Arimidex on cycle

[DNA24]

I've ordered what I need for my first injectable cycle( have done a couple orals in the past) and was wondering if it was necessary to take Adex "on cycle" from day 1 thru my last day of PCT. Since this is my first inject cycle, I'm only taking Test E at a low dose of 300 mg e/w(Monday mornings), for 12 weeks. Since the dose is so low, is Adex going to be needed "on cycle"?

 

[AlphaMilitant]

I personally like running Aromasin through cycle and PCT.. get blood work done before, during and after cycle. This way you know what your estro levels are at for sure. Estrogen is nothing to play with

 

[trenosaurus]

300mg a week? Come on brah.. what are you going to do with that? That would put you at the equivalent test levels of a horny teenager. 400mg minimum.. 500mg preferably.

Run the adex from the start. Do you want to try to get rid of gyno and bloating, or stop it from happening. Adjust the dosage as you go to find what works best for you.

 

[DNA24]

300mg a week? Come on brah.. what are you going to do with that? That would put you at the equivalent test levels of a horny teenager. 400mg minimum.. 500mg preferably. Run the adex from the start. Do you want to try to get rid of gyno and bloating, or stop it from happening. Adjust the dosage as you go to find what works best for you.

I've spoken to numerous different friends who've been on gear for years and the consensus from all of them was to start low in the 250-400 mg range. Some suggested an oral kicker for the first 4 weeks, but they all agreed on starting low and increases as I see fit. They did mention a lot of people start at 500 or more for they're first cycle and it isn't necessary. I'm trying to stop any gyno or bloating from happening, I currently don't have any issues but I'm trying to take all preventative measures.

 

[trenosaurus]

I've spoken to numerous different friends who've been on gear for years and the consensus from all of them was to start low in the 250-400 mg range. Some suggested an oral kicker for the first 4 weeks, but they all agreed on starting low and increases as I see fit. They did mention a lot of people start at 500 or more for they're first cycle and it isn't necessary. I'm trying to stop any gyno or bloating from happening, I currently don't have any issues but I'm trying to take all preventative measures.

Well it sounds like you have responsible friends, that is a good thing. There are people that cruise on 300mg of Test. It most likely won't put your test levels above 1500.. so if you're going to inject.. inject something that is going to make a difference. I'd say 375mg minimum, 500mg max for your first go. Once you start cycling in other compounds, then you can use a lower dose of test.. but this is the only thing you're using. Using 300mg a week now probably won't be a huge difference then when you are doing things naturally.

Run whatever AI you choose from the beginning.

 

[DNA24]

Well it sounds like you have responsible friends, that is a good thing. There are people that cruise on 300mg of Test. It most likely won't put your test levels above 1500.. so if you're going to inject.. inject something that is going to make a difference. I'd say 375mg minimum, 500mg max for your first go. Once you start cycling in other compounds, then you can use a lower dose of test.. but this is the only thing you're using. Using 300mg a week now probably won't be a huge difference then when you are doing things naturally. Run whatever AI you choose from the beginning.

I shoulda been more clear, I do have an oral on hand just haven't made up my mind if I'm gonna use it or not. I have DMZ 2.0 and have been considering a couple other oral kickers. I just wanted to make sure the Adex was absolutely necessary, I don't wanna be taking more **** than I have to. Also, which is better Adex or Aromasin? Seems like it's a 50-50 split on who prefers one over the other.

 

[trenosaurus]

I shoulda been more clear, I do have an oral on hand just haven't made up my mind if I'm gonna use it or not. I have DMZ 2.0 and have been considering a couple other oral kickers. I just wanted to make sure the Adex was absolutely necessary, I don't wanna be taking more **** than I have to. Also, which is better Adex or Aromasin? Seems like it's a 50-50 split on who prefers one over the other.

Aromasin is better. It is a suicide inhibitor.. so you don't have to worry about estrogen rebounding once you come off.

You don't want to be taking more **** than you have to.. but you have to take enough of something for it to be effective. Hope that makes since. An AI isn't always necessary.. but it is better to prevent, then to cure.

Kickstarting with an oral is a good idea.

 

[DNA24]

Aromasin is better. It is a suicide inhibitor.. so you don't have to worry about estrogen rebounding once you come off. You don't want to be taking more **** than you have to.. but you have to take enough of something for it to be effective. Hope that makes since. An AI isn't always necessary.. but it is better to prevent, then to cure. Kickstarting with an oral is a good idea.

sounds good. Aromasin is a lot cheaper too, that's what led me to think Adex was better.

 

[trenosaurus]

I guess that depends on where you are getting it free. From my experience, it's the other way around.

 

[AlphaMilitant]

I guess that depends on where you are getting it free. From my experience, it's the other way around.

^^^yep

 

[Viking23]

Aromsain is not cheaper. Don't matter where you get it from Cuz raws are more expensive always. So you are just getting a really low dose or adex anyways. And I have to find the link but I believe that they busted the estrogen rebounding theory.

 

[trenosaurus]

Aromsain is not cheaper. Don't matter where you get it from Cuz raws are more expensive always. So you are just getting a really low dose or adex anyways. And I have to find the link but I believe that they busted the estrogen rebounding myth. As well as the progesterone myth.

I doubt either of those are myths. But, I am all ears/eyes if you stumble upon the link

 

[jbryand101b]

Aromasin is better. It is a suicide inhibitor.. so you don't have to worry about estrogen rebounding once you come off.

More nonsense.

What? You think the body is going to be like, "oh, test to estro ratio is all out of wack", that's cool?

 

[jbryand101b]

I doubt either of those are myths. But, I am all ears/eyes if you stumble upon the link

It is. Learn about the body an how it works.

You have just as much a chance of rebound on any ai.

 

[mr.cooper69]

More nonsense.

What? You think the body is going to be like, "oh, test to estro ratio is all out of wack", that's cool?

Thank you jbry. Rebound is a funny little myth

 

[trenosaurus]

please copy and paste your google links to prove your theory.

 

[Zac Speed]

I'd at least run some EQ with your test... That's just me though.

 

[DNA24]

I'd at least run some EQ with your test... That's just me though.

funny u say that, I've been lookin into EQ a lot. My only hesitation is everyone suggesting Test only for my first cycle. I would love to stack the two, but it's been recommended to just stick with test first.

 

[Zac Speed]

funny u say that, I've been lookin into EQ a lot. My only hesitation is everyone suggesting Test only for my first cycle. I would love to stack the two, but it's been recommended to just stick with test first.

If you've already done a PH cycle I dont see the harm. Its not like adding 250-300mg/WK of EQ is gonna add all kinds of sides. Just makes sense to at least stack the two.

EQ will also boost your hunger drive and help you eat enough to pack on some size. As well as its ability to build lean striated muscle.

 

[Zac Speed]

FWIW I have quiet a few friends including my self who's first cycle was T and EQ. at a low dose like you're running its well worth it.

 

[DNA24]

FWIW I have quiet a few friends including my self who's first cycle was T and EQ. at a low dose like you're running its well worth it.

I've done a few PH/DS cycles without a problem. Did you run both Test and EQ at equal doses for at least 12 weeks or mix them up?

 

[Zac Speed]

I've done a few PH/DS cycles without a problem. Did you run both Test and EQ at equal doses for at least 12 weeks or mix them up?

I've run them many different ways. My dose is a little higher but I like 1g of test and 600mg of EQ per week.

 

[jbryand101b]

please copy and paste your google links to prove your theory.

Why? You are capable of researching it? Coop an my reputations precede ourselves.

Although coop is a much more mature level headed guy (it seems) than I. He just might come in for entertainment.

 

[DNA24]

I've run them many different ways. My dose is a little higher but I like 1g of test and 600mg of EQ per week.

so throwing them both in the same syringe once a week isn't a good idea?

 

[trenosaurus]

Why? You are capable of researching it? Coop an my reputations precede ourselves.

Although coop is a much more mature level headed guy (it seems) than I. He just might come in for entertainment.

I have researched, and everything I've read points to you being full of ****.

So.. how about you site your sources.

 

[Zac Speed]

so throwing them both in the same syringe once a week isn't a good idea?

I usually do 2 shots per week on that cruise phase. Each consists of 2cc Test E 250 and 1cc EQ. My eq is 300mg per ml so...

 

[Montego1]

Why? You are capable of researching it? Coop an my reputations precede ourselves.

Although coop is a much more mature level headed guy (it seems) than I. He just might come in for entertainment.

Looks like a new needle head is just trying to stir the pot here jbry.

 

[jbryand101b]

I have researched, and everything I've read points to you being full of ****.

So.. how about you site your sources.

My source? Simple biology.

Your body is going to respond to the lack of estrogen by increasing aromatase production.

When you stop the ai, your body will be attempting to restore homeostasis.

With androgen to estrogen ratio out of balance, again, it will attempt to even things out.

This is why you want to control estrogen, not destroy it, and also why you taper down, regardless of suicidal or not.

I prefer to use a serm while coming off an ai so estrogen can not interact/bind with the er, and the body can balance things out.

As soon as you introduce outside androgens into your system, everything gets out of sync, an so you body will begin its balancing act.

 

[jbryand101b]

Looks like a new needle head is just trying to stir the pot here jbry.

It's okay, he's new, he seems knowledgeable, to a degree. Doesn't seem to really have a grasp around how these compounds he's using work though.

 

[DNA24]

I usually do 2 shots per week on that cruise phase. Each consists of 2cc Test E 250 and 1cc EQ. My eq is 300mg per ml so...

how long do you run that cycle?

 

[Viking23]

Thanks for the back up jrby. I learned about this is college bio too but I knew just saying that wouldn't be enough. With that being said I did stumble upon a link a couple months ago that debunked it for the hard headed bb's. I just have to find it again.

 

[trenosaurus]

My source? Simple biology.

Your body is going to respond to the lack of estrogen by increasing aromatase production.

When you stop the ai, your body will be attempting to restore homeostasis.

With androgen to estrogen ratio out of balance, again, it will attempt to even things out.

This is why you want to control estrogen, not destroy it, and also why you taper down, regardless of suicidal or not.

I prefer to use a serm while coming off an ai so estrogen can not interact/bind with the er, and the body can balance things out.

As soon as you introduce outside androgens into your system, everything gets out of sync, an so you body will begin its balancing act.

What you basically just said is that..

Yes, it will rebound. But you take something else (a serm) to counteract the negative impacts it may have.

So what side are you arguing?

 

[jbryand101b]

What you basically just said is that..

Yes, it will rebound. But you take something else (a serm) to counteract the negative impacts it may have.

So what side are you arguing?

No, I said suicidal, or non suicidal doesn't matter.
Your going to have "estrogen rebound" from non aromatizing androgens as well.

 

[trenosaurus]

No, I said suicidal, or non suicidal doesn't matter.

You said estrogen rebound was a myth.

But it is a lot more likely you will rebound from adex than aromasin.

Letro is another story though..

 

[jbryand101b]

You said estrogen rebound was a myth.

But it is a lot more likely you will rebound from adex than aromasin.

Letro is another story though..

Back to square one.

Explain why? If your thinking because suicidal binds with the aromatase enzyme permanently, well, it can also be said the other way around.

Non suicidal ai's don't bind permanently to the arom enzyme, letting estrogen go free, preventing the body from rebounding harder with even more aromatase to make more estrogen to even out the androgen to e ratio

It's like saying since Decca is so long acting, it doesn't affect hpta as much as test susp.

 

[jaymichael]

"Aromasin acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition." In other words, Exemestane, by being structurally similar to the target of the enzymes, permanently binds to those enzymes, thereby preventing them from ever completing their task of converting androgens into estrogens. When we compare this mode of action against other AI’s the benefit becomes clear. Arimidex can unbind from the aromatase enzyme when you stop taking it but Aromasin will not therefore there is less chance of estrogen rebound with Aromasin."

It's not that rebound is impossible with aromasin, but it's less likely since it permanently attaches itself to the AR. I don't see how anything has been "debunked" here...

 

[jbryand101b]

I'm typing all this shiit on my phone an getting frustrated.

