Decent Non Methyls for cutting? - AnabolicMinds.com

Decent Non Methyls for cutting?

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  1. AK1
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    Decent Non Methyls for cutting?


    Hi bros.

    Now considering a final cutting phase - was going to do a lean gain but - I dont have time to do two different cycles now.

    Im wanting to do a prohormone stack but I dont really want either to be methyls as I have probably done enough orals now to think about avoiding them - so if I do this last one I'd rather not use anything particularly strenuous to the liver/kidneys.

    I think Furuza looks like it is probably going to take the spot for the first one as I like the look of the profiles and user feedback seems positive for recomposition and fat loss - I do have a couple of questions on this compound for anybody who might know:

    Lets say I run this at 200-250 mg a day how much DHT conversion/build up would one think I would get - my concerns are: Risk of hair loss (I have used Epistane numerous times and not suffered from DHT - I have also used winny at low dose and not suffered hair loss - so that is something to go on I guess).
    The second one is can I expect doses such as this to supress or at least buffer out estrogen concerns?

    As for the accompanying compound:

    One person recommended 11 keto/oxo stack with the Furuza - which I have to admit on paper looks like a good idea for fat loss - profiles and user feedback supports this. However I am unsure of what kind of dose to consider - baring in mind I have not used it or Furuza before and will be stacking both.
    It needs to be anabolic enough to prevent muscle waste going into a deficit and fasted cardio at least 3 X per week - but I'm not looking to try to make mega gains out of it as my diet will not support that.

    Other considerations :

    Hydroxybol (25R)-3b-hydroxy-5a-spirostan-6-one 15 mg
    1-Piperonylpiperazine 5 mg

    SUPPOSEDLY ... alike to anavar in terms of lean mass/ fat cutting / endurance-recovery
    However I have no experience with this compound and do not know anybody who has used it - I also do not know how well this would stack up with Furuza or if there may be any complications with a combination of these two.

    And what is this: 1-Piperonylpiperazine 5 mg - I have never come across this (some kind of stimulant?) - Wikipedia was the best I could find on this which said 1-(3,4-Methylenedioxybenzyl)piperazin e (MDBZP, piperonylpiperazine) is a mild stimulant found in street ecstasy (sounds shady as f***) - although I dont know what this does without the 3,4, methyl element - perhaps entirely different - maybe people can find this pro hormone without that crap in it.

    All that is coming up on this one on google for instance is chem book normeculture - no steroid/PH profiles or forum reviews/logs or designer feedback..... I will be setting up a thread just for this compound out of interest anyway to see if anybody can provide any light on this....

    Dienolone and Trenavar I want to avoid for progesterone aggravating factors (I am unsure of the truth behind this - but its not something I want to f*** around with as I dont really want to have to run an AI on cycle) - these have also been referenced as quite suppressive which I am wanting to avoid.
    MX LMG - the same as above ^ want to avoid it.

    Esentially really Im just looking for something that is not methylated, doesnt aromatise or have a reputation for aggravating progesterone....

    I dont necessarily HAVE to use the furuza - its just looking like its a probability.

    Thanks in advance to anybody willing to chip in with some thoughts....

    Andi

  2. AK1
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    I think the Hydroxybol is new and maybe still waiting on a patent which is possibly why there is little information out there
    Maybe I could be a guinnee pig - but dont really want to be pushing my luck
  3. AlphaMilitant's Avatar
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    Checkout sarms GW and S4. GW will definitely promote bf loss and S4 will help you cut up for sure. The endurance you receive from GW is EXTREME cleam energy... also shorter rest in between sets. The combo of the two creates a killer synergy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMilitant View Post
    Checkout sarms GW and S4. GW will definitely promote bf loss and S4 will help you cut up for sure. The endurance you receive from GW is EXTREME cleam energy... also shorter rest in between sets. The combo of the two creates a killer synergy
    Are you the owner of rc company?If i read through your posts it looks like that.
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    Nope... big sarms fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    Substituted piperidines/piperazines work as MC4R agonist for weight loss. Couple as DGAT2 inhibitors and inhibition of CYP450 1a2 enzyme
    Enhanced Body Formulations Product Educator

