Dull pain - upper abdomen 10 days into PH cycle

[riceorpasta]

I'm currently running my first cycle, these are what im taking:

PH:
Ultra-Sten x2 daily
Deca-Drol Max x3 daily

Support:
Coq10 + Vit E + Hawthorn 150mg x1 a day (afternoon)
Cycle armor x2 daily (evening before bed)

I diggest my PH usually with fish oil, or after consuming some form of FAT.
I am also consuming 3-5 litres of water a day.

I have started to feel a dull abdomen pain, more specifically to the upper right.
The pain is hard to explain, but it wont make you cringe, but make you want to stretch the abdomen.

Has anyone else experienced this?
What i had in mind was to either:

1. completely stop - but if i do, do i start my PCT?
2. stop ultra-sten (methylated) and continue deca-drol max (non-methylated)

My PCT:
Includes Nolva and Ultra male RX (i also have DAA available), and i planned to run it like so:

Week 1-2
Nolva 20mg
Ultra male 1 cap
Week 3-4
Nolva 10mg
Ultramale 1 cap
Week 5-6
Nolva 10mg

If i stop now, can you please suggest how i should dose my PCT.

Sorry forgot to mention:
Male, 25 years of age at 75KG.

I also got blood prior to my cycle, although the doctor suggested my liver was perfectly healthy, here are the stats:

ALT 28 U/L
AST 39 U/L
T.Bilirubin 16 umol/L
TP 70 g/L
Albumin 41 g/L
GLB 29 g/L
Alk Phos 69 U/L
GGT 24 U/L

thanks

 

[madripper32]

Could be your liver get some TUDCA or liv52

 

[riceorpasta]

yes sir, will look for either tomorrow thank you

 

[Number 10]

yes sir, will look for either tomorrow thank you

Good advice. Have you significantly changed your diet since starting cycle (added in a large amount of sugar or made another significant change)?

 

[kenpoengineer]

When in doubt see a doctor. Here is a link to a thread on liver distress symptoms:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/235318-liver-distress-symptoms.html

 

[AlexPowell]

I dunno man
Sounds more like cramping to me

 

[boosydoosy1]

There are several things it could be, but I would be careful with that harsh crap. If you are looking to grow and you are set on taking stuff, find a good source of reliable gear. If you don't your liver will be swiss cheese by the time you are my age. That's just solid advice if you want to stay in the game longer than one summer. We don't talk about sources here and we won't, but getting gear is NOT as hard as it used to be. It is really quite easy if you start googling and paying attention. I'll point you in the right direction, but I will not name a source for ya bro. Sorry.

Aside from that advice, I would be monitoring several things. If you take in sodas or anything acidic, you need to get that to a minumum while on gear. Your body considers a ton of a gear a bit of stress on the body which causes excess acid production resulting in all sorts of problems (being sick, having cramps, just feeling like crap). You can take bentonite clay directly, one teaspoon a day for several days and if that solves the issue, guess what, you were just very toxic in an acidic way.

Take liver support, but with the availablibity of things nowadays I just don't get taking methyl's ..... seems so 2009 to me.

 

[av6258]

Could be your liver get some TUDCA or liv52

Your liver really doesn't cause "hurt" in the sense of pain that you can feel. If that was the case, you would have many other signs and symptoms.

OP, Iwould bet you need to drink more water. Get in your 1-2 gallons a day dude.

 

[madripper32]

Your liver really doesn't cause "hurt" in the sense of pain that you can feel. If that was the case, you would have many other signs and symptoms. OP, Iwould bet you need to drink more water. Get in your 1-2 gallons a day dude.

What about that cramp feeling would that be associated with the liver?

 

[Number 10]

What about that cramp feeling would that be associated with the liver?

If he's on his first bulking cycle and he's significantly changed up his diet to consume the necessary calories, it could be general discomfort associated with that?

 

[riceorpasta]

Thanks for all the response.
Significant changes to diet: I have increased my carbs from about 50-60g to 100-150.
I have increased fat intake from about 50 to 80-100
I have increased protein in take from about 150 to 250-300.

Soda - I havent consumed soda since new years celebration. Was never a big soda drinker really.

I will be stepping out to local herbal shop or pharmacy hope they have liv52. My cycle armor already contains milk thistle 360mg. Recommend I purchase a stand alone milk thistle to take in the arvo or morning?

 

[wrathman10]

Thanks for all the response.
Significant changes to diet: I have increased my carbs from about 50-60g to 100-150.
I have increased fat intake from about 50 to 80-100
I have increased protein in take from about 150 to 250-300.

