Weak first

[TobyTwo]

To the forgiving,

First time poster,

I'm 31 6'2" 305lbs. 42" waist with 26% bf (power lifter body). My main goal is to get down to 15% - 10% bf or lower. I've been in a caloric deficit (-20%) for 8 months now with one or two cheat meals a week, I've been lifting heavy half my life I've come down 6% bf and 55lbs.

I'm completely aware of the amount of crap a beginner can ask so I've studied and retained as much as I can before i go and post something stupid.

I'm wanting to start my first cycle with just a minimal amount of gear and just see how I react. I know everyone is a little different so tell me what you think, please pardon my lack of terminology and layout.

8 week cycle
Stromba (winstrol)- 50 mg's every day
Deca - 200 mg's every 5 day's
Nolvadex - 20mg's every day

Along with a well balanced, callorie deficit diet. Well rounded training weight program, 5 cardio days ( mix HITT-steady pace 45min), decent sleep, and support from you all.

Thank you for any response.

 

[BlumpkinKing]

I love a good cut. Did i miss it ? Are you going to run test with winny and deca? or are you on TRT?

 

[TobyTwo]

No, no test or replacement. Just the three

 

[BlumpkinKing]

No, no test or replacement. Just the three

i would really consider test when running any of those together. Something like 500mg test week 1-10 drop the deca. Then winstrol last 4 weeks so solidly your gains. Winstrol without test will make you really lethargic and probably kill your libido. Same with deca without test.

 

[infraredline]

No, no test or replacement. Just the three

I would highly advise running test at a low dosage, like 100-150mg a week (just a trt dosage)

 

[TobyTwo]

i would really consider test when running any of those together. Something like 500mg test week 1-10 drop the deca. Then winstrol last 4 weeks so solidly your gains. Winstrol without test will make you really lethargic and probably kill your libido. Same with deca without test.

Thank you for the response. Again forgive me for the layout but you recommend:

500mg test/week 1-10
Deca 1-6
Wynny 6-8

I think that's your rec right?

I've heard the libido will drop if I don't supp with test. Which would you recommend?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Also if test is out of the question right now and you want to wait on AAS. Try ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin.2 to 3 times a day. Works wonders.

 

[TobyTwo]

I would highly advise running test at a low dosage, like 100-150mg a week (just a trt dosage)

Thank you infraredline,

Is their a test u would recommend?
And what do you mean by just a trt dosage?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Test. 500mg 1-10, I like 14 weeks buts that's me.

No deca.

Calorie deficit

Last 4 weeks winstrol . Helps preserve gains.

I also would add a kicker , first 4 weeks, mild one. Like T-bol

 

[TobyTwo]

Test. 500mg 1-10, I like 14 weeks buts that's me.

No deca.

Calorie deficit

Last 4 weeks winstrol . Helps preserve gains.

I also would add a kicker , first 4 weeks, mild one. Like T-bol

And you think this is a good idea for fat loss with the caffeine, efed, aspirin? Why aspirin if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Aspirin helps to inhibit lipogenesis by blocking the incorporation of acetate into fatty acids.

 

[TobyTwo]

Seems I have more reading to do. Thank you for the help. Is their a type of test u recommend?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Seems I have more reading to do. Thank you for the help. Is their a type of test u recommend?

test-e for sure

 

[TobyTwo]

Thank you blumkinking for you advice it is much appreciated. I'm wondering if I do everything right with this stack what kind of bf loss I can expect?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Thank you blumkinking for you advice it is much appreciated. I'm wondering if I do everything right with this stack what kind of bf loss I can expect?

anabolics are all diet and training dependent .

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Thank you blumkinking for you advice it is much appreciated. I'm wondering if I do everything right with this stack what kind of bf loss I can expect?

everyone reacts different

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Personally I wouldn't mess around with AAS at your body fat. But that's me. If you don't have your diet and training down. You will put the fat right back on in a few short weeks.

 

[fueledpassion]

I say Test and Mast if u can get it. A 1:2 ratio of Test to Mast will cut u up ever so nicely and its easy on sides. For instance,

300mg Test
600mg Mast

Run em 10-12 weeks together. U dont need an AI with it. You could also run HCG @ 250mcg x 2 per week.

Nolva for 6 weeks after T starts to clear.

