I am on Propecia, what to avoid? - AnabolicMinds.com

I am on Propecia, what to avoid?

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    I am on Propecia, what to avoid?


    Hello everyone!

    I need some advice from some people that actually knows something.
    I have some friends who has clearly misused AAS, and they are sadly my source of knowledge.
    Obviously I don't want to end up like them.
    Totally bald, scarred arms and both of their faces have craters.
    I guess from some hardcore acne?

    I have taken test and deca (injected) in the past, some 4 or 5 years ago.
    Clomid for recovery.

    I was planning on taking something similar.

    BUT.

    I have since then started taking propecia for male pattern baldness.

    Luckily I read somewhere that deca and propecia taken together will be chugging my hairline like no other!

    My friends said it was incorrect. I think they are incorrect.

    What AAS can I take that doesn't react with propecia?

    I bought Superdrol because I thought it wouldn't react with propecia but have later learned that it actually is a DHT like substance? Does it react?
    How is it without propecia, bad on hairline, acne?
    I know some people would be willing to take it from me, so I could tell them if they ask.

    Other things I can get are: M1T, Deca, DBol, Test, Clomid.

    I am sorry if this question is tiresome but I don't own a computer so I can not do so much research. I will have to get one!

    Thanks for baring with me!


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    It's not that propecia is bad with dec, it's just that it ruins one of the nice qualities of one of it's metabolites. Dbol and test are the worst on the list you have, as far as hairline, but propecia would stack well with them. Superdrol is the cleanest of all, even though it's a DHT derivative, it's not very androgenic. I got no skin or hair problems at all when I used it.

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    wait Dr.D - are you saying Propecia is effective with Dbol? I thought it was just TEST.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    wait Dr.D - are you saying Propecia is effective with Dbol? I thought it was just TEST.
    Isn't Dbol a test derivative (sp?), so in theory Proscar/Propecia should work.

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    It is probably most effective w/ test, or any androgen capable of generating potent metabolites that bind well to the DHT receptors. I'm pretty sure that Dbol has some high affinity metabolites.

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    ok thanks guys, thats good to know.
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    Thanks alot guys!

    What's your insight about M1T and propecia?

    How bad is M1T alone for your hair and skin?

    Thanks!

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    I've heard that M1T is fairly bad, never made me that oily though, of course I've never used more than 12.5mg. I don't remember it's binding affinity off hand, but it's intrinsic activity would be high I suppose if it does bind. Propecia wouldn't help much, because metabolism is not the issue with M1T.

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    Propecia doesn't help at all with M1T, doesn't neccessarily hurt though. My experience.
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    Deoudes59 is the king of hair treatments! Even though he's got all his hair... hhhmmm maybe that's why!

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    haha thanks, knock on wood...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    It is probably most effective w/ test, or any androgen capable of generating potent metabolites that bind well to the DHT receptors. I'm pretty sure that Dbol has some high affinity metabolites.
    Like Dr. D said 5alpha blockers work best with test derivatives. Things like Tren, 1-Test, Winny, M1T, and any altered DHT-type of gear will require you to use an topical anti-androgen.

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    Thank you so much for these answers!
    Many people seems intrested in this, but many are not on propecia (yet )

    Can anybody recommend a good easy to find topical anti-androgen?
    Nizoral + Azelaic acid maybe? (I have heard people use that combo).

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    Nizoral + Azelaic acid maybe?

    Ok I have probly used everything under the sun to combat hairloss. And Nizoral 1% has only slightly helpe IMO. And Azelaic acid is worthless. I used it a few years ago with 5% minox and propecia and I saw no added benafit over just 5% minox and propecia.

    Don't forget hairloss is not just caused by DHT. It has other contributers as well.

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    Ok, thank you for the tip. You just saved me money!
    Any topical anti-androgen you could point me towards?
    Thank you again so much!