    For any questions on our products that need a quick response, please email me directly
    EnhancedBodyFormulations@gmail .com
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    Op should not use steroids if he doesn't want the sides.
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    Sides are controllable, just have to have the right compounds. Why not try winny or Anavar. I know u don't want methylated products but as far as cost vs effectiveness those two are the best.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Erase, alphaT2 OEP side free
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    PHs arnt worth cutting on. Get some Clen and PES Alpha T2...
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    everything has sides tho.. someone recommended OEP, yeah original OEP was great but it also make me a eunuch for quite some time
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    Quote Originally Posted by bel1 View Post
    everything has sides tho.. someone recommended OEP, yeah original OEP was great but it also make me a eunuch for quite some time

    ive heard about oep and T2 together great things is alllll i hear!
    Future IFBB pro. Glory to God. "The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that." - Arnold
  13. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Op should not use steroids if he doesn't want the sides.
    It's not that I am hoping to completely avoid sides as side effects are inevitable - just limit them the best I can (run less risky cycles etc).
    I am not going to get the results I am aiming for without anabolics - I'm just trying to be protected as much as possible from unnecessary damage.
  14. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by ion26 View Post
    PHs arnt worth cutting on. Get some Clen and PES Alpha T2...
    I have to admit I have considered clen and wondered how much extra progress I could make with it but

    Research suggests that clen can be a little volatile - on horses it has possibly effected the heart quite severely - I know we are completely biologically different - but the concern is there.
    Most people I hear first hand who used it said the jitters, insomnia and heart palpitations outweighed the benefit. Of course dosage is a variable to take into account - I don't know dosages that would avoid those issues.

    Has anybody here got experience with clen? Is it unadvisable to stack with anabolics due to BP etc ?
  15. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    It's not that I am hoping to completely avoid sides as side effects are inevitable - just limit them the best I can (run less risky cycles etc).
    I am not going to get the results I am aiming for without anabolics - I'm just trying to be protected as much as possible from unnecessary damage.
    In fact the two sides I want to limit I have put forward: Sticking to less toxic compounds and nothing that might aggravate gyno - I don't think that's too unrealistic ....
  16. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Sides are controllable, just have to have the right compounds. Why not try winny or Anavar. I know u don't want methylated products but as far as cost vs effectiveness those two are the best.
    Cost doesn't concern me really (obviously Id rather not pay high if the option to pay less is there) - its more efficiency vs Sides balance

    As for Winny and Var - Its like Ive told a few people on here getting reliable legit source where I am from is difficult. Most Var is counterfeited here - its probably about 20% var at best (if any). Oral Winny the same - much more toxic than people think and not much of it legit either and really not prepared to inject it daily....
  17. Mperkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    I have to admit I have considered clen and wondered how much extra progress I could make with it but

    Research suggests that clen can be a little volatile - on horses it has possibly effected the heart quite severely - I know we are completely biologically different - but the concern is there.
    Most people I hear first hand who used it said the jitters, insomnia and heart palpitations outweighed the benefit. Of course dosage is a variable to take into account - I don't know dosages that would avoid those issues.

    Has anybody here got experience with clen? Is it unadvisable to stack with anabolics due to BP etc ?
    ECA stack.. problem solved!
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  18. AK1
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    I think I have it sorted now anyway - Probably take a hybrid of Jbry's original recommendation and my own - start on some 11 Keto at low dose for a couple of weeks while calories arent as deficient - then run the furuza and hdrol for a few weeks once the calories drop. Didnt really want to resort to Hdrol again as I wanted something different and preferably unmethylated (but finding an unmethylated stack that is not suppressive, has good bio availability and has no estrogenic concerns is maybe very limited) -Hdrol is a pretty reliable compound for me I know what to expect from it. Just have to run it low to keep some of the sides down but I dont need much of it anyway as low doses of most stuff give me results. As for Furuza I dont know as I have not run it yet - but its got good reputation/user feedback.

    As for whether I use the clen or not will be down to more feedback/research as I dont take it lightly - so input on that one would be appreciated

    Thanks for everybody's advice/input
  19. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mperkins View Post
    ECA stack.. problem solved!
    These often cut muscle tissue though as well as fat - it is hard to find a stimulant that targets fat and spares muscle. As clen encourages you're body to prefer fat utilisation and is mildly anabolic - it is almost perfection - its just the sides make it abit of a Jekyl and Hyde character. Like a woman who is exotically hot, face and body of divinity - but unfortunately also psychotic !!

    I have access to dexaprine and Jack3d (the good stuff!) - running them on cycle has its risks so if I do it will most likely be back end when they are really needed and have a reduced time on them - stimulants only work for so long anyway your body gets resistant quickly.

    What's your favourite ECA then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    These often cut muscle tissue though as well as fat - it is hard to find a stimulant that targets fat and spares muscle. As clen encourages you're body to prefer fat utilisation and is mildly anabolic - it is almost perfection - its just the sides make it abit of a Jekyl and Hyde character. Like a woman who is exotically hot, face and body of divinity - but unfortunately also psychotic !!

    I have access to dexaprine and Jack3d (the good stuff!) - running them on cycle has its risks so if I do it will most likely be back end when they are really needed and have a reduced time on them - stimulants only work for so long anyway your body gets resistant quickly.

    What's your favourite ECA then?
    my fav? ill be running epedrine (the real deal) with caffeine and baby asprin along with 375mg of test a week for contest prep with a few other things to harden up. i like eca because of the less sides and since ill be juicing for the first time (losing my pin virginity ill be sparing muscle easy
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    These often cut muscle tissue though as well as fat - it is hard to find a stimulant that targets fat and spares muscle. As clen encourages you're body to prefer fat utilisation and is mildly anabolic - it is almost perfection - its just the sides make it abit of a Jekyl and Hyde character. Like a woman who is exotically hot, face and body of divinity - but unfortunately also psychotic !!

    I have access to dexaprine and Jack3d (the good stuff!) - running them on cycle has its risks so if I do it will most likely be back end when they are really needed and have a reduced time on them - stimulants only work for so long anyway your body gets resistant quickly.

    What's your favourite ECA then?
    but since youre not running test id say keto and clen and run it HARD and short i mean short like 4weeks. that will be a great burner and save some muscle then just use OTC stuff like alphamine, alphaT2, OEP, and other goodies. you can run also erase with Eca and that will help a tiny bit
    Future IFBB pro. Glory to God. "The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that." - Arnold
  22. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mperkins View Post
    but since youre not running test id say keto and clen and run it HARD and short i mean short like 4weeks. that will be a great burner and save some muscle then just use OTC stuff like alphamine, alphaT2, OEP, and other goodies. you can run also erase with Eca and that will help a tiny bit
    In four weeks I'll probably just shut my metabolism down trying to hammer enough of a cut out of it. I'd have to drop about 50g carbs a week and add way more cardio in and over do it - and then that loss probably wont take long for me to put back on. From the experience with my body I need time to drop gradually and then its less chance of me stopping responding and better chance of making those losses more permanent. Plus what I am aiming for is time dependant if I start a 4 week cut now I leave myself too long for things to go wrong, if I start it too late then no time to rectify anything that goes wrong.

    Lol lifting ruins lives !!!! hahaha

    I'm not saying your advice is incorrect or insignificant by any means - I just dont think it would work for my body judging by how it works
  23. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    In four weeks I'll probably just shut my metabolism down trying to hammer enough of a cut out of it. I'd have to drop about 50g carbs a week and add way more cardio in and over do it - and then that loss probably wont take long for me to put back on. From the experience with my body I need time to drop gradually and then its less chance of me stopping responding and better chance of making those losses more permanent. Plus what I am aiming for is time dependant if I start a 4 week cut now I leave myself too long for things to go wrong, if I start it too late then no time to rectify anything that goes wrong.

    Lol lifting ruins lives !!!! hahaha

    I'm not saying your advice is incorrect or insignificant by any means - I just dont think it would work for my body judging by how it works
    Unless you mean first four weeks as a keto/clen stack and then switch up - then I guess that might work !!
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    If I do Clen then it would probably be back end as my metabolism slows and re feeds and stims arent getting much more out of it anymore - First few weeks are always easy to drop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    Unless you mean first four weeks as a keto/clen stack and then switch up - then I guess that might work !!
    i meant that! hahaha like this

    1-4 just diet and cardio
    4-8 keto/clen
    8-12 make a nice OTC stack.

    i like to limit how much crazy stuff like clen im using i try to cut with OTC and diet most because yeah your body will lose a tiny bit of muscle but easier to keep off
    Future IFBB pro. Glory to God. "The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that." - Arnold
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    This should be moved out of the anabolics section.
  27. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMilitant View Post
    Checkout sarms GW and S4. GW will definitely promote bf loss and S4 will help you cut up for sure. The endurance you receive from GW is EXTREME cleam energy... also shorter rest in between sets. The combo of the two creates a killer synergy
    SARMS do have me intrigued - I know they are by no means new in terms of development, but in terms of supplementing they still feel quite new, Ive never used one and only seen a couple on the shelves.

    Im thinking of running Ostebol with the Faruza instead of Hdrol

    The nutrient repartitioning potential sounds good to me, along with it being non methylated and apparently not too suppressive even at moderate/high doses - in that regards sounds good vs Hdrol - its just because it is not suppressive - is that indicative of it being potential weak as an anabolic and not as effective at retaining muscle during a cut vs Hdrol or Epi for example?

    My concern is estrogen - I know these SARMS are not meant to aromitise but I have seen claims that they raise estrogen levels.

    perhaps you could provide some opinion - thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    SARMS do have me intrigued - I know they are by no means new in terms of development, but in terms of supplementing they still feel quite new, Ive never used one and only seen a couple on the shelves.

    Im thinking of running Ostebol with the Faruza instead of Hdrol

    The nutrient repartitioning potential sounds good to me, along with it being non methylated and apparently not too suppressive even at moderate/high doses - in that regards sounds good vs Hdrol - its just because it is not suppressive - is that indicative of it being potential weak as an anabolic and not as effective at retaining muscle during a cut vs Hdrol or Epi for example?

    My concern is estrogen - I know these SARMS are not meant to aromitise but I have seen claims that they raise estrogen levels.

    perhaps you could provide some opinion - thanks
    I always run aromasin at 12.5mg EOD when using sarms..
  29. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH2012 View Post
    protobol might be something to consider. its supposed to by very mild in terms of toxicity. the only real study i've seem on it was in rabbits though.

    imo, osta raises E2 by loweing shbg.
    Any relation to iForce Protodrol ??
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  30. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMilitant View Post
    I always run aromasin at 12.5mg EOD when using sarms..
    Ok thanks - what about 25mg of ATD every day or every other day? for the first 3-4 weeks of the cycle? Its a suicide AI so should get a prolonged anti E effect for a few more weeks....

    Also its stacked with a DHT derivative - have you ever done that with a SARM? Im wondering if that would be enough to control estrogen (dont want to kill it)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK1 View Post
    Ok thanks - what about 25mg of ATD every day or every other day? for the first 3-4 weeks of the cycle? Its a suicide AI so should get a prolonged anti E effect for a few more weeks....

    Also its stacked with a DHT derivative - have you ever done that with a SARM? Im wondering if that would be enough to control estrogen (dont want to kill it)
    Im not familiar with ATD... Thats a PCT product right? If I can remember, helps with Dopamine.

    I just adjust Aromasin based on how my joints feel or when I run bloods half way through the cycle I know where my esto's at. Obviously you dont want to crush it, but Im pretty sensitive and I can tell through Libido and joints
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    Thanks bro.. for some reason I was thinking leecheeks PCT product. Lol.
  33. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMilitant View Post
    Im not familiar with ATD... Thats a PCT product right? If I can remember, helps with Dopamine.

    I just adjust Aromasin based on how my joints feel or when I run bloods half way through the cycle I know where my esto's at. Obviously you dont want to crush it, but Im pretty sensitive and I can tell through Libido and joints
    People do use it during PCT - but I am thinking against it now because it is a steroidal AI it can apparently be suppressive like 6 bromo and cause negative feedback (I dont know how high dose it would have to be to do that but thats what good sources suggest). However used on cycle it can apparently reduce the amount of suppression from other compounds - I do not know how true that is or how exactly it works:
    ATD works for androgen activity the same way that tamoxifen works for estrogen. Tamoxifen blocks estrogen in breast tissue, but has positive effects in other tissue such as liver and bone. ATD blocks androgens in the hypothalamus, but allows it to be active in other tissue.

    "Because of this dual action estrogen levels are lowered while testosterone levels begin to rise. This is because ATD tricks your hypothalamus into thinking testosterone levels are low so it produces more. ATD provides benefits far beyond simply controlling estrogen in your body. Through its control over the androgen negative feedback loop testosterone production is restarted much faster. And the faster you recover your natural testosterone production the easier it is to keep muscular gains.

    In addition to ATD's benefits for post cycle therapy studies have shown that employing ATD during AAS use maintains significant HPTA function. This means reduced testicular atrophy and faster post-cycle recovery. This is something that you simply can't get from estrogen control alone." Quote from Athletixc.net ATD article
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  34. AlexPowell's Avatar
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    Honestly
    Why don't you fill a syringe with oil and inject it
    It sounds like you're after something that doesn't exist. Just take 3cc of whatever takes your fancy
  35. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    Honestly
    Why don't you fill a syringe with oil and inject it
    It sounds like you're after something that doesn't exist. Just take 3cc of whatever takes your fancy
    lol - yeah synthol FTW. I already decided long ago on the correct cycle this is an old thread now. In the UK MUCH more things are legal so it is easier to find something closer to what you want if you look hard enough - but I already admitted a couple of times my hopes were very restrictive and quite ambitious. Certainly no harm in searching though as you may end up finding something close or completely new all together ...
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  36. AlexPowell's Avatar
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    I was thinking more grapeseed oil with steroids suspended in it than site enhancement oil lol
  37. AK1
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    lol I know - Its just since 'synthol man' haunted me for the first time Its always the first thing that comes to my mind when anybody uses oil and injection in the same sentence! Sorry! (Stay synthol free guys !!!!!)
    "Your Clothes....................... ...Give them to me" - The Legend: T1
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    yeah haha
    but seriously, it sounds like you could really use real gear right now
    you're looking pretty good in your picture, no homo
    I don't know how much further oral cycles will take you
  39. AK1
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexPowell View Post
    yeah haha
    but seriously, it sounds like you could really use real gear right now
    you're looking pretty good in your picture, no homo
    I don't know how much further oral cycles will take you
    I know you are right- I have had the same convo with a bunch of ppl and my pro mentors - I was originally going to say goodbye to orals once and for all and go for an injectable course for the first time - its just the options I had available to me for my goals were basically test prop and Winny - and I cant really inject winny every day atm.
    I thought the best thing for this short term goal was to go with something fast and easy - I agree with you though - If I had more time, money and options available to me right now I'd down the injectable route

    Thanks for the compliment anyway - a lot of people seem to think I am an idiot on here just because I ask questions and ask for other people's opinions (which is what clever academics do all the time) - many dont appreciate or know the fact that this body was built and transformed from a 230 ibs fat guy with sh** muscle through hard work and knowing what I am doing with compounds, training and diet ...... if I were ignorant or undereducated it wouldn't have happened
    "Your Clothes....................... ...Give them to me" - The Legend: T1
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    That's fine
    Long esters are fine for cutting btw. Don't believe the crap that it will have you holding water. You're either estrogenic and bloated or have estrogen in the single digits and not bloated. You can't have low estrogen and be holding a lot of water, especially if diet is good and you're getting in the right amount of electrolytes.

    Lots of people got very shredded on dbol and deca for example, it was very popular at one time
  

  
 

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