 

[fueledpassion]

Personally I wouldn't mess around with AAS at your body fat. But that's me. If you don't have your diet and training down. You will put the fat right back on in a few short weeks.

This too, actually. Surely he can get to sub 20% BF on his own.

 

[TobyTwo]

everyone reacts different

I agree to the tenth degree! That's why I wanted to start out weak, watch reaction, and go up from their. I'm sure I have naturally high test. I grow easily just with a good diet no brag. I also store fat like a ****ing fat fatty.

It's been a tough 8 months watching every little thing that I eat and I'm looking to speed this **** up without blowing my heart out of my chest.

 

[fueledpassion]

This too, actually. Surely he can get to sub 20% BF on his own.

Heck, why not just an EC + Green Tea stack? That'd work better at burning up fat I think.

 

[TobyTwo]

Heck, why not just an EC + Green Tea stack? That'd work better at burning up fat I think.

Thank you fueledpassion,
I've always been told more muscle = more calories burned. AAS may not be the right method for me but I'm looking for the quick way to the goal along with my training ang strict diet. Maybe I'm not considering the right options. Thank you for the advice

 

[fueledpassion]

Thank you fueledpassion,
I've always been told more muscle = more calories burned. AAS may not be the right method for me but I'm looking for the quick way to the goal along with my training ang strict diet. Maybe I'm not considering the right options. Thank you for the advice

As u get leaner, it gets easier to build and maintain lean tissue and harder to get fat.

Of I had to choose which situation to be in, it'd always be the leaner of the two.

 

[TobyTwo]

Thank you for the advise.

 

[Matthersby]

Personally I wouldn't mess around with AAS at your body fat. But that's me. If you don't have your diet and training down. You will put the fat right back on in a few short weeks.

This too, actually. Surely he can get to sub 20% BF on his own.

<20%, then a test only cycle would be a little more pleasant to drop a few more % and hold onto muscle.

 

[TobyTwo]

<20%, then a test only cycle would be a little more pleasant to drop a few more % and hold onto muscle.

Thank you matthersby,
Do you have a recommendation for the test to use and the dosage?

 

[Matthersby]

Heck, why not just an EC + Green Tea stack?

^this^
Then at <20 I would say prop @ 100 every other day (350/week) cut like mad, learn to reeeaaaly manipulate carbs and keep protein high. You should be able to drop several % and hold onto muscle. While I agree, its unpleasant and unsafe to cut at high bf%, once at a safe range, its the only way to drop bf and salvage muscle. I don't consider cutting fat without aas.

 

[Matthersby]

^this^
Then at <20 I would say prop @ 100 every other day (350/week) cut like mad, learn to reeeaaaly manipulate carbs and keep protein high. You should be able to drop several % and hold onto muscle. While I agree, its unpleasant and unsafe to cut at high bf%, once at a safe range, its the only way to drop bf and salvage muscle. I don't consider cutting fat without aas.

Add FueledPassion to friends or just cyberstalk him. He knows volumes on how to drop bodyfat properly. Another thing not mentioned is medium chain triglycerides(mct's) when used correctly can aid in fat loss tremendously.

 

[fueledpassion]

Add FueledPassion to friends or just cyberstalk him. He knows volumes on how to drop bodyfat properly. Another thing not mentioned is medium chain triglycerides(mct's) when used correctly can aid in fat loss tremendously.

Yeah it makes me sad that my tummy cant handle them anymore. I used to eat 800kcals of that stuff daily. Sucks now that I can hardly tolerate 200-300kcals of it now...

 

[Mystere3]

Cut to 20% then consider AAS.

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Heck, why not just an EC + Green Tea stack? That'd work better at burning up fat I think.

i liked this . I also like ephedrine/caffeine/ aspirin . Melted fat off my stomach

 

[Mystere3]

Don't take aspirin with AAS. It's hepatically metabolized. Also it can inhibit muscle growth.

 

[TobyTwo]

Add FueledPassion to friends or just cyberstalk him. He knows volumes on how to drop bodyfat properly. Another thing not mentioned is medium chain triglycerides(mct's) when used correctly can aid in fat loss tremendously.

Thank you matthersby,

I fell as though I can control the carbs fairly well (270g/day) and I will add fueledpassion as a friend you guys have helped so much. I have a ton to learn. What about timing and dosage with either the EC + green tea or the MCt's method? Before cardio or weights, morning or afternoon?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Don't take aspirin with AAS. It's hepatically metabolized. Also it can inhibit muscle growth.

not with AAS.

