Poll: For a 26 week blast: best addition to 250mg TestE/week?

Testosterone vs Equipose (Boldenone)

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    Question Testosterone vs Equipose (Boldenone)


    I've read quite a lot over several months regarding equipoIse. I know some people love it, others don't feel it has done anything for them. It is generally accepted that gains are slow and steady of a longer period of time, and because of alternative compounds available, many prefer other substitutes.

    We know that Boