ALRI's new phermone...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntdawg
    Not at all...When you describe this products as they do, they basically say, "hey, look, it's that one we heard about in the news, better buy now before it's gets banned!" Promoting the product in this manner with certainly raise eyebrows (the wrong kind). No doubt, then, it'll get investigated. It's a no-win situation to create an ad of that nature, for the product.
    If your saying it's like the media wanting to report a story first, no matter the outcome, then you are correct. It's all about money and pretty apparent that website doesn't care about the industry or it's customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCPreki11
    There's a thread on bb.com about this same ordeal. PA tested the product to find out it's structure. He said it was what he though it was all along and dropped several hints before he tested it, take it for what you will.
    That's weird. The "media" is claiming PA to be the "designer" of DMT, along with THG for Balco. The article even stated that DMT has had published literature on it since the 60's, but PA brought it out. Something is wrong.


    Here's a link and an article: The link from size actuallt ID's PA

    PA in the news...again
    Anti-doping agency finds new designer steroid

    var byString = ""; var sourceString = "Canadian Press"; if ((sourceString != "") && (byString != "")) { document.write(byString + ", "); } else { document.write(byString); } Canadian Press

    MONTREAL — The World Anti-Doping Agency hopes it is a step ahead of athletes who cheat by uncovering a new designer steroid, dubbed Desoxy-Methyl Testosterone or DMT.

    Olivier Rabin, director of science at WADA, said Tuesday that Canada Customs seized a bottle of the drug at the Canada-U.S. border. An anonymous e-mailer alerted WADA to the seizure and they worked with Canada Customs scientists to determine it was a new form of performance-enhancing steroid.

    "We believe that this one, DMT, hasn't been used and that we are, in this case, ahead of the dopers," said Rabin.

    Christiane Ayotte, director of the WADA-accredited doping lab in Montreal, said re-tests of stored urine samples taken from athletes in recent months showed no trace of the drug and she believes it was caught before it went into general circulation.

    Further tests are underway to determine the exact properties and effects of DMT, but the structure of the molecule has been established and dope-testing centres around the world have been alerted to the drug, she added.

    There are no plans yet to re-test samples taken at the 2004 Olympics in Athens, she said.

    Rabin said re-tests may be done if further new drugs are discovered.

    DMT appears to be a new generation of steroid from THG, the muscle-building compound discovered in 2003 that sparked a federal inquiry in the United States into the Balco Laboratory, the suspected source of the drug.

    "It has been modified obviously to make it undetectable," Ayotte said, although she added it probably would have been caught by drug testers because of its methyl testosterone signature.

    However, the complexity of the drug and the process needed to produce it suggests it was made by trained chemists with access to sophisticated lab facilities.

    "THG was a modification by a simple, one-step chemical reaction," she said. "But in this case, it's a several-step synthesis and they have used chemical reactions that are very dangerous.

    "What it tells us is that we have a chemist with a very serious organic chemistry background helping the people who distribute steroids to athletes."

    She said it was not known who produced the drug or who in Canada was to receive it, adding it was under investigation by Canadian and U.S. authorities.

    "If that person is an athlete or coach, it is a doping-related offence," she said.

    She also could not name the whistle blower who alerted WADA.

    Dope-testing centres are constantly on alert for new substances that try to get past their equipment. Ayotte said her lab was close to identifying at least one other new designer steroid, but gave no details.

    Ayotte said use of designer drugs was not epidemic, but that publicity about them, particularly the THG case, made them attractive in some athletic circles.

    "It's not an epidemic is terms of the number of athletes using those drugs, but it is a process we see more now," she said.

    THG was discovered after an anonymous track and field coach told the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that several top athletes were using the drug. Urine samples at the U.S. national championships were re-tested and several athletes came up positive.

