orally > transdermally for fina !

[sicosico]

Ok , of course nothing beat injections, but many do the fina conversions wrong, get crappy kits, get a killing pain injections, and it is a hassle with ED very painful injections, which is not an issue with many other compounds, but even though with that injection beats all.

the question is does fina have higher levels of absorbtions orally than (trandermally about 20%) ? the big cat, pa, and others agree on that. because of the accetate it should be higher orally ( about 30 % ) than transdermally ! did anyone try it, not that i want to ! but seems very interesting.

also interesting thing to check:

CHERRY, C.P. (1986). Photomicrography addendum to histopathology
report No. RSL/663. Oral administration of trenbolone acetate to
growing pigs over a 14-week period. Unpublished report No. RSL
663/86476 from Huntingdon Research Centre Ltd., Huntingdon,
Cambridgeshire, England. Submitted to WHO by UCLAF, 75020 Paris,
France.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catfinaplix.htm
" One may also want to note that finaplix has decent oral availability as well. In fact, because of the acetate ester its transdermal availability is less than it would be for a pure steroid, so actually its oral potential is greater than its transdermal potential. When taking oral fina, to account for the difference in availability between this and injectable, one would have to consume 240 mg ( 3 times 4 pellets) every day for 6-8 weeks. But it does work and it saves you the time and cost of making a transdermal."
__________________ :think:

 

[Skye]

Yes,you can eat the pellets. should be at least twice a day. absorsion is around 25%. . But it doesn't save on the cost when you consider it take 4 times as much fina as injecting. but it does beat out transdermals unless you strip the ester off. Then the question becomes iffy.

 

[Neuromancer]

If you are already doing some conversion, just continue and strip the ester. Then you have a base for a transdermal.

 

[Meerschaum]

Yes,you can eat the pellets. should be at least twice a day. absorsion is around 25%. . But it doesn't save on the cost when you consider it take 4 times as much fina as injecting. but it does beat out transdermals unless you strip the ester off. Then the question becomes iffy.

does eating the pellets give any other adverse sides? IE: constipation, stomach ache, upper gi disturbance, etc ?, just wondering

 

[lozgod]

Just get the powder and cap it up.

 

[fdnk]

FYI:



I've taken 12 fina pellets per day for 3 weeks (orally), along with 75mg ED winny (Aug 04).



After the first week my strength exploded. However, around the same time I started having issues w/ upset stomach. I'm still not sure if tren/winny triggered my stomach problems. After I stopped taking fina & winny, my stomach problems didn't stop. I went to doc, my blood work was perfect (about a month after discontinuation). He put me on acid reducer medicine for 2 month. My stomach was ok afterwards, but not perfect yet even by now.



I did lean out a bit & gained a bit of thickness, however I hardly kept any gains. PCT after tren was a bitch, even after a 3 weeks run.

 

[Meerschaum]

FYI:



I've taken 12 fina pellets per day for 3 weeks (orally), along with 75mg ED winny (Aug 04).



After the first week my strength exploded. However, around the same time I started having issues w/ upset stomach. I'm still not sure if tren/winny triggered my stomach problems. After I stopped taking fina & winny, my stomach problems didn't stop. I went to doc, my blood work was perfect (about a month after discontinuation). He put me on acid reducer medicine for 2 month. My stomach was ok afterwards, but not perfect yet even by now.



I did lean out a bit & gained a bit of thickness, however I hardly kept any gains. PCT after tren was a bitch, even after a 3 weeks run.

dosent sound fun man

 

[D_town]

What did you run for PCT fdnk?

 

[KCPreki11]

So oral fina absorption is approx. 30%. What about when it's used w/ a cyclo mixture?

 

[sicosico]

here are other opinions:

http://www.anabolex.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145971

 

[CROWLER]

Fina doesn't need to be pinned every day. You can do it every other day and it will be fine.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The oral absortion is proably aorund 15-20%. The articles written by BC and PA compare it to transdermals that were around about 3 years ago which has an absortion rate of about 15% (this was before most of the newer trans formulas). So at best its probably around 20%.

 

[lozgod]

The oral absortion is proably aorund 15-20%. The articles written by BC and PA compare it to transdermals that were around about 3 years ago which has an absortion rate of about 15% (this was before most of the newer trans formulas). So at best its probably around 20%.

Does the acetate ester make it orally available? Some other acetates are orally avaiable also.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yes.

 

[lozgod]

Yes.

Thanks. Now you opened the panadoras box in my brain. Study time.

 

[fdnk]

What did you run for PCT fdnk?

