Help with setting up this cycle?????

[modernoscar]

Msten
Epi
4-Andro

This will be my 2nd cycle. Ran Msten 6 months ago by itself(with proper assists and PCT) Gained 25 pounds, kept 12-14 so I was happy with that. Made me pretty tired at the end so I was going to add in 4-Andro for lethargy.

I fully realize Oral only cycles aren't the best for my body but I feel with proper on cycle support and recovery in PCT I can do it once in a while. I currently have no access to AAS or I would run Test with this cycle.

Is Msten,Epi,4-Andro too much at once?

Would it be better to start with Msten and add in Epi later on?

My plan is 4 weeks for this cycle with TUDCA, AI Life Support, clean diet.

PCT will be Nolva-20/20/10/10, DAA, Ostarine, maybe S-4.

Advice? Flaming is welcomed but if you could add in some experience with these compunds I'd appreciate it.

Stats-6', 195 lbs, 9-11bf.

I should throw in I'm looking to really lean up with some size on this one. Before it was a straight bulk(about 80 percent clean)

Thanks boys

 

[GeekPoop]

Do you need to stack 2 of them?? Why not just run Msten again, seems like you blew up like a blimp from that

I don't like osta in PCT

 

[modernoscar]

Do you need to stack 2 of them?? Why not just run Msten again, seems like you blew up like a blimp from that

I don't like osta in PCT

I did man!! The best part was I was really dry. I didn't look like I gained any body fat at all. I was pumped all the time and had new veins popping every where.

I'm going for more of a physique comp look because I'd like to get into the industry in the future so I was hoping the Epi would increase the cut even more. S-4 in PCT or on next cycle could be helpful as well for this.

Why no Osta in PCT?

 

[GeekPoop]

I did man!! The best part was I was really dry. I didn't look like I gained any body fat at all. I was pumped all the time and had new veins popping every where.

I'm going for more of a physique comp look because I'd like to get into the industry in the future so I was hoping the Epi would increase the cut even more. S-4 in PCT or on next cycle could be helpful as well for this.

Why no Osta in PCT?

Oh gothca so trying to stay hard / look lean? How about adding in some type of fat burner or something? ECA / clen / t3... something along those ya know? Do you have an actual comp, or just trying to look like a competitor?

Well I've been out of the sarm new for a while, but last I recall osta is suppressive. I've used osta before, and wasn't too impressed with it tbh.

 

[modernoscar]

Oh gothca so trying to stay hard / look lean? How about adding in some type of fat burner or something? ECA / clen / t3... something along those ya know? Do you have an actual comp, or just trying to look like a competitor?

Well I've been out of the sarm new for a while, but last I recall osta is suppressive. I've used osta before, and wasn't too impressed with it tbh.[/QUOTE

No competition for me. Don't know yet if I want to do any of those or not. My cousin is a photographer and I want to be razor sharp when I do a profile of pics come April. And I have Clen, but I haven't touched it yet. Funny thing is I'll do oral steroids but Clen scares me a little haha.

 

[Matthersby]

I think semi-recklessly you could run these 2 methyls and get great results. Dosage would be a big concern as I would think 20Msten/40Epi should be your maximum.

 

[Matthersby]

[/QUOTE]
No competition for me. Don't know yet if I want to do any of those or not. My cousin is a photographer and I want to be razor sharp when I do a profile of pics come April. And I have Clen, but I haven't touched it yet. Funny thing is I'll do oral steroids but Clen scares me a little haha.[/QUOTE]

Oral steroids besides the liver toxicity shouldn't scare you too much. Clen has many more health risks so I tend to agree with you, here....

 

[rphash49]

I think semi-recklessly you could run these 2 methyls and get great results. Dosage would be a big concern as I would think 20Msten/40Epi should be your maximum.

Agree. If you are going longer than 4 weeks I would also consider only 20msten/30epi

 

[modernoscar]

Agree. If you are going longer than 4 weeks I would also consider only 20msten/30epi

Am only going 4 weeks. You guys think liver will handle these fine with TUDCA and AI Life Support?

I was also thinking of putting in 4-Andro for lethargy.

Haha by recklessly you mean people over exaggerate the toxicity? Cause I'm looking to be as cautious as possible.

 

[Matthersby]

I definitely think toxicity is exaggerated by most because they believe the liver is an organ that sustains long-term injury from extremely short-term moderate stress(it doesn't)
but when you get to week 4 of a stack of 2 methyls, you can't wait to not feel like sh!t in a week, regardless of a nice test base.
My last SD/test cycle I couldn't eat on the 4th week. That does not help a bulking cycle.