    A grand jury investigated Balco for alleged tax evasion and subpoenaed more than forty athletes who were Balco clients, including track stars Marion Jones and Tim Montgomery and baseball slugger Barry Bonds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by goyard
    Lean One, not that I am doubting u but PA said on the other board that this compound wouldnt be good too stack with SD. I guess thats just one mans opinion but he is pretty knowledgeable when it comes too this stuff.
    First of all, I'm not Lean One, so I won't speak for him. Second, you might be surprised about PA if you really knew, but that's not my point either. You could stack anything with SD. Yes, other orals too. I CAN say this. Nobody knows SD like I do, and I'm not scared to responsibly stack orals. Been doin' it for decades bro, and while I will not suggest it on this board for respect of the unspoken generalization on this, I will say that using any form of steroids is dangerous, period. So don't even go there if that's your concern. SD is designed to be the cleanest component of just about any stack you could think of. It is well suited to add to a dirty androgen like this new 'pheromone' or DHT or MDHT, because it can make a low grade stack more anabolic without adding sides. It generates no overlapping metabolites and it's androgenic contribution is negligible in 99% of the cases. That being said, don't get too excited about this new compound. It's not all that. I think most of you guys are in for a big surprise once you try it, and may be a little disappointed. But, if you can deal with the sides, it is relatively strong. I could not take over 20mg because it was just too androgenic for my liking, but it does have it's place.
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    thanks for another opinion dr.d, I respect your opinion as well.
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    Dr.D do you Patrick Arnold personally? I am just wondering because I find him to be an interesting individual, and a pretty nice guy. He has helped me out in my research on certain supplements (in regards to method of action). I don't know him personally, just have had discussions with him through PM on BB.com. If you do know him please share your thoughts on him (unless you would prefer to keep them to yourself). I have high respect for both of you, as you really both know your stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    Don't put words in my mouth. I never recomended it. I simply answered his question. The point I was getting at was more about the versatility of Superdrol than wether or not I think it should be stacked with this "pheromone". Honestly, I really don't care about this product and I'm in the same boat as those who think it's a little recless and iresponsible.
    I asked the original qeustion and I am no newb to this scene, I know all about stacking 2 methyls, and I like Lean One do not recommend it, But I do believe with proper precautions you can certainly stack 2 mild methyls and be O.k. (for example mohn and sd). I don't do anything I don't fully research. I was only asking because I heard that this is supposed to be a sort of dry compound, and thought it may be a nice stack with sd based on overall results.

    BTW thanks for the response Lean One and Dr. D, Great post!

    Just wanted to clear that up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickW
    Dr.D do you Patrick Arnold personally? I am just wondering because I find him to be an interesting individual, and a pretty nice guy. He has helped me out in my research on certain supplements (in regards to method of action). I don't know him personally, just have had discussions with him through PM on BB.com. If you do know him please share your thoughts on him (unless you would prefer to keep them to yourself). I have high respect for both of you, as you really both know your stuff.
    I do not know him personally, but my impression of him is that he is kind of a smart ass, and not as knowledgable as I had expected he might be, but it's not my conclusion, only a first impression. I could be wrong, he may be a great guy once you really know him. PA and I got into it one time over at BB. I think the Superdrol threads were mysteriously "deleted", but I may have a witness here that could speak up and verify my impression. I was very polite and respectful, but he just blew me off, and I didn't like that. However, he's not here to defend himself, so that's as much as I care to elaborate. I am Phat Daddy over there, but I don't know if those posts still exists.
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    Well say goodbye to this guys ALRI is pulling the plug on this product to save their asses.
    From the ALRIndustries.com website:

    "Applied Lifescience Research Industries, Inc. (ALRI) is appalled at the misrepresentation of Ergomax LMG as an anabolic-androgenic steroid (i.e. controlled substance).

    "We have voluntarily removed this product from our product line to avoid further animosity on the supplement industry by government bodies and authorities.

    "We feel this is the only ethical approach given the current situation to avoid discrimination against other and future ALRI products.

    "We do have a compound that will replace Ergomax LMG that our attorneys assure us will be legal for some time to come."
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I do not know him personally, but my impression of him is that he is kind of a smart ass, and not as knowledgable as I had expected he might be, but it's not my conclusion, only a first impression. I could be wrong, he may be a great guy once you really know him. PA and I got into it one time over at BB. I think the Superdrol threads were mysteriously "deleted", but I may have a witness here that could speak up and verify my impression. I was very polite and respectful, but he just blew me off, and I didn't like that. However, he's not here to defend himself, so that's as much as I care to elaborate. I am Phat Daddy over there, but I don't know if those posts still exists.
    I can vouch for ya big guy. Pa was acting like a total ass, like he seems to do time to time. The good doctor put his ass in place though, didn't you P Diddy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanM
    Well say goodbye to this guys ALRI is pulling the plug on this product to save their asses.
    From the ALRIndustries.com website:

    "Applied Lifescience Research Industries, Inc. (ALRI) is appalled at the misrepresentation of Ergomax LMG as an anabolic-androgenic steroid (i.e. controlled substance).

    "We have voluntarily removed this product from our product line to avoid further animosity on the supplement industry by government bodies and authorities.

    "We feel this is the only ethical approach given the current situation to avoid discrimination against other and future ALRI products.

    "We do have a compound that will replace Ergomax LMG that our attorneys assure us will be legal for some time to come."
    Well well. What do ya know?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanM
    Well say goodbye to this guys ALRI is pulling the plug on this product to save their asses.
    From the ALRIndustries.com website:

    "Applied Lifescience Research Industries, Inc. (ALRI) is appalled at the misrepresentation of Ergomax LMG as an anabolic-androgenic steroid (i.e. controlled substance).
    I'd really like to know the truth here.

    I guess PA can release the structure of the compound now.
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    may this wild-ass mystery-fiasco circus be a lesson. If, in the future, we are fortunate to stumble across the likes of such novel compounds, might we all be better served keeping the rhetoric down. The governmental/judicial system is not your friend here, so why give them a reason to look around? With the kind of pub this stuff generated 2 weeks into the ban era, it's a small wonder why it's about to go away...
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    so is it definetly what sledge was gonna release? if so that *ucking blows for him. that could have been a cash cow come summer time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by milwood
    may this wild-ass mystery-fiasco circus be a lesson. If, in the future, we are fortunate to stumble across the likes of such novel compounds, might we all be better served keeping the rhetoric down. The governmental/judicial system is not your friend here, so why give them a reason to look around? With the kind of pub this stuff generated 2 weeks into the ban era, it's a small wonder why it's about to go away...
    This may be my first post, but this definately speakes volumes. I thought it was rather obvious that it wouldn't be out for too long, especially forums like bb.com where hype is unreal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryansm
    I can vouch for ya big guy. Pa was acting like a total ass, like he seems to do time to time. The good doctor put his ass in place though, didn't you P Diddy.
    Thanks Ryan! I'm glan someone remembers and agrees that I was fair to him.

    As for the pheromone, don't ask too many open questions from now on. I already told you guys once. In the Post Ban Era, it's all about who you trust. The less you know, the less the gov knows, so really try and control the questions and gossip. If you trust DS, I promise you that Sldg will find a way to convey the info you need without ruining the marketability of the product. I have a PM too and a DS address were you can contact me drd@designersupps.com , so if you want cool new products in the future, please control the hype! If not, nothing is going to make it in, and creatine will even be regulated at some point. Be smart about this and remain patient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Thanks Ryan! I'm glan someone remembers and agrees that I was fair to him.

    As for the pheromone, don't ask too many open questions from now on. I already told you guys once. In the Post Ban Era, it's all about who you trust. The less you know, the less the gov knows, so really try and control the questions and gossip. If you trust DS, I promise you that Sldg will find a way to convey the info you need without ruining the marketability of the product. I have a PM too and a DS address were you can contact me drd@designersupps.com , so if you want cool new products in the future, please control the hype! If not, nothing is going to make it in, and creatine will even be regulated at some point. Be smart about this and remain patient.
    Words to live by...
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    thanks dr.d, you really put things in a new light. i luv this board, I forget how I came across it but I rarely visit bb.com anymore. I didnt know what I was missing all these years. I have alot too learn, but I think If I keep my eyes and ears open here, I will be headed in the right direction.
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    Bump

