epi/stano first cycle in years

[4324downs]

Hello to everyone, I have been reading and lurking (no weirdness), around this site and trying my best to gather information/ sources for what I want to do. I decided on epi and stano stack. Stano to help with the tiredness that epi brings.

I have found out that the more background I can give the better information/help I might receive. If I get ripped for something that's ok I just want to get better, stronger and bigger. I have been skinny my whole life and kinda of sick of it. So ive lifted on and off for years and use to play basketball in high school. At 19 i was uneducated and dumb, I know my errors, and me and a friend did a cycle of d-bol and test with a pct. I ate everything in site and went from 190 to 250. I picked up a decent amount of fat but after the cycle I failed to keep up with anything and lost it all. BTW im 6'2''. Two years ago I was around 200 and cut to 177 to achieve about 6 percent body fat, and I felt good but even though I was lean I was still skinny. So I have worked my way up to 230 last October and then cut back down to 220 all while increasing in my strength.

My stats are 23 6'2 223 12 percent. Eat 3600 40/40/20
Oats, pb, whole wheat, chicken, tuna, Vegs, protein shakes

This is the cycle I was going to run

Vital epi 30/30/30/30/30
Vital stano 20/30/30/30/40 (every 10 is 200mg)
Cel cycle assist
Liver support (still looking for a good one most likely milk thirst)
Fish oil

Pct
Nova serm (just gotta find it) 20/20/20/20
Pes erase 1/2/3/3/2/1
Daa 3g daily

What do u guys think? Thank you for your opinions.

 

[Number 10]

I'd run your Nolva 40/20/20/20, that's what I do and tends to be the advice given on here.

Don't think you need additional milk thistle for your liver as it's present in CEL cycle assist. Might want to add Tudca in there though.

Forgotten what your cycle looked like, hold on...what are your goals again?

 

[4324downs]

For a moderate bulk with strength. It seems like the average people that take epi usually gain around 8 to 15 pounds on cycle and after pct hold around 6 to 12. I have read some people actually losing body fat with epi not much but usually around 2 percent. But I'm more in it for a solid bulk with minimum sides.

 

[Number 10]

Not going to bs you, I've not run either PH, but it seems a fairly solid set up and running Epi with Stano makes sense. I'd maybe add clomid to your PCT, but that's about it. You'll get better feedback on the actual PH's off people that have run those compounds. This should give you decent lean gains though.

 

[4324downs]

Thanks 10 for your help and advice ill look into tudca. I was going back and forth from Clomid and novla.

Has anyone else ran this or any input?

 

[CaptForest]

I think you need to add one more week to the epi to make it six weeks. I also think you should up the stano 800mg a day as quickly as You are comfortable

 

[Number 10]

Thanks 10 for your help and advice ill look into tudca. I was going back and forth from Clomid and novla. Has anyone else ran this or any input?

You're welcome. I meant running both.

 

[4324downs]

Should I keep epi at 30 for 6 weeks or stagger any week at all

 

[4324downs]

What do u guys think about pill form clomid or novla for me pct? I have access to it however if serm is better than ill have to do more research to find it.

Also if pill form is acceptable is there something I should take with it?

Also I've seen many logs about ppl taking cycle assist in the pct. Is that better with epi/stano?

 

[deadliftz]

What do u guys think about pill form clomid or novla for me pct? I have access to it however if serm is better than ill have to do more research to find it. Also if pill form is acceptable is there something I should take with it? Also I've seen many logs about ppl taking cycle assist in the pct. Is that better with epi/stano?

What do you mean? It's still a SERM whether it's in pill form or solution. I would prefer pills for convenience, but would sooner go for value and reputation.

 

[4324downs]

Thank you, for some reason I was under the impression serm was liquid. Blonde moment apparently

 

[4324downs]

I might be thinking about it too much I just want everything to go as best as possible. Is epi or drop better? Which one is less likely to cause gyno (it my main concern, I don't know if I'm even going to get it)

 

[deadliftz]

I might be thinking about it too much I just want everything to go as best as possible. Is epi or drop better? Which one is less likely to cause gyno (it my main concern, I don't know if I'm even going to get it)

Epi shouldn't cause gyno, but if you're unlucky you could get it after your cycle.