 

[jbryand101b]

"Aromasin acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processed to an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation, an effect also known as "suicide inhibition." In other words, Exemestane, by being structurally similar to the target of the enzymes, permanently binds to those enzymes, thereby preventing them from ever completing their task of converting androgens into estrogens. When we compare this mode of action against other AI's the benefit becomes clear. Arimidex can unbind from the aromatase enzyme when you stop taking it but Aromasin will not therefore there is less chance of estrogen rebound with Aromasin."

It's not that rebound is impossible with aromasin, but it's less likely since it's permanently attaches itself to the AR. I don't see how anything has been "debunked" here...

Read above. This is only plausible if the body doesn't respond to the imbalance, which if so, then you'd be a genetic anomaly

a competitive inhibitor binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme. a suicide inhibitor binds irreversibly and permanently inactivates it

your body will respond by synthesizing more aromatase enzyme so you will rebound quite naturally.

grape seed extract is an interesting estrogen blocker because not only is it an AI (i think a competitive inhibitor but i am not sure) but it also suppresses the genes responsible for manufacturing the aromatase enzyme

 

[DNA24]

I might need a new post for this, but am I correct in thinking that HCG would not be needed since I'm only running a 12 week cycle and with a low dose?

 

[GeekPoop]

I've run them many different ways. My dose is a little higher but I like 1g of test and 600mg of EQ per week.

I like this... good advice

I might need a new post for this, but am I correct in thinking that HCG would not be needed since I'm only running a 12 week cycle and with a low dose?

not needed, but I always suggest it.

 

[jbryand101b]

well, it doesn't happen much anymore, but I have decided to do the research for you guys, an so far, only this suicidal rebound thing is supported by bro scientist, not anyone with credibility.

What would happen if someone were to take letro or some other sort of AI for a long period of time?

and no, im not planning on doing this.


edit: suppression ~_~

you would have chronic high testosterone and low estrogen. and perhaps some muscle or joint pain (that is a common side effect with women on long term AI). Libido may suffer. i dunno if letro has any unique side effects of its own (beyond just related to AI action) either

i am not sure you will have a large rebound when you stop. i have never seen evidence of that happening in the literature, generally you would just go back to baseline

btw, for some reason the extra testosterone you get from taking an AI or SERM does not seem to cause the anabolic/androgenic action that you would see if the testosterone was elevated by normal means (or by exogenous testosterone). This may mean that estrogen is essential for full testosterone activity in the body

 

[DNA24]

Is 300 mg of Test E stacked with 180 mg of EQ once a week too low of a dose? I would gradually go up to 350/210 testE/EQ mid-cycle and finish around 400/240 during the last month.

 

[jbryand101b]

please copy and paste your google links to prove your theory.

google links? that's funny.

 

[Matthersby]

Suicidal AI = depressed inhibitor with no foreseeable end to his sadness.

Estrogen rebound = a fun, laid back, slutty "friend", Estrogen, that helps you get over your ex and is nothing like her.

HPTA suppression = a forcible end to the HPTA's monopolistic, tyrannic reign.

I provided Google links for these definitions.

 

[jbryand101b]

Suicidal AI = depressed inhibitor with no foreseeable end to his sadness.

Estrogen rebound = a fun, laid back, slutty "friend", Estrogen, that helps you get over your ex and is nothing like her.

HPTA suppression = a forcible end to the HPTA's monopolistic, tyrannic reign.

I provided Google links for these definitions.

:spankme:

 

[jbryand101b]

I might need a new post for this, but am I correct in thinking that HCG would not be needed since I'm only running a 12 week cycle and with a low dose?

Hcg can always be beneficial. Needed? Well, a pct itself isn't needed, but it def speeds things up, an helps.

 

[DNA24]

Hcg can always be beneficial. Needed? Well, a pct itself isn't needed, but it def speeds things up, an helps.

i got ya

 

[trenosaurus]

well, it doesn't happen much anymore, but I have decided to do the research for you guys, an so far, only this suicidal rebound thing is supported by bro scientist, not anyone with credibility.

So, your "sources" are quotes from other people.

Credible.

 

[jbryand101b]

So, your "sources" are quotes from other people.

Credible.

Lol, wow, you really are new to everything.

You don't know who Patrick Arnold is?

You should stop posting an start reading and learning, even if you are thick headed.

 

[Zac Speed]

You guys sure have cluttered up DNA's thread.. Damn.