1st week: 60mg Research Nolva ED, ZMA
2nd week:40mg Research Nolva ED, ZMA
3rd week: 20mg Research Nolva ED, ZMA
4th week: 10mg Research Nolva ED, ZMA

My next cycle was Test/Winny. For some reason gains sucked, but I ran HCG (Swale's protocol) and Clomid + Nolva for PCT. Recovery was a breeze much easier than before.

 

[Meerschaum]

The oral absortion is proably aorund 15-20%. The articles written by BC and PA compare it to transdermals that were around about 3 years ago which has an absortion rate of about 15% (this was before most of the newer trans formulas). So at best its probably around 20%.

you ever try it bobo? if so what issues?, I think it sounds interesting, just being able to eat pellets but at the same time if its gonna frag your inerds then no way.

 

[DR.D]

go trans for sure, you need not strip the acetate

 

[size]

A few years ago, experimented the oral method taking 10 pellets daily. result not impressed; should have implanted them in the cow properly.

 

[Skye]

I am not saying that it wouldn't cause a problem but noone that I ever had eat the pellets had a problem with them. This does work and experance follows the perdiction of 25% absorbsion. All this is feedback though, I am way to much of a cheapskate to waste my fina like ,

Size, that equates to around 50mg a day and not as effective to begin with. I Usually tell people to start at 80mg a day, 16 pellets. (this crap is exspencive to use this way)

For the cost if your going to use fina transdermally then you need to strip the ester. 70% wasted fina is bad, 85% is terable.

And for the last time, just inject the stuff

 

[FrTimothy]

I guess this isn't...

I guess this post isn't productive...

But I was considering doing transdermal or oral fina at one point. According to everything I've read it's more orally available than transdermal. To make it work better as a transdermal you need to strip the acetate.

However, the best transdermal vs. the best oral effectiveness you're going to get is running between 25% and 50%...I just could NOT bring myself to waste that much fina when almost none of it is being wasted in an injectable.

I guess I'm a poor boy though because someone on one of the boards said it was "cheap as dirt"....not for me.

 

[DR.D]

For the cost if your going to use fina transdermally then you need to strip the ester. 70% wasted fina is bad, 85% is terable.

And for the last time, just inject the stuff

Those numbers are not accurate, the acetate is well absorbed. Even the prop would have good trans abs w/ a molecule like tren. It's a legit question because not everyone reacts well to the shots. It's not viable to shoot it if you can't even walk, much less lift afterward. Not sure about the oral, but the actetate doesn't do crap to aid bioavaiability. It's the 1-methyl that offers the protection of the 17-OH with primo to make it orally active, not the acetate.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The ester would inhibit uptake as the androgen would get trapped in the stratum corneum waiting for the ester to be cleaved.

Chemo stated this several times when the first experimenation with T-Gels began and the results showed this. People had much better results when the ester was removed.

 

[DR.D]

I'm not familiar w/ Chemo's research, but acetate and prop esters normally don't demonstrate this problem. Even diprop esters are absorbed, it can be quite problematic with corticosteroids that are suppose to remain local, even bigger esters like valerate are well absorbed if an occlusive dressing is added. Acetate ester are easily hydrolyzed just by looking at them wrong, not very stable.

 

[realsoundjim]

if taken orally is there a downside of it being bad for the liver. i know it isnt methylated but was still curious as anything orally passes through it

 

[DR.D]

It's no worse that IM. It's the 17-alkyl that hurts you most with orals, not the route of administration.

 

[realsoundjim]

so then really if money was not a concern then this oral method would be the easiest hmmmm interesting

 

[DR.D]

so then really if money was not a concern then this oral method would be the easiest hmmmm interesting

Rich folks! Gee wiz, well at least put the little nasty thing under your tounge!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm not familiar w/ Chemo's research, but acetate and prop esters normally don't demonstrate this problem.

But they do when it comes to absortion through a transdermal. The difference is small but considering the cost of tren acetate, 10-15% can make a large difference is the actual dose that is absorbed.

Some people *ahem* experiemented with both and the base worked much better.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Rich folks! Gee wiz, well at least put the little nasty thing under your tounge!

Thats won't help either because the ester makes it even more lipophillic.

 

[size]

British dragon previously made tablets called "parabolan" (sneaky name) which were 25mg of tren acetate. I do not believe they are made any longer but probably still on the market.

 

[DR.D]

Thats won't help either because the ester makes it even more lipophillic.

Ideally, it should be a stearate or something bulky and waxy like that. It would get to the gut in much higher concentration. But it's not maketed as an oral, so you'd have to prepare it from the free alcohol.