 

[4324downs]

Epi shouldn't cause gyno, but if you're unlucky you could get it after your cycle.

Thank you. I hope I'm not that unlucky. Esp going to take erase and nolva 40/20/20/20

 

[rphash49]

Thank you. I hope I'm not that unlucky. Esp going to take erase and nolva 40/20/20/20

Erase is good for cortisol control but IMO does little to nothing to reduce estrogen. I recommend low dose Formeron. 1pump everyother day through out pct and extend usage for additional 2 weeks after you are done with Nolva.

Nolva blocks the receptors but doesn't stop your recovering testosterone from aromatising. That is where Formeron comes in.

 

[4324downs]

Erase is good for cortisol control but IMO does little to nothing to reduce estrogen. I recommend low dose Formeron. 1pump everyother day through out pct and extend usage for additional 2 weeks after you are done with Nolva.

Nolva blocks the receptors but doesn't stop your recovering testosterone from aromatising. That is where Formeron comes in.

Is formeron siMilar to dermacrine?

 

[rphash49]

Is formeron siMilar to dermacrine?

Only similarity is that they are both transdermals.

Dermacrine is dhea. Does a great job of warding off feeling lethargic on cycle. Also help overall feeling of well being.

Formeron is an AI(aromatise inhibitor). Main purpose is to keep testosterone from aromatising into estrogen. Important if use in pct to keep dosage low to avoid suppression which is bad during pct.

 

[4324downs]

Only similarity is that they are both transdermals.

Dermacrine is dhea. Does a great job of warding off feeling lethargic on cycle. Also help overall feeling of well being.

Formeron is an AI(aromatise inhibitor). Main purpose is to keep testosterone from aromatising into estrogen. Important if use in pct to keep dosage low to avoid suppression which is bad during pct.

Thanks man. So its more important to have fo rmeron than dermacrine?

 

[rphash49]

Thanks man. So its more important to have fo rmeron than dermacrine?

The answer to that is subjective and depends on the person and or cycle.

But if we are talking about your stack: low dose epi and stano you don't need dermacrine for on cycle support and if you are not prone to gyno then you don't need formastane for pct.

 

[4324downs]

The answer to that is subjective and depends on the person and or cycle.

But if we are talking about your stack: low dose epi and stano you don't need dermacrine for on cycle support and if you are not prone to gyno then you don't need formastane for pct.

Thanks for your help rphash. I wanted to start this cycle low to min sides

 

[WesleyInman]

What is this Vital brand?? Can you expand on it?

Also with the LGI stano, it didn't really kick until I used 800-1000..even then I would consider going higher myself next time.

And with the epistane..I have personally seen several people develop pre-gyno from Epistane, though epistane has been touted to not convert..I personally can tell you I have seen it numerous times at dosages of 40-60mgs during cycle. Not even PCT. Odd but true.

Good luck man.

 

[4324downs]

What is this Vital brand?? Can you expand on it?

Also with the LGI stano, it didn't really kick until I used 800-1000..even then I would consider going higher myself next time.

And with the epistane..I have personally seen several people develop pre-gyno from Epistane, though epistane has been touted to not convert..I personally can tell you I have seen it numerous times at dosages of 40-60mgs during cycle. Not even PCT. Odd but true.

Good luck man.

Thanks brother. I will prob order everything soonish. I might not get it from vital labs which is a EPI2A3A Prohormone.

What week did u start noticing gains? I think with epi gains start around week 3.

I really appreciate I heads up. Is there any way to see if ur prone to gyno? I have slight puffy nips.

 

[pete8407]

Looks like a solid stack! If you end up not buying vital labs epi, we have a couple great epi products as well.

 

[jswain34]

Erase is good for cortisol control but IMO does little to nothing to reduce estrogen.