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    Everyone will reccommend Spiro 5%, topically it may help where propecia wont and with androgens. Propecia and Minoxidil is supposed to effect the temple area too much - so Spiro may help out here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    Everyone will reccommend Spiro 5%, topically it may help where propecia wont and with androgens. Propecia and Minoxidil is supposed to effect the temple area too much - so Spiro may help out here...
    I've used spiro. It's good but it smells like friggin' skunk. Use it and people will run from you, believe me. Instead I use azelaic acid, which is supposed to be as good, if not better (depends on who you ask though), than spiro. You can get Azel Acid at Custom Nutrition. I use it in the morning with a 5% minox solution and Nizoral 2% shampoo. In the evening I use Dr. Lee's Xandrox 15, which is 15% minox and azelaic acid. See www.xandrox.com. So far so good.

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    hmm the Spiro from Xandrox.com doesn't smell (not to me at least). I may give the azelaic acid a shot on the temples again.
    I use a SAM's club Minoxidil (really greasy), Dr. Lee's Minoxidil was much better - but maybe not worth shelling out 2x the money.
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    Thanks!

    Is the 2% solution enough or should I look for the 5% gel?

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    which are we talking about?
    Minoxidil or Spiro - i'd run both at 5%.
    The 5% Spiro from Xandrox.com is a lotion, the 2% is a liquid. I'm not sure what customnutritions is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    which are we talking about?
    Minoxidil or Spiro - i'd run both at 5%.
    The 5% Spiro from Xandrox.com is a lotion, the 2% is a liquid. I'm not sure what customnutritions is.
    Sorry, I meant Spiro.

    Is there any way to make your own Spiro transdermal?
    I can get 100mg Spironolactone tablets almost for nothing.

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    [QUOTE=Deoudes59]hmm the Spiro from Xandrox.com doesn't smell (not to me at least). QUOTE]

    Thanks for that. I'll have to give Dr. Lee's (Xandrox's) spiro another look. I never bothered to try it because the intructions on his website states that the smell is "disagreeable." Don't know about Dr. Lee's brand, but disagreeable doesn't even begin to describe the smell of the other the spiro I've tried. Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scifi
    Sorry, I meant Spiro.

    Is there any way to make your own Spiro transdermal?
    I can get 100mg Spironolactone tablets almost for nothing.
    Damn There is info on this somewhere. As you know Spironolactone orally is for heart problem.
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    [QUOTE=Josey Wales]
    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    hmm the Spiro from Xandrox.com doesn't smell (not to me at least). QUOTE]

    Thanks for that. I'll have to give Dr. Lee's (Xandrox's) spiro another look. I never bothered to try it because the intructions on his website states that the smell is "disagreeable." Don't know about Dr. Lee's brand, but disagreeable doesn't even begin to describe the smell of the other the spiro I've tried. Thanks again.

    Yeah, the 5% lotion is expensive, but I don't think it smells bad at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    Yeah, the 5% lotion is expensive, but I don't think it smells bad at all.
    It doesn't small bad at all. The only time it will is when you combine it with Minox. The problem with Spiro is that it has avery short half life in the scalp/skin. Its only about 4hrs or so. There is another topical anti-androgen, I can't rember the name right now. It's on a thread that BigViruga (sp?) started on hairloss.

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    M1t, 1T, Propecia and your hair


    Just from personal experience as a Finasteride/Propecia user for 2 years. Before any pro-hormone use I had a really unusually thick head of hair and was using 1mg Propecia daily for a year just as a precaution for MPB. It was getting even thicker with the Propecia. After 6 weeks of a NOR-Andro stack (19 Nor, 4AD) I noticed no hair loss. So I tried 1T and later M1T. What a change. After 2 weeks, hair all over the pillow. It was almost like any hair the Propecia had saved or grew was now coming out. M1T and 1T seem to affect the hair follicle in a different way that can not be stopped by Propecia (Finasteride). They convert via a different pathway.