    Everyone should read DR. D's last post. I whole-heartedly believe what he said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I do not know him personally, but my impression of him is that he is kind of a smart ass, and not as knowledgable as I had expected he might be, but it's not my conclusion, only a first impression. I could be wrong, he may be a great guy once you really know him. PA and I got into it one time over at BB. I think the Superdrol threads were mysteriously "deleted", but I may have a witness here that could speak up and verify my impression. I was very polite and respectful, but he just blew me off, and I didn't like that. However, he's not here to defend himself, so that's as much as I care to elaborate. I am Phat Daddy over there, but I don't know if those posts still exists.
    Dr.D why don't you go on bb and talk with pa on this issue on the ergomax thread. Also where did you get your knowledge exactly from ? are you also chemist/ biologist/bio chemist or anything like that or a user plus book nerd? just cusrious, thanks.
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    If you can't see it by now then you are blind. People in the supplement industry work against one another and I do not mean via competition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    If you can't see it by now then you are blind. People in the supplement industry work against one another and I do not mean via competition.
    Unfortunately, this is very true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I do not know him personally, but my impression of him is that he is kind of a smart ass, and not as knowledgable as I had expected he might be, but it's not my conclusion, only a first impression. I could be wrong, he may be a great guy once you really know him. PA and I got into it one time over at BB. I think the Superdrol threads were mysteriously "deleted", but I may have a witness here that could speak up and verify my impression. I was very polite and respectful, but he just blew me off, and I didn't like that. However, he's not here to defend himself, so that's as much as I care to elaborate. I am Phat Daddy over there, but I don't know if those posts still exists.
    Thats cool. I have seen him act pretty immature over there, but of course every supplement company owner (except for DS, don't know if Custom is over there) has been like that at one time or another on that board. I don't know him personally either, but he did help me out, and was trying to get a better handle on what kind of person he was. Do you think he is really behind all of the designer steroids that have been coming out (i.e. THG, DMT)?
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    It's a known fact that he was behind THG. You can draw your own conclusions from there.
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    oh, I thought he was only implicated in it by Victor Conte. I didn't know they had come out with conclusive evidence. I guess I am not really surprised since he came out with the first designer nor steroid in the 90's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I do not know him personally, but my impression of him is that he is kind of a smart ass, and not as knowledgable as I had expected he might be, but it's not my conclusion, only a first impression. I could be wrong, he may be a great guy once you really know him. PA and I got into it one time over at BB. I think the Superdrol threads were mysteriously "deleted", but I may have a witness here that could speak up and verify my impression. I was very polite and respectful, but he just blew me off, and I didn't like that. However, he's not here to defend himself, so that's as much as I care to elaborate. I am Phat Daddy over there, but I don't know if those posts still exists.
    I talked to PA in person at the Olympia, for quite a while. He was very polite and approachable, answered a lot of questions i had. Yes, he is a smart ass on the internet, but hes also a smart person (who likes to bust balls). I'm sure most people here would get along with him fine in person. I am surprised he's never posted here (as far as i know), he should be a friend of AM not an adversary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvtrojan
    I am surprised he's never posted here (as far as i know), he should be a friend of AM not an adversary.
    He is banned. He was a member here for about 2 days when he starting posting incorrect information about IGF-LR3/MuscleResearch and refused to accept critique. Unfortunately, he creates the animosity that many have against him with his elitist attitude that he portrays via the internet.
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    [QUOTE=size]He is banned. He was a member here for about 2 days when he starting posting incorrect information about IGF-LR3/MuscleResearch and refused to accept critique. QUOTE]

    Wow, didnt know that. 2 days? Thats pretty damn fast
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    It is a shame. He often has very good information to present.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicosico
    Dr.D why don't you go on bb and talk with pa on this issue on the ergomax thread. Also where did you get your knowledge exactly from ? are you also chemist/ biologist/bio chemist or anything like that or a user plus book nerd? just cusrious, thanks.
    Yeah, I'm all of the above. Biophysicist/chemist/nerd/user/you name it.. I know what I know, and I've had some mild involvement and experience with this compound. I would engage PA on the thread if it could yield fruit, but what good could occur? He has a know-it-all attitude and the last time I told him better, he totally played it off. I'm all about learning and teaching. Why go over there and mess around with a bunch of 20 somethings that just wanna flame each other and brag about their 4000 posts? Bros here are different, and even the younger ones are cool. It would serve no purpose to post there. He can't tell me anything I don't already know about it chemically or technically, and if I could offer him any info, I doubt he'd listen anyway. Thanks for the suggestion though (blessed be the peace makers.) Maybe one day I'll know him on a better level, but I just don't trust him right now until I find out his exact involvement. But, if he comes after Sldg next trying to **** DS, I'll will give him a battle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Yeah, I'm all of the above. Biophysicist/chemist/nerd/user/you name it.. I know what I know, and I've had some mild involvement and experience with this compound. I would engage PA on the thread if it could yield fruit, but what good could occur? He has a know-it-all attitude and the last time I told him better, he totally played it off. I'm all about learning and teaching. Why go over there and mess around with a bunch of 20 somethings that just wanna flame each other and brag about their 4000 posts? Bros here are different, and even the younger ones are cool. It would serve no purpose to post there. He can't tell me anything I don't already know about it chemically or technically, and if I could offer him any info, I doubt he'd listen anyway. Thanks for the suggestion though (blessed be the peace makers.) Maybe one day I'll know him on a better level, but I just don't trust him right now until I find out his exact involvement. But, if he comes after Sldg next trying to **** DS, I'll will give him a battle.
    ok now that i got 2 bottles of this stuff and im about to run this for 6 or 8 weeks alone or mayb witrh creatine......Dr.D do u suggest a pct after ward?? what kind?? and would u run it at the recommended dose of 10 mg per day, or would u go with 20 mg ...im 242 lb
    since noone has tried this yet (to my knowledge) im asking for poinions .....do keep in mind that im going right into SD cycle after this......but i figured id try this first for the sake of this thread.
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    Here's a link to a a guys cycle thread at BB.com