Not sure if this has been addressed or not but Erase is in fact an AI. Im guessing rphash is confusing it with another product.

 

[rphash49]

Not sure if this has been addressed or not but Erase is in fact an AI. Im guessing rphash is confusing it with another product.

Not confusing it at all. I've used pes erase and erase pro multiple times. Yes it is an AI but it very weak one.

 

[jswain34]

Not confusing it at all. I've used pes erase and erase pro multiple times. Yes it is an AI but it very weak one.

Alright man. Well i agree that formeron is a stronger AI, but based on my research, erase should be totally fine in pct from an epi/stano cycle. Albeit i haven't ran my first cycle yet, i have seen a lot of logs & a lot of planned cycles from experienced users all using erase as their AI of choice in pct.

 

[Number 10]

Alright man. Well i agree that formeron is a stronger AI, but based on my research, erase should be totally fine in pct from an epi/stano cycle. Albeit i haven't ran my first cycle yet, i have seen a lot of logs & a lot of planned cycles from experienced users all using erase as their AI of choice in pct.

It's your body mate, if you don't choose to take the advice it's your call. People aren't recommending you do certain things for their own health are they?

 

[rphash49]

Alright man. Well i agree that formeron is a stronger AI, but based on my research, erase should be totally fine in pct from an epi/stano cycle. Albeit i haven't ran my first cycle yet, i have seen a lot of logs & a lot of planned cycles from experienced users all using erase as their AI of choice in pct.

Cortisol control is important in pct so it serves that purpose. Also unless you are gyno prone running a cycle like epi/stano an AI isn't needed. Rebound is always possible

 

[jswain34]

It's your body mate, if you don't choose to take the advice it's your call. People aren't recommending you do certain things for their own health are they?

What are you talking about? 1. Im not the OP that was asking for advice. 2 I still believe erase is an AI and will continue to because this is the first I've ever seen someone say that erase is more of a cort control than an AI. Typically it is referred to as an AI and less of a cort control. From what ive seen, reduce-xt is used more for cort control and erase for an AI.

Cortisol control is important in pct so it serves that purpose. Also unless you are gyno prone running a cycle like epi/stano an AI isn't needed. Rebound is always possible

I understand the importance of cort control in pct. and i also understand the possibility of gyno rebound after a cycle. I was simply stating that this is the first time I've ever seen anyone say that erase is better for cort than as an ai. Thats all I'm saying. By no means am i saying your wrong.

 

[boosydoosy1]

What are you talking about? 1. Im not the OP that was asking for advice. 2 I still believe erase is an AI and will continue to because this is the first I've ever seen someone say that erase is more of a cort control than an AI. Typically it is referred to as an AI and less of a cort control. From what ive seen, reduce-xt is used more for cort control and erase for an AI.



I understand the importance of cort control in pct. and i also understand the possibility of gyno rebound after a cycle. I was simply stating that this is the first time I've ever seen anyone say that erase is better for cort than as an ai. Thats all I'm saying. By no means am i saying your wrong.

Cortisol control paired with a suicide AI right off cycle can be your ticket away from sides. You should already be on a progestorone antagonist if you are on any 19-Nor and stay on it until you are well off cycle an into PCT to be safe if you are gyno prone

 

[jswain34]

Cortisol control paired with a suicide AI right off cycle can be your ticket away from sides. You should already be on a progestorone antagonist if you are on any 19-Nor and stay on it until you are well off cycle an into PCT to be safe if you are gyno prone

Okay once again i realize this. Im not sure how you extracted any information in my posts where you thought this information would be helpful?

 

[Number 10]

What are you talking about? 1. Im not the OP that was asking for advice. 2 I still believe erase is an AI and will continue to because this is the first I've ever seen someone say that erase is more of a cort control than an AI. Typically it is referred to as an AI and less of a cort control. From what ive seen, reduce-xt is used more for cort control and erase for an AI. I understand the importance of cort control in pct. and i also understand the possibility of gyno rebound after a cycle. I was simply stating that this is the first time I've ever seen anyone say that erase is better for cort than as an ai. Thats all I'm saying. By no means am i saying your wrong.