Soda - I havent consumed soda since new years celebration. Was never a big soda drinker really.

I will be stepping out to local herbal shop or pharmacy hope they have liv52. My cycle armor already contains milk thistle 360mg. Recommend I purchase a stand alone milk thistle to take in the arvo or morning?

Not sure we're you love but sprouts carries liver care on the shelf like $30 for the big bottle. It works great.

 

[ELROCK]

The liver is not likely going to cause pain. RUQ abdominal pain is usually consistent with a gallbladder issue like gallstones, sludge, sludge in the biliary ducts or inflammation to the gallbladder wall. If the pain persists go see a doc and get an abdominal ultrasound. The abdominal ultrasound will be able to see if there is any gallbladder or liver issues going on.

 

[riceorpasta]

Not sure we're you love but sprouts carries liver care on the shelf like $30 for the big bottle. It works great.

Thanks im from Melbourne. The brand is sprouts?

 

[riceorpasta]

The liver is not likely going to cause pain. RUQ abdominal pain is usually consistent with a gallbladder issue like gallstones, sludge, sludge in the biliary ducts or inflammation to the gallbladder wall. If the pain persists go see a doc and get an abdominal ultrasound. The abdominal ultrasound will be able to see if there is any gallbladder or liver issues going on.

That is what a few others have suggested.
I do remember before christmas I had the same pain but it went away and forgot about it totally until I spoke to a mate earlier today.

If I go for ultra sound should I stop taking my supplements for a couple of days? Especially if I am asked to fast.

 

[wrathman10]

No the store is called sprouts. The brand is the same a liv52.

 

[ELROCK]

That is what a few others have suggested. I do remember before christmas I had the same pain but it went away and forgot about it totally until I spoke to a mate earlier today. If I go for ultra sound should I stop taking my supplements for a couple of days? Especially if I am asked to fast.

You will have to fast for 8 hours prior to the abdominal ultrasound exam. As far as the supplements go that is totally up to you to stop prior to going to the doctor or for the ultrasound exam. The supplements you are on will not interfere with the ultrasound exam if that's what you are asking. If you are having continued and increased pain/distress then yes you may want to drop the supplements.

 

[Matthersby]

find a good source of reliable gear. If you don't your liver will be swiss cheese by the time you are my age.

What exactly do you think happens to a liver when it undergoes stress from "unreliable gear"?

 

[riceorpasta]

I can get purchase liv52 online. Or I ccanpurchase the following from local pharmacy:

Nutra life
Liver guard 35000 plus
Silybum marianum (milk thistle) fruit 35g
Equiv. Silymarin 270mg
Cynara scolymus (globe artichoke) leaf 6g
Peumus boldus (boldo) leaf 400mg
Molybdenum as trioxide 50 ug

Or

Swisse liver detox
Globe artichoke (cynara scolymus extract equiv. To fresh leaf 1.0g)
St marys thistle (silybum marianum fruit 2.5g flaranolignan calculated as silybin 28.6mg)
Turmeric (curcuma longa rhizome 1.5g curcuminoids 48.75mg)

Will either od this suffice or just purchase liv52?

 

[riceorpasta]

You will have to fast for 8 hours prior to the abdominal ultrasound exam. As far as the supplements go that is totally up to you to stop prior to going to the doctor or for the ultrasound exam. The supplements you are on will not interfere with the ultrasound exam if that's what you are asking. If you are having continued and increased pain/distress then yes you may want to drop the supplements.

I always take the supplement with food, so I may just stop altogether if I do go for ultrasound.

If I do decide to stop altogether, should I do my pct as I had planned ( I had planned to run an 8 week cycle ) my pct looks like:

Week 1-2
Nolva 20mg
Ultra male 1 cap
Week 3-4
Nolva 10mg
Ultramale 1 cap
Week 5-6
Nolva 10mg

I also have DAA and ZMA.

Today is 11th day.

 

[johnnybeegood]

i think you just need some stronger cycle/liver support. also try and eat really clean on cycle.

 

[ELROCK]

I'm not suggesting you need to drop your cycle. I'm only suggesting you go see your doc and request an abdominal ultrasound. It is not an expensive test (with or without insurance) and you will gain a good deal of information about your organ health.
Best of luck and keep us posted!

 

[riceorpasta]

I'm not suggesting you need to drop your cycle. I'm only suggesting you go see your doc and request an abdominal ultrasound. It is not an expensive test (with or without insurance) and you will gain a good deal of information about your organ health.
Best of luck and keep us posted!

no worries! i understand you didnt suggest to stop, however i did personally decide to stop as the pain became increasingly more pronounced.
It has been a 5 days since i've stopped my cycle and the pain is still there(not as bad though - but might just be in the head) and im currently running DAA and ultra male as a mini PCT (adding creatine today) which i may just continue to run until what's causing the pain has been identified.

