Ouch! My liver hurts!

[Matthersby]

Oh my God, the broscience lately. Make it stop, please. I won't get into too much of that right now. Just be advised, I am damn-near one of the few guys that says "just be safe, don't drink, and waste very little money on liver support" - Before you flame me, at least have a degree in science. I don't say anything like that though, I'm not irresponsible. You are aware though, that a healthy, active, disease-free individual like most of us, can not only recover from HEAVY liver strain in just a few weeks time but a liver cut in half can regenerate in as little as 6 weeks. Please... I don't even drink. And I don't run orals longer than 5 weeks.

My main goal for future cycles is curbing nausea/lethargy. I don't care if product X lowers liver enzymes, or minimizes "long-term" damage, etc. What interests me, since I seem to only run the most hepatoxic orals out there when I cycle, is making it to the end without losing my appetite. I had a monster winter cycle in October that I had to cut short at 5 weeks after continually lowering my SD dose and finishing at 10 mg a day, and 2 weeks later after finishing SD, the lethargy and nausea got worse! And I was on close to 700mg/week of test!

I have never used Tudca but probably will be trying it this run.
I'm curious what you guys have had luck with that I should give a try in March. I prefer to have a kicker and a finisher so I need to get a good product that will help this cycle be a success. Thanks.

 

[rphash49]

I like aegis(tudca) if I'm running something very harsh.

Aegis and Talos(I have not tried the new Talos version that just came out) are my two favorite on cycle support supps.

Have you tried trest yet? I have not but i plan on using it later in the year with my 2nd run of sdmz.

 

[Matthersby]

Ya, Tudca and some NAC for sure this next run. DMZ/Sten/Test and epi on the end of it.

Dude I've googled Trest 3 times. No clue. Seen it in a dozen threads but no idea.

 

[rphash49]

Well if your going to use test shouldn't that prevent lethargy?

Trest(ment) seems promising but the short half life would be a pain having to dose every 3hrs.

 

[ELROCK]

^^^this.

Also, for a quality cycle support look into Damage Control.

 

[drewsicle3210]

Liver support is negligible. Supp industry's way of making money.

Drink water, watch symptoms, and check values. Done

 

[ELROCK]

I would like to actually add transdermal Trest along side my next cycle. I think it would add some good benefits; as in increase sense of well being & the energy boost (lethargy fighter).

 

[Matthersby]

Liver support is negligible. Supp industry's way of making money.

Drink water, watch symptoms, and check values. Done

I'm inclined to agree. Until I actually lose gains ON test due to SD nausea.

 

[Matthersby]

Well if your going to use test shouldn't that prevent lethargy? .

I get more anxiety than energy from aas but that's probably my thyroid. Can't deal with not being able to eat on a bulk though.

 

[rphash49]

Liver support is negligible. Supp industry's way of making money.

Drink water, watch symptoms, and check values. Done

I definitely agree. Same with test boosters IMO. For a healthy male they do little to nothing and are big time money makers for supp companies. I called out DAA in the supplement forum and the supp reps were all over me lmao! Neg repd me left and right till I shut up.

 

[Matthersby]

I called out DAA in the supplement forum and the supp reps were all over me lmao! Neg repd me left and right till I shut up.

Damn, that's ugly. I noticed your reps looked a bit low, buddy....They put the study right on our news page a few months ago and everyone was like, "but that's because they were younger guys, and they didn't use the sodium DAA, and the study wasn't done properly, and blah, blah, blah. A few dozen threads later, everyone's got it back in their post cycle again, our golden child of test boosters..

 

[rphash49]

Damn, that's ugly. I noticed your reps looked a bit low, buddy....They put the study right on our news page a few months ago and everyone was like, "but that's because they were younger guys, and they didn't use the sodium DAA, and the study wasn't done properly, and blah, blah, blah. A few dozen threads later, everyone's got it back in their post cycle again, our golden child of test boosters..

I've seen about 4 or 5 actual doctor prescribed PCT w/serm and not one had daa or any other otc supplement included.

 

[Number 10]

In the UK there's a bulk powders company (myprotein) that makes this Superfood XS. I tend to find that every morning and after every workout with a Berocca (not sure you guys get it in the states) and upping my beta carotene helps me on cycle and massively reduces DOMS in general. Totally anecdotal and can give you no science behind it but it works for me. Then again, I still use cycle assist and tudca.

 

[jbryand101b]

I'm beating a dead horse, but cel cycle assist is tried an true, and with all the crazy oral cycles I've experimented with, it has kept me healthy.

$26 at tf

 

[jbryand101b]

Damn, that's ugly. I noticed your reps looked a bit low, buddy....They put the study right on our news page a few months ago and everyone was like, "but that's because they were younger guys, and they didn't use the sodium DAA, and the study wasn't done properly, and blah, blah, blah. A few dozen threads later, everyone's got it back in their post cycle again, our golden child of test boosters..

It works, not for everyone, and not for long, but it can help.

2-3 weeks is enough time imo, after that its a waste for me.

 

[Matthersby]

It works, not for everyone, and not for long, but it can help.

2-3 weeks is enough time imo, after that its a waste for me.

$9 from my online vitamin shop, I've still never skipped it in a pct. Even after that study came out and crushed our little hearts.

 

[rphash49]

$9 from my online vitamin shop, I've still never skipped it in a pct. Even after that study came out and crushed our little hearts.

I also still use it more because I don't want to waste what I have in stock. I have like 5 bottles of Sns daa, bulk daa and 1 d-pol. I'm a sucker for a supplement sale!!!

 

[Matthersby]

I also still use it more because I don't want to waste what I have in stock. I have like 5 bottles of Sns daa, bulk daa and 1 d-pol. I'm a sucker for a supplement sale!!!

I think this is awesome. We all read the same study and argued for 17 pages. And they even titled it: DAA doesn't work.
And we are still like "fck it, It worked in my post cycle last time, I'm not risking it" - Dude, I had this exact argument with myself before I started pct, total denial. I'm like a Whitney Houston fan - "Nah-ah! Whitney didn't smoke no rocks!" "LIES!"

 

[jbryand101b]

Lol

 

[rphash49]

I think this is awesome. We all read the same study and argued for 17 pages. And they even titled it: DAA doesn't work.
And we are still like "fck it, It worked in my post cycle last time, I'm not risking it" - Dude, I had this exact argument with myself before I started pct, total denial. I'm like a Whitney Houston fan - "Nah-ah! Whitney didn't smoke no rocks!" "LIES!"

I'm dead set on not using DAA for my next pct lmao.

I'll probably get two weeks in and start having 2nd thoughts "omg what have I done?!?!, why didn't I just use the DAA!!!!". It will probably be the one time Clomid gives me emotional sides.

 

[fueledpassion]

My advice on the liver damage & appetite suppression?

Avoid the orals that do this. I used to run SD and it did this to me everytime. I tried Hdrol and had very little hepatic issues and I put on just as much weight and WAY more dry too. It was so much easier to keep.

The other option is to bridge SD into another less harsh methyl like hdrol and only use 10mg/day. I now understand why folks always said to only run SD for 3 weeks - simply because the 4th week is too hard to eat! Its pointless after the initial few lbs of glycogen. So maybe do this:

SD 10/10/10
Halo 50/50/50/75/75/75

It might work...

 

[mtinsideout]

I've been curious to see if adrafinil would be beneficial to combat lethargy on cycle but supposedly that can put stress on the liver as well. I'm also not sure how that would effect blood pressure, etc...

 

[Matthersby]

I'll probably get two weeks in and start having 2nd thoughts "omg what have I done?!?!, why didn't I just use the DAA!!!!"..

hahahhaha. "Can you overnight it!?!?!? My post cycle isn't working and I know its cuz I forgot the DAA!" :worried:

 

[Matthersby]

My advice on the liver damage & appetite suppression?

Avoid the orals that do this. I used to run SD and it did this to me everytime. I tried Hdrol and had very little hepatic issues and I put on just as much weight and WAY more dry too. It was so much easier to keep.

The other option is to bridge SD into another less harsh methyl like hdrol and only use 10mg/day. I now understand why folks always said to only run SD for 3 weeks - simply because the 4th week is too hard to eat! Its pointless after the initial few lbs of glycogen. So maybe do this:

SD 10/10/10
Halo 50/50/50/75/75/75

It might work...

Ya, I've never experienced that total nausea before, and it didn't subside when I dropped the SD either.
I'm lowering doses from now on while running Test with it.

 

[ELROCK]

I think this is awesome. We all read the same study and argued for 17 pages. And they even titled it: DAA doesn't work. And we are still like "fck it, It worked in my post cycle last time, I'm not risking it" - Dude, I had this exact argument with myself before I started pct, total denial. I'm like a Whitney Houston fan - "Nah-ah! Whitney didn't smoke no rocks!" "LIES!"

LMFAO!!!

 

[jbryand101b]

SD 10/10/10/10/10/10
Halo 50/50/50/75/75/75

fixed!

 

[pete8407]

fixed!

Smart dude

 

[CaptForest]

DAA gave me some prolactin issues. I will never use it again. There are other test boosters that can work. They just might be a bit more expensive.

 

[jbryand101b]

DAA gave me some prolactin issues. I will never use it again. There are other test boosters that can work. They just might be a bit more expensive.

It can do that. Inhibit p makes it all good though.

 

[fueledpassion]

It can do that. Inhibit p makes it all good though.

Whatever u do, dont double dose the Inhibit-P. Tis no joke the prolactin sides...

 

[jbryand101b]

Whatever u do, dont double dose the Inhibit-P. Tis no joke the prolactin sides...

I just add green tea caps if I want more from it.

 

[jbryand101b]

yeah man and they dismissed the rat study about daa causing a significant prolactin increase awhile back. but you read alot of threads where people are talking about gettin gyno during or after pct after using it. just sayin... i temporarily went nuts a few weeks ago and tried tribulus again. lol kinda made my gyno come back. maybe they should try and sell the crap to chicks as a breast enlarger. that aint a bad idea..... the sh1t might work for that.

That doesn't make sense, its been known daa raised test as well as prolactin it was in the orig study.

Or maybe I'm the only one who knew and thought otherwise?

 

[fueledpassion]

I just add green tea caps if I want more from it.

Correction: Tis no joke the L-Dopa sides...

 

[CaptForest]

What are some sides associated with l dopa that you are talking about?