 

[TobyTwo]

Don't take aspirin with AAS. It's hepatically metabolized. Also it can inhibit muscle growth.

Thank you mystere3,

Bumpkinking spoke of this and def taken to heart!

 

[fueledpassion]

Thank you matthersby,

I fell as though I can control the carbs fairly well (270g/day) and I will add fueledpassion as a friend you guys have helped so much. I have a ton to learn. What about timing and dosage with either the EC + green tea or the MCt's method? Before cardio or weights, morning or afternoon?

EC is every 4-6 hours although the latest I'd dose them is around 4-5pm. 3 doses per day max.

Ephedrine @ 12.5-37.5mg
Caffeine @ 100 - 200mg

Green tea extract as directed on bottle. Make sure u get the ones with lots of Catechins. Catechins are even more effective than caffeine at burning fat.

MCT's, start at half a tbsp (which is 50kcals) at each meal and work ur way up. As u increase in MCT consumption, decrease ur carbs accordingly.

 

[BlumpkinKing]

EC is every 4-6 hours although the latest I'd dose them is around 4-5pm. 3 doses per day max. Ephedrine @ 12.5-37.5mg Caffeine @ 100 - 200mg Green tea extract as directed on bottle. Make sure u get the ones with lots of Catechins. Catechins are even more effective than caffeine at burning fat. MCT's, start at half a tbsp (which is 50kcals) at each meal and work ur way up. As u increase in MCT consumption, decrease ur carbs accordingly.

this^^^

 

[TobyTwo]

EC is every 4-6 hours although the latest I'd dose them is around 4-5pm. 3 doses per day max.

Ephedrine @ 12.5-37.5mg
Caffeine @ 100 - 200mg

Green tea extract as directed on bottle. Make sure u get the ones with lots of Catechins. Catechins are even more effective than caffeine at burning fat.

MCT's, start at half a tbsp (which is 50kcals) at each meal and work ur way up. As u increase in MCT consumption, decrease ur carbs accordingly.

Man! Thank you so much guys!

Is there a brand of green tea u recommend?

Another thing I read is that water is the most important thing in fat loss and some recommend constant sipping and other just recommend a gallon a day (which I can drink in a half a day sometimes). Do you believe this is necessary?

 

[BlumpkinKing]

Man! Thank you so much guys! Is there a brand of green tea u recommend? Another thing I read is that water is the most important thing in fat loss and some recommend constant sipping and other just recommend a gallon a day (which I can drink in a half a day sometimes). Do you believe this is necessary?

SNS, yes water all the time . Gallon minimum a day.

 

[fueledpassion]

The more water u drink the less you hold.

Funny how to body works.

I'd recommend getting ur green tea in bulk. Way more transparent about their % breakdown and fairly cheap too.

Purebulk.com

And drink ur water ice cold too.

 

[Mystere3]

I like now foods green tea but there are lots of sources.

 

[Matthersby]

The more water u drink the less you hold.

And drink ur water ice cold too.

Beat me to it again. I also brew a whole box(80 t-bags) and mix it a 1/2 cup of it into each cold water I drink all day.

 

[TobyTwo]

The more water u drink the less you hold.

Funny how to body works.

I'd recommend getting ur green tea in bulk. Way more transparent about their % breakdown and fairly cheap too.

Purebulk.com

And drink ur water ice cold too.

Thank you fueledpassion,

I'm sorry to sound ignorant I looked at the sight and their were three options. Caffeine, egcg, and polyphenols. And what did u mean by transparent in their % breakdown?

 

[TobyTwo]

looks like its water to the rescue again. is there anything that this stuff cant fix? lol

op, personally i'd drop the cheat meals unless you think you cant live without them. and 270g of carbs aint that many for someone your size but you may get better results by going lower. i have to really get the carbs down before i start burning fat efficiently. i cant eat any sugar hardly either. only complex carbs.

Thank you rh2012,

I have thought about bringing the cheat meals to one a week. They are my sanity saver ( it's tough being a fat boy).

 

[Blergs]

To the forgiving,

First time poster,

I'm 31 6'2" 305lbs. 42" waist with 26% bf (power lifter body). My main goal is to get down to 15% - 10% bf or lower. I've been in a caloric deficit (-20%) for 8 months now with one or two cheat meals a week, I've been lifting heavy half my life I've come down 6% bf and 55lbs.