    1. M1T: Propecia has little if any effect on this stuff, for me at least. I experienced a lot of shedding, even a small "hole" of no hair (like 3 mm) On the top side of my head (scary to m...but luckily, not noticible). Topical Spironolactone 5% seemed to cut the shedding down, but I will never again do a M1T cycle longer than 1-2 weeks and a dose no larger that 10 mg M1T (the severe shedding, even while taking propecia, was on a 3 week cycle with 20 mg M1T, no 4AD included). Even on a 2 week cycle with 10mg M1T and 1mg Propecia daily, I experienced some scary shedding. The hair was growing back SLOWLY after I quit...then when I did another cycle of M1T the new hair all fell out again. So M1T is definitely, for me, a hair loss catalyst, and is not stopped by Propecia.

    2. 1T is just as bad for shedding even WITH Propecia, for me, as M1T. And Propecia does not seems to to help 1T hair loss, either. So I would rather take M1t for the extra results I get (I get great muscle mass/fat loss results with it) and take M1T for less time.

    2. With 19-Nor Andro stack (the "Diol" is better that the "Dione" version for hair, I believe) and 4AD I notice little if any shedding, and was always taking Propecia (1mg). This seems the safest way to go, but then I hear some posts that say this is bad too.
    I do miss the extreme body composition results I get with M1T.

    My recommendation, if you are prone to losing hair, is to take 4AD and/ or 19 Nor-Andro Stacks (19 Nor 4-Androstendiol is the safer than the "dione" version, I think) with Propecia, although I have read posts against this...I think the DHT conversion is prevented by the Propecia with 19 Nor 4-Androstendiol, and 4AD is the safest of all. And if you have to take M1T (I probably will so it again because it gives the best mass/fat loss results for me) take small doses (5-10mg) and short 1-2 week cycles, with topical Spironolactone applied 2-3x daily. 1T is just not worth it to me; the cycles are long, body composition results are less, and it kills my hair just as badly as M1T.

    I still have a full head of hair, and it grew back for the most part with a lot of pampering (Prescription Nizoral, Propecia, Spironolactone and Minoxidil) but I'm being very carefull...I can't make too many more mistakes.

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    I though Nor and propecia was a bad idea??? Maybe I don't understand this stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrgg
    I though Nor and propecia was a bad idea??? Maybe I don't understand this stuff.
    Your right, but his doses may not have been high enough to result in a noticable conflict.

    beau007,
    That's some intresting info on the diol VS dione.

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    I may be wrong, but I think that 19 Nor 4-Androstenediol is "safer" for hair and less problems with estrogen than 19 Nor 4-Androstenedione.

    But I'm not a chemist, just a pro-hormone user =)

    I'll do some research on the problems of finasteride with these prohormones.

    But like I wrote earlier, M1t and 1t are not affected by finasteride on my scalp. Unfortunately (for my hair) I had incredible results with M1t. I have never been so hard, big, defined, vascular and cut up in my life as when using it, but watching my beloved hair go down the drain is a hard side effect to take.


    I'm curious about finasteride and Superdrol.


    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Your right, but his doses may not have been high enough to result in a noticable conflict.

    beau007,
    That's some intresting info on the diol VS dione.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beau007
    I may be wrong, but I think that 19 Nor 4-Androstenediol is "safer" for hair and less problems with estrogen than 19 Nor 4-Androstenedione.

    But I'm not a chemist, just a pro-hormone user =)

    I'll do some research on the problems of finasteride with these prohormones.

    But like I wrote earlier, M1t and 1t are not affected by finasteride on my scalp. Unfortunately (for my hair) I had incredible results with M1t. I have never been so hard, big, defined, vascular and cut up in my life as when using it, but watching my beloved hair go down the drain is a hard side effect to take.


    I'm curious about finasteride and Superdrol.
    I can't understand you results w/ 4AD and 19dione, but we all react differently. 4dione for example should not add to estrogen so it's all very individuallized in the end. Everyone is different, but I seriously doubt that you will need anything at all for hair protection on SD. It doesn't metabolize, so not pills will help with it. I'd stick with Minox for this one if you wanted some insurance.