And where are you doing your research? On the product websites? They're hardly going to recommend you taking a SERM are they...not the best marketing for their products if they have to recommend something you can't get OTC for their product to be used safely and effectively. If you notice, some of them now don't recommend an OTC product, they recommend a "full PCT".

So you came on here, and gave someone some bad advice. The forums are littered with people asking for advice, and on every thread they're being told to use clomid/nolva/Torem etc by the experienced members. If you wouldn't run a real steroid cycle without a full PCT containing these things, why would you be able to get away with it on a PH/DS?

Like I said, it's your body, and it's totally up to you how you run your cycles. I'll run mine differently, and offer different advice. If you or anyone else doesn't listen, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

 

[jswain34]

And where are you doing your research? On the product websites? They're hardly going to recommend you taking a SERM are they...not the best marketing for their products if they have to recommend something you can't get OTC for their product to be used safely and effectively. If you notice, some of them now don't recommend an OTC product, they recommend a "full PCT". So you came on here, and gave someone some bad advice. The forums are littered with people asking for advice, and on every thread they're being told to use clomid/nolva/Torem etc by the experienced members. If you wouldn't run a real steroid cycle without a full PCT containing these things, why would you be able to get away with it on a PH/DS? Like I said, it's your body, and it's totally up to you how you run your cycles. I'll run mine differently, and offer different advice. If you or anyone else doesn't listen, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Dude did i ever ONCE say he shouldnt take a serm??! Lol i dont even feel like your having a conversation with the right person because you keep pulling **** out of your ass and putting words in my mouth. Go back from where i entered this thread, and tell me where i told him he didnt need a serm??? Please.

I entered the thread with the premise that erase was an ai and that it would work in pct as his AI. i never once commented on any other aspect if his cycle whatsoever.

 

[Number 10]

Dude did i ever ONCE say he shouldnt take a serm??! Lol i dont even feel like your having a conversation with the right person because you keep pulling **** out of your ass and putting words in my mouth. Go back from where i entered this thread, and tell me where i told him he didnt need a serm??? Please. I entered the thread with the premise that erase was an ai and that it would work in pct as his AI. i never once commented on any other aspect if his cycle whatsoever.

It'd be the part where you said that based in your research erase should be totally fine for PCT on this cycle. Then saying that you haven't run a cycle yourself yet but you've done lots of research. Maybe stop being such a little keyboard warrior and get some experience under your belt running cycles with PH's and real gear before badly advising someone else because you have no personal experience and/or haven't done your research.

When it comes to PH's/DS/AAS, there's no real difference in terms of the side effects and shutdown you'll experience, hence why you'll always want the best PCT possible lined up. That's why the use of SERM's are always advised above an OTC product.

 

[jswain34]

It'd be the part where you said that based in your research erase should be totally fine for PCT on this cycle. Then saying that you haven't run a cycle yourself yet but you've done lots of research. Maybe stop being such a little keyboard warrior and get some experience under your belt running cycles with PH's and real gear before badly advising someone else because you have no personal experience and/or haven't done your research. When it comes to PH's/DS/AAS, there's no real difference in terms of the side effects and shutdown you'll experience, hence why you'll always want the best PCT possible lined up. That's why the use of SERM's are always advised above an OTC product.

Okay, maybe this is a misunderstanding. I was simply saying that he would be fine using erase in pct as his AI. I wasnt saying that he should use ONLY erase as pct.

 

[4324downs]

Okay, maybe this is a misunderstanding. I was simply saying that he would be fine using erase in pct as his AI. I wasnt saying that he should use ONLY erase as pct.

Thanks guys ill b getting an ai. Is erase one of the better ones?

Also is cortisol control important

 

[CaptForest]

I used high doses of vitamin c for cort control. There are studies that day say 3g a day will help reduce Cort by about 30% and I stopped any caffeine intake. I would like to try other supps with vit c and see if it's even better