I got blood and xray done today, i waited a little while because i wanted my liver levels to normalize as much as possible, i took blood about a month ago so if the difference are massive it would determine i took supp, and i dont know how my insurance are going to handle that..

will keep youse posted when i get the result and speak to doctor.

BTW blood test, ultrasound etc are all free her in Melbourne! with a doctors referral ofc.

 

[riceorpasta]

Hi guys,

just updating youse with my blood and xray.
X ray
no abnormality found

Blood
Before After
AST 39 U/L AST 38 U/L (Normal range <35)
ALT 28 U/L ALT 54 U/L (Normal range <40)
LDL 2.7 nmol/L LDL 4.2 mnol/L (Normal range 2.1-4.0)

just a little out of the normal range, nothing the doctor was concerned about.
However he suggested no alcohol and creatine for about a month.

The pain continues so i might go see another doctor, im guessing it's gallstone but this doctor doesnt seem to think so.

 

[ELROCK]

You need an abdominal ultrasound man.

 

[AlexPowell]

creatine, not even once

 

[BLaQz]

Do you feel any of the pain in your back as well? Upper right abdomen pain could be your pancreas... As someone mentioned before, it could be gallstones... Gallstones can cause pancreatitis(inflammation of the pancreas)... Get an MRI &/or an ultrasound... Pancreatitis is some serious $hit, whereas gallstones are an easy-ish fix via removal of the gallbladder...

 

[ELROCK]

Do you feel any of the pain in your back as well? Upper right abdomen pain could be your pancreas... As someone mentioned before, it could be gallstones... Gallstones can cause pancreatitis(inflammation of the pancreas)... Get an MRI &/or an ultrasound... Pancreatitis is some serious $hit, whereas gallstones are an easy-ish fix via removal of the gallbladder...

Good point that simple gallstones can cause pancreatitis. Although, pancreatitis usually presents with moderate to severe ( mostly severe) epigastric pain and elevated pancreatic enzymes. And the OP only has dull RUQ pain, but if you are conserved about having either issue then get the scan done.

 

[BLaQz]

Good point that simple gallstones can cause pancreatitis. Although, pancreatitis usually presents with moderate to severe ( mostly severe) epigastric pain and elevated pancreatic enzymes. And the OP only has dull RUQ pain, but if you are conserved about having either issue then get the scan done.

When the pancreas is only slightly inflamed, it's a dull pain... Steroids are one of the things I was told could aggravate pancreatitis... Trust me when I say I know exactly what a pancreatitis feels like... I had 2 attacks last year, one of which was coupled with a gallbladder attack... A nasty chain reaction that I'll never forget...

 

[ELROCK]

When the pancreas is only slightly inflamed, it's a dull pain... Steroids are one of the things I was told could aggravate pancreatitis... Trust me when I say I know exactly what a pancreatitis feels like... I had 2 attacks last year, one of which was coupled with a gallbladder attack... A nasty chain reaction that I'll never forget...

Yes, but he never mentioned dull epigastric pain. He mentioned dull RUQ pain. That is why he should get the abdominal ultrasound done to evaluate the pancreas, gallbladder, liver and kidneys so he will be completely covered.

 

[riceorpasta]

i am back!
sorry to have kept youse all waiting.
couple of days after my last post here i had the worst episode of stomach pain.
the next day i had a laparoscopic gallbladder surgery.

Next week marks my 6th week post operation meaning 6 weeks no GYM.
omg hearing the doctor tell me this was more painful then my stomach pain lol.

anyways plan to hit the GYM HARD! not really but yeah..
will need to go light weight for a couple of weeks i guess..

might start a cycle of halobolin by myopharm at 50/50/50/100/100/100 to help get me back into it..
or too soon? anyway i'll post the details of my cycle on another thread. thanks everyone.

 

[kolejorg]

Hey what supplements where you using prior to gallbladder issues. Same **** hit me about 3 years ago. Doctor told me it was very rare for younger males to have issues. Mine was very sudden.

 

[riceorpasta]

Hey what supplements where you using prior to gallbladder issues. Same **** hit me about 3 years ago. Doctor told me it was very rare for younger males to have issues. Mine was very sudden.

i was on Deca Drol MAX and ultra-sten.
my support was cycle armor by lecheek.

mine wasnt sudden! had it for awhile. not fun!