I wonder what kind of trans carrier 'some people' were using? Convensional/commercial?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Ideally, it should be a stearate or something bulky and waxy like that. It would get to the gut in much higher concentration. But it's not maketed as an oral, so you'd have to prepare it from the free alcohol.

I wonder what kind of trans carrier 'some people' were using? Convensional/commercial?

You would need something that is hydrophilic but the problems with that is the amount absorbed is small so dosing would have to be at LEAST 3x/day.

It would be better just to make a cyclodextrin.

The trans used were T-Gels (the one with DMFA)

 

[DR.D]

You would need something that is hydrophilic but the problems with that is the amount absorbed is small so dosing would have to be at LEAST 3x/day.

It would be better just to make a cyclodextrin.

The trans used were T-Gels (the one with DMFA)

Right, that's why I was saying stearate, it would get it past the stomach and slowly hydrolyse in the gut like film coated E-mycin tabs. A long chain hydrophobic ester would increase absorbtion and slow the rate of disassociation from the free, more hydrophilic base alcohol. Especially tren with it's ABC unsaturation, H2O solubility would already be enhanced and better suited for oral than some.

Thanks for the T-gel, trans info Bobo.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yes I know its better used as an oral than most. I referring to sublingual absortion and how it would be difficult since mucous membranes only allow the passage of hydrophilic substances (and the ester would make it more lipophillic).

I assumed since you said "under the tongue" you were referring to sublingual absortion.

 

[Skye]

Those numbers are not accurate, the acetate is well absorbed. Even the prop would have good trans abs w/ a molecule like tren. It's a legit question because not everyone reacts well to the shots. It's not viable to shoot it if you can't even walk, much less lift afterward. Not sure about the oral, but the actetate doesn't do crap to aid bioavaiability. It's the 1-methyl that offers the protection of the 17-OH with primo to make it orally active, not the acetate.

Well I not going to argue numbers but Bobo right, its not just chemo's research ether. If you want a **** load of info on this take a look at Gaylords chemical (there's a name I would not like to have :rolleyes ) studies on it. Back when I was working with Bis A and B resins I had to contend with this every time I used it as a solvent. The size, shape, and even polarity of an chemical can affect the absorbsion rate. Adding any ester to a steroid base is going to hinder the absorbsion. I have only a basic understanding of how the steroid is absorbed orally but again from experance I can atest to a 25% or better absorbtion rate.

 

[DR.D]

Well I not going to argue numbers but Bobo right, its not just chemo's research ether. If you want a **** load of info on this take a look at Gaylords chemical (there's a name I would not like to have :rolleyes ) studies on it. Back when I was working with Bis A and B resins I had to contend with this every time I used it as a solvent. The size, shape, and even polarity of an chemical can affect the absorbsion rate. Adding any ester to a steroid base is going to hinder the absorbsion. I have only a basic understanding of how the steroid is absorbed orally but again from experance I can atest to a 25% or better absorbtion rate.

I understand what you and Bobo are trying to say, I'm just saying I doubt that an acetate ester is detrimental to transdermal absorbtion, I've seen it work the other way too many times. But I've never tried TA trans, so I won't argue with you if you have, I'll take your word for it.

 

[Skye]

I understand what you and Bobo are trying to say, I'm just saying I doubt that an acetate ester is detrimental to transdermal absorbtion, I've seen it work the other way too many times. But I've never tried TA trans, so I won't argue with you if you have, I'll take your word for it.

not personally. I have writen cycles for some people that for lack of a better term, pansies (at least with needles, had nothing to do with reactions to the shots). for myself I even pin dbol. but the few that have done my oral only cycle have blowen up and keep about 75% of what they gained. wasn't trying to over push a point though. It would be nice to have definitive data on subjects like these

 

[duckway]

FYI:



I've taken 12 fina pellets per day for 3 weeks (orally), along with 75mg ED winny (Aug 04).



After the first week my strength exploded. However, around the same time I started having issues w/ upset stomach. I'm still not sure if tren/winny triggered my stomach problems. After I stopped taking fina & winny, my stomach problems didn't stop. I went to doc, my blood work was perfect (about a month after discontinuation). He put me on acid reducer medicine for 2 month. My stomach was ok afterwards, but not perfect yet even by now.



I did lean out a bit & gained a bit of thickness, however I hardly kept any gains. PCT after tren was a bitch, even after a 3 weeks run.

I had the same problem during my last 2 weeks of pinned tren.. Maybe it's related to the compound and not the method of use?

 

[fdnk]

I had the same problem during my last 2 weeks of pinned tren.. Maybe it's related to the compound and not the method of use?

Oh man, I was getting ready to pin it in a month or so.

How long did your problems last?