I'm completely aware of the amount of crap a beginner can ask so I've studied and retained as much as I can before i go and post something stupid.

I'm wanting to start my first cycle with just a minimal amount of gear and just see how I react. I know everyone is a little different so tell me what you think, please pardon my lack of terminology and layout.

8 week cycle
Stromba (winstrol)- 50 mg's every day
Deca - 200 mg's every 5 day's
Nolvadex - 20mg's every day

Along with a well balanced, callorie deficit diet. Well rounded training weight program, 5 cardio days ( mix HITT-steady pace 45min), decent sleep, and support from you all.

Thank you for any response.

You havent done nearly enough research if you came up with that cycle.
|* no test
* winny is harsh
*no test
*deca w/o test
*no test
*no test
*no test

^^ This is your issue.

i rec:

12-14 weeks of 400-500mg teste or cyp every week
wk1-15 AI Dex 0.5mg eod
wk16-20 PCT: 30-50mg clomid + 20mg tamox every day

Done and simple

 

[TobyTwo]

You havent done nearly enough research if you came up with that cycle.
|* no test
* winny is harsh
*no test
*deca w/o test
*no test
*no test
*no test

^^ This is your issue.

i rec:

12-14 weeks of 400-500mg teste or cyp every week
wk1-15 AI Dex 0.5mg eod
wk16-20 PCT: 30-50mg clomid + 20mg tamox every day

Done and simple

Thank you blergs,

I agree with you 100% I need make myself more knowledgeable. I appreciate the advice.

 

[fueledpassion]

Whatever u do, dont starve urself. Find out what ur maintenance calories are and eat 500kcals below it. No need gettin impatient with fat loss lest u might lose muscle mass and hurt ur immune system.

The Egcg or whatever its called is the green tea extract u want. The caffeine-extracted one, which only has like 5mg caffeine per serving. It should show like 387mg catechins per serving or something like that. Since ur already gonna take caffeine tabs with Ephedrine there is no need for extra. I'd keep caffeine limited to 200mg in the am and 100mg throughout the day per dose at first. Too much raises cortisol levels and goes against ur efforts.

And remember if u decide to go with Test in the future run it with Masteron because the DHT keeps ur libido and energy high and estrogen low without trashing ur lipid profile.

 

[TobyTwo]

Whatever u do, dont starve urself. Find out what ur maintenance calories are and eat 500kcals below it. No need gettin impatient with fat loss lest u might lose muscle mass and hurt ur immune system.

The Egcg or whatever its called is the green tea extract u want. The caffeine-extracted one, which only has like 5mg caffeine per serving. It should show like 387mg catechins per serving or something like that. Since ur already gonna take caffeine tabs with Ephedrine there is no need for extra. I'd keep caffeine limited to 200mg in the am and 100mg throughout the day per dose at first. Too much raises cortisol levels and goes against ur efforts.

And remember if u decide to go with Test in the future run it with Masteron because the DHT keeps ur libido and energy high and estrogen low without trashing ur lipid profile.

Awesome advice fueledpassion, Thank you for your help.

I will maintain patience throughout the process and its great to have advice from every one of you all.

 

[superbeast668]

I'm sick of seeing this bull about. "No test no cycle". At his body fat deca would be perfect for 14 weeks. I'm chugging along just fine at 300mg e5d of JUST DECA. Pounded the hell out of my girl the last few nights in a row too so don't drop the deca prick mumbojumbo.

Since deca aromatizes at 20% the rate of test and body fat doesn't cause more e2 to aromatize it's literally perfect. If the anabolic bible and dr llewellyn suggest it or lay it out in their books I say one would be fine to follow it.

However op your better off hiring a nutrition coach and hitting up some ECA or ECY. A coach will get you lean quick. Look at bossbody.net they always do good work. There's a few other guys around here that may help you as well. The results from proper nutrition are far greater than the results from gear.

 

[BlumpkinKing]

"This^

Nandrolone decanoate is often combined with other steroids for an enhanced effect. A combination of 200-400 mg/week of nandrolone decanoate and 10-20 mg daily of Winstrol®, for example, is noted to greatly enhance the look of muscularity and definition when dieting/cutting"

Excerpt From: Llewellyn, William. "Anabolics."