 

[modernoscar]

Good thing last time was. About a week on Nolva after my cycle I was back to normal feeling.
But I was very, very tired the last week on Msten.
Now that I'm gonna do Epi and Msten together I felt the 4-Andro might help with lethargy because of its Test conversion.

 

[mw1]

I would probably opt for just Msten, however Msten bridged into Epi just be nice for leaning out your gains. BUT the problem is most msten is contaminated with SD and I always recommend going straight into pct after SD. I guess it depends if you trust the purity of your msten seeing that no one provides 3rd party labs anymore

 

[modernoscar]

I would probably opt for just Msten, however Msten bridged into Epi just be nice for leaning out your gains. BUT the problem is most msten is contaminated with SD and I always recommend going straight into pct after SD. I guess it depends if you trust the purity of your msten seeing that no one provides 3rd party labs anymore

Am I allowed to post where my Msten is from on here?

 

[rphash49]

Am I allowed to post where my Msten is from on here?

You can post the brand. While it should be a low percentage all m-sten on the market has some SD in it. I was told its because of the way it's made.

 

[mw1]

You can post the brand. While it should be a low percentage all m-sten on the market has some SD in it. I was told its because of the way it's made.

But another reason is SD is 75% less than Msten for raws

 

[modernoscar]

You can post the brand. While it should be a low percentage all m-sten on the market has some SD in it. I was told its because of the way it's made.

It's Iron Mag Labs Msten. Supposed to be completely free of SD, 100 pure Methylstenbolone. I've read nothing but good things about it.

 

[rphash49]

It's Iron Mag Labs Msten. Supposed to be completely free of SD, 100 pure Methylstenbolone. I've read nothing but good things about it.

While they can be a little pricey I like IML products. CEL could not get a single batch 100% free from SD and said it was basically not possible. Only way to know for sure is to test it. I personally wouldn't worry about it.

 

[modernoscar]

So I have this on hand:

IML Msten
Vital Labs Epi 2a3a
IML 4-Andro
Whats the best way to bring in Epi? Kickstart with Msten a week or two then throw the Epi in?
Or start both at the same time?

Doing 20mg max on Msten a day. Only did 16mg last time and grew a ton.

 

[rphash49]

So I have this on hand:

IML Msten
Vital Labs Epi 2a3a
IML 4-Andro
Whats the best way to bring in Epi? Kickstart with Msten a week or two then throw the Epi in?
Or start both at the same time?

Doing 20mg max on Msten a day. Only did 16mg last time and grew a ton.

I would do it this way

M-sten 20/20/20/20
Epi 30/30/30/30/40/40

What are you going to do about lethargy?

 

[modernoscar]

I would do it this way M-sten 20/20/20/20 Epi 30/30/30/30/40/40 What are you going to do about lethargy?

If i do run Epi for the extra 2 weeks do I need to start my Torem after I stop Msten?
And for lethargy I was gonna add in 4-Andro from IML

 

[modernoscar]

I would do it this way M-sten 20/20/20/20 Epi 30/30/30/30/40/40 What are you going to do about lethargy?

do I wait til after week 6 then to start PCT? Or start when the 4 was on Msten is up?
And I'm running 4-Andro by IML for lethargy,hope it works

 

[rphash49]

do I wait til after week 6 then to start PCT? Or start when the 4 was on Msten is up?
And I'm running 4-Andro by IML for lethargy,hope it works

Start pct day after last epi dose.

 

[modernoscar]

Start pct day after last epi dose.

And honestly you think the Msten, Epi, 4-Andro wouldn't be too much at once on the organs??

 

[rphash49]

And honestly you think the Msten, Epi, 4-Andro wouldn't be too much at once on the organs??

I would run it. If you have not ran M-sten before I would say run that solo first. I would use trest in place of 4-andro. Epi is fairly weak at 30-40mg.

 

[modernoscar]

I would run it. If you have not ran M-sten before I would say run that solo first. I would use trest in place of 4-andro. Epi is fairly weak at 30-40mg.

Damn already have the 4-Andro. Might get the trest if it helps more with lethargy.

 

[pete8407]

Damn already have the 4-Andro. Might get the trest if it helps more with lethargy.

You could always save it for a different run or trade/sell it to someone on the auction. Is that IML?

 

[modernoscar]

You could always save it for a different run or trade/sell it to someone on the auction. Is that IML?

Yessir it's IML. Is Trest an Testosterone precursor?? Better for lethargy??

 

[pete8407]

Yessir it's IML. Is Trest an Testosterone precursor?? Better for lethargy??

Looks like a great product! Good choice. What's your decision?

 

[modernoscar]

Looks like a great product! Good choice. What's your decision?