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hlight=ergomax

    PCT is a definate, especially at 8 weeks. Also take liver protectants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polish_Oak
    ok now that i got 2 bottles of this stuff and im about to run this for 6 or 8 weeks alone or mayb witrh creatine......Dr.D do u suggest a pct after ward?? what kind?? and would u run it at the recommended dose of 10 mg per day, or would u go with 20 mg ...im 242 lb
    since noone has tried this yet (to my knowledge) im asking for poinions .....do keep in mind that im going right into SD cycle after this......but i figured id try this first for the sake of this thread.
    At your weight, I'd do 20-30mg. I weigh 215 and 20mg was the most I could handle (acne from hell) but if you can take it, I'm intrested to see what 30 could do. Still start at 10 and up it 10mg more every 5 to 7 days. Stop when it feels right or sides start to become exessive. It's very androgenic, but your mood is good on it. No hypertension or aggression at all for me, I felt pretty good. Too bad it's so harsh on the skin, but do a real PCT or at least an AI the last few weeks, gyno can be an issue, though it makes no sense so I'm not sure why, and shut down is about medium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by size
    It is a shame. He often has very good information to present.
    Any chance the ban will ever be lifted? His posts are amusing if nothing else and most of us here can see through his bs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    At your weight, I'd do 20-30mg. I weigh 215 and 20mg was the most I could handle (acne from hell) but if you can take it, I'm intrested to see what 30 could do. Still start at 10 and up it 10mg more every 5 to 7 days. Stop when it feels right or sides start to become exessive. It's very androgenic, but your mood is good on it. No hypertension or aggression at all for me, I felt pretty good. Too bad it's so harsh on the skin, but do a real PCT or at least an AI the last few weeks, gyno can be an issue, though it makes no sense so I'm not sure why, and shut down is about medium.
    Thanx for the quick reply ...u too D-town thanx for the link....
    Dr.D what kinda gains u got from it ?? and would it be smart to do this before the SD cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz
    Any chance the ban will ever be lifted? His posts are amusing if nothing else and most of us here can see through his bs.
    Doubtful.
    Last edited by size; 02-17-2005 at 12:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polish_Oak
    Thanx for the quick reply ...u too D-town thanx for the link....
    Dr.D what kinda gains u got from it ?? and would it be smart to do this before the SD cycle?
    I wouldn't given the fact that it is methylated. You really don't want run any methylated products for more than 8 weeks. It would stack nice with Superdrol but then you're running two methylated products simulateneously which is a no-no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    ...mess around with a bunch of 20 somethings that just wanna flame each other and brag about their 4000 posts?
    Actually, they are mostly teens. There are very few people there who actually have any valuable input. Like someone above said, I too barely post there anymore. And bb.com doesn't even have good prices. I have done research there for over a year, then I buy stuff at other sites. Conversely, I donated to this board simply for the service it provides.
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    Based upon the unknown toxicity of this compound, what would be a good stack with it? Or should it just be used as a stand alone?

    One more thing, there is alot to read between the lines with ALRI pulling this product, one thing came to mind that I have not seen any one comment about is the possibility that they hijacked the SD compound, had some made and now they are just out of it? In a previous reply in this thread they said that all but 15% of the stock had been already been pre sold to distributors. With the legality of SD still a little under the radar it seems plausible? Any thoughts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polish_Oak
    ok now that i got 2 bottles of this stuff and im about to run this for 6 or 8 weeks alone or mayb witrh creatine......Dr.D do u suggest a pct after ward?? what kind?? and would u run it at the recommended dose of 10 mg per day, or would u go with 20 mg ...im 242 lb
    since noone has tried this yet (to my knowledge) im asking for poinions .....do keep in mind that im going right into SD cycle after this......but i figured id try this first for the sake of this thread.
    Polish, I have been using it now for over a week and I have log in this section somewhere. I started at the 10 mg twice a day, however I have been on it a week and just increased the dose. I started really noticing it yesterday but now I am going to go up to 20 mg twice day. Dr. D is right, it is hard on the skin, but that's all I notice right now. No prostate or gyno issues as of yet.
    knuckles
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    Its not SD. I have used both and for me the Ergomax was very different.


    Mr.50
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