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    There is an article floating around that says that Propecia and Deca CAN be used together , without any negitive sides.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    There is an article floating around that says that Propecia and Deca CAN be used together , without any negitive sides.
    It can, just doesn't always make sense to do it.

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    Thanks for the info on the SD and finasteride. I'll check it out.

    My apologies in advance for posting all this on the ANABOLICS forum...I was originally answering the Propecia question and M1t (and M1t is a steroid). This should be in the Prohormone forum if it relates to 4AD and 19dione (NOR).

    Dr.D, what do you question about the 4AD 19dione? Should I have lost hair using that combo with Finasteride like I did with M1t? I didn't, which is why I wrote they were OK with Finasteride. Is that not nomally the case? Let me know if that's true.

    I may be wrong about the estrogen...I never had any sides using 19dione, 19diol or 4AD and anything I know about the sides is from reading.

    Cheers,
    SB
    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I can't understand you results w/ 4AD and 19dione, but we all react differently. 4dione for example should not add to estrogen so it's all very individuallized in the end. Everyone is different, but I seriously doubt that you will need anything at all for hair protection on SD. It doesn't metabolize, so not pills will help with it. I'd stick with Minox for this one if you wanted some insurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beau007
    Thanks for the info on the SD and finasteride. I'll check it out.

    My apologies in advance for posting all this on the ANABOLICS forum...I was originally answering the Propecia question and M1t (and M1t is a steroid). This should be in the Prohormone forum if it relates to 4AD and 19dione (NOR).

    Dr.D, what do you question about the 4AD 19dione? Should I have lost hair using that combo with Finasteride like I did with M1t? I didn't, which is why I wrote they were OK with Finasteride. Is that not nomally the case? Let me know if that's true.

    I may be wrong about the estrogen...I never had any sides using 19dione, 19diol or 4AD and anything I know about the sides is from reading.

    Cheers,
    SB
    Well, 4AD is very androgenic. More so that test itself, so expect more DHT conversion than estro if you ask me. The Fin, Spiro, and Niz will be great here.

    19-diol is going to convert to Dec at ~16% so it's going to form a little 19-Nor-DHT. That's what you don't want to block, but the amount is so small that unless your using fat does or actually using Dec itself that it's probably a non-factor. No hair drugs are really helpful but Min.

    19-dione is not converted effeciently to estrone as may believe, it's actually a mild AI, so estrogen and DHT sides should be very low with this one. No hair stuff needed at all.

    1T and M1T are already very androgenic on their own, so the fact that they can not be activated my 5-a-reductase just means that Min is all that can really help. Spiro, Niz and Fin will do nothing, because no estrogenic metabolites are generated either.

    SD is the cleanest one out there. Cleaner than Var, and slightly cleaner than Dec androgenically. It didn't even make me oily, it's gotta be the safest one to the hair and prostate available today. I say no precautions are required. Some Niz shampoo maybe, but it really shouldn't help or be needed. Min is all you can do, but probably is quite unnecessary.

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    Thanks, Dr.D. Great info.
    Maybe that's whay I had no problems with 4AD, becuase I was taking propecia all the time.

    I'd rather know the facts than let my hair be a test (no pun intended...M1t) subject again.

    I should try SD. M1t is amazing for the muscles, but it's like a nuclear bomb on my hair. I'm really lucky I had so much hair to start with, so the loss is manageable.

    Regards,

    SB

    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Well, 4AD is very androgenic. More so that test itself, so expect more DHT conversion than estro if you ask me. The Fin, Spiro, and Niz will be great here.

    19-diol is going to convert to Dec at ~16% so it's going to form a little 19-Nor-DHT. That's what you don't want to block, but the amount is so small that unless your using fat does or actually using Dec itself that it's probably a non-factor. No hair drugs are really helpful but Min.

    19-dione is not converted effeciently to estrone as may believe, it's actually a mild AI, so estrogen and DHT sides should be very low with this one. No hair stuff needed at all.

    1T and M1T are already very androgenic on their own, so the fact that they can not be activated my 5-a-reductase just means that Min is all that can really help. Spiro, Niz and Fin will do nothing, because no estrogenic metabolites are generated either.

    SD is the cleanest one out there. Cleaner than Var, and slightly cleaner than Dec androgenically. It didn't even make me oily, it's gotta be the safest one to the hair and prostate available today. I say no precautions are required. Some Niz shampoo maybe, but it really shouldn't help or be needed. Min is all you can do, but probably is quite unnecessary.

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    1T and M1T are already very androgenic on their own, so the fact that they can not be activated my 5-a-reductase just means that Min is all that can really help. Spiro, Niz and Fin will do nothing, because no estrogenic metabolites are generated either
    Are you sure about this? Fin I agree will not help with 1T or M1T but Spiro is a androgen blocker (side effect it has). Which means that it should block any androgen activity in the skin. I will grant you that Spiro is not that strong, nor does it last very long in the skin. And Niz is suspected to be a DHT blocker but I have read were many think it has anti-inflamitory properties, so it could work well ageinst 1T and M1T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    Are you sure about this? Fin I agree will not help with 1T or M1T but Spiro is a androgen blocker (side effect it has). Which means that it should block any androgen activity in the skin. I will grant you that Spiro is not that strong, nor does it last very long in the skin. And Niz is suspected to be a DHT blocker but I have read were many think it has anti-inflamitory properties, so it could work well ageinst 1T and M1T.
    I was wondering the exact same thing regarding:

    Quote Originally Posted by DR. D
    1T and M1T are already very androgenic on their own, so the fact that they can not be activated my 5-a-reductase just means that Min is all that can really help. Spiro, Niz and Fin will do nothing, because no estrogenic metabolites are generated either.
    You also mentioned that 4ad is more androgenic than test. I ran 19nor w/ 4ad and I did not experience any hair loss. I was only using minox at the time. Does my failure to shed reveal anything about potential response I might have to M1T. I have a small supply and I'm thinking about running a couple of 2 week 5mg cycles at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSULLA
    Are you sure about this? Fin I agree will not help with 1T or M1T but Spiro is a androgen blocker (side effect it has). Which means that it should block any androgen activity in the skin. I will grant you that Spiro is not that strong, nor does it last very long in the skin. And Niz is suspected to be a DHT blocker but I have read were many think it has anti-inflamitory properties, so it could work well ageinst 1T and M1T.
    No your right actually, but it depends on affinity though. The highest wins, so spriro may help if it competes with higher affinity that M1t or 1T. I just assumed it didn't but it might. Also, Niz is more than just an AI, it stops most steroid biosynthesis, so it will help in that the skin would be stop making it's own androgens, but it can't stop or compete at the receptor with M1t or 1T. I suggest Minox because it increases blood flow to the follicle which will nourish it and work on anything your using to help hair thickness remain. I also suggest a sebaceous gland reducer like tretinoin cream or liquid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf
    I was wondering the exact same thing regarding:

    You also mentioned that 4ad is more androgenic than test. I ran 19nor w/ 4ad and I did not experience any hair loss. I was only using minox at the time. Does my failure to shed reveal anything about potential response I might have to M1T. I have a small supply and I'm thinking about running a couple of 2 week 5mg cycles at some point.
    Oh yeah, you should try it for sure. It's something else! I must be honest, even on anadrol, dbol, test or M1T, when I get very oily, I never shed. I have done some high dose cycles and my hair just remains. I am hot natured and my head stays hot plus I think I'm just not prone to loss. If you had no probs w/ the combos you mentioned, I think it probably says about you that you could get away with at least 5mg M1T. Use minox for insurance.

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    Thanks, D. I neglected to mention that I definitely have the MPB gene. I had shed considerably before ever touching phs/aas. I've been using minox for about 3 years now, and I recently added spiro, niz and aa. My hair has actually come back to a degree. So I definitely have mpb, but it is stabilized, and 4AD did nothing to me. I just wonder if I can generalize about phs/aas in general based on not losing hair with 4ad.

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