Gonna go with 4-Andro for now!! Starting Monday!! Bring on the gains!!. Taking advantage of the hormones and going six days a week. Each body part twice a week

 

[pete8407]

Gonna go with 4-Andro for now!! Starting Monday!! Bring on the gains!!. Taking advantage of the hormones and going six days a week. Each body part twice a week

Great decision! I'll be in for the ride.

 

[modernoscar]

Great decision! I'll be in for the ride.

I wish more people had your positive attitude towards others hahaha.

 

[fightbackhxc]

I did man!! The best part was I was really dry. I didn't look like I gained any body fat at all. I was pumped all the time and had new veins popping every where.

I'm going for more of a physique comp look because I'd like to get into the industry in the future so I was hoping the Epi would increase the cut even more. S-4 in PCT or on next cycle could be helpful as well for this.

Why no Osta in PCT?

Throw Ara into pct

 

[pete8407]

Throw Ara into pct

Totally agree! I'm using a couple bottles of Xgels in my next pct

 

[modernoscar]

Totally agree! I'm using a couple bottles of Xgels in my next pct

Dude I've started reading up on ARA the last week. Sounds like an incredible supplement. Yay for pumps and DOMS!!

 

[pete8407]

Dude I've started reading up on ARA the last week. Sounds like an incredible supplement. Yay for pumps and DOMS!!

I know, I can't wait! I have some GMS and some L-carnitine l-tartrate to go with it, very excited.

 

[pete8407]

Gonna go with 4-Andro for now!! Starting Monday!! Bring on the gains!!. Taking advantage of the hormones and going six days a week. Each body part twice a week

Very cool, are you going to log it on AM?

 

[modernoscar]

Very cool, are you going to log it on AM?

Won't be logging but will definitely be on here letting you guys know how it's working.

 

[pete8407]

Won't be logging but will definitely be on here letting you guys know how it's working.

Cool, keep me informed!

 

[modernoscar]

Cool, keep me informed!

Guys, some late ideas here.

Would it be any better to start with just Epi for 2 weeks then start Msten at week 3-6?

Or run MSTEN high dose for 2 weeks and finish with Epi? I really am looking to maximize this ripped looked.

I've been around 5 percent all natural before. Couldn't imagine if I had the size to go with it!!

 

[rphash49]

Guys, some late ideas here.

Would it be any better to start with just Epi for 2 weeks then start Msten at week 3-6?

Or run MSTEN high dose for 2 weeks and finish with Epi? I really am looking to maximize this ripped looked.

I've been around 5 percent all natural before. Couldn't imagine if I had the size to go with it!!

End with epi

 

[modernoscar]

End with epi

You think AI Life Support and TUDCA will be enough on cycle support

 

[rphash49]

You think AI Life Support and TUDCA will be enough on cycle support

Yes

I would also have taurine on hand for back pumps. They can be very painful for some. Also m-sten gives me lethargy so you may want to think about combating that

 

[modernoscar]

Yes I would also have taurine on hand for back pumps. They can be very painful for some. Also m-sten gives me lethargy so you may want to think about combating that

Have plenty of Taurine. Back pumps came hard in PCTst time and I had no idea taurine worked so well.

I have IML 4-Andro for lethargy, here's hoping it actually works. I had amazing energy on Msten until the last half of the cycle. Then shutdown hit me hard!!

 

[modernoscar]

First dose is down!!!

 

[modernoscar]

Guys, should I take all 3 pills together or split them up?

Epi
Msten
4-Andro

 

[Matthersby]

The methyls should be split up as much as possible. Reduced hepatic strain.

 

[rphash49]

Guys, should I take all 3 pills together or split them up?

Epi
Msten
4-Andro

2 questions:

How much of each do you plan to dose daily?
And how much is in each cap?

 

[modernoscar]

2 questions: How much of each do you plan to dose daily? And how much is in each cap?

30mg Epi
20mg Msten
100mg 4-Andro

How long should they be split? A few hours? I know Epi can interrupt sleep if taken too late

 

[fueledpassion]

I definitely think toxicity is exaggerated by most because they believe the liver is an organ that sustains long-term injury from extremely short-term moderate stress(it doesn't)
but when you get to week 4 of a stack of 2 methyls, you can't wait to not feel like sh!t in a week, regardless of a nice test base.
My last SD/test cycle I couldn't eat on the 4th week. That does not help a bulking cycle.

Touche. Me too brotha

 

[fueledpassion]

30mg Epi
20mg Msten
100mg 4-Andro

How long should they be split? A few hours? I know Epi can interrupt sleep if taken too late

Play with it bro. No cookie cutter way.

Take plenty of NAC and drink lots of water (like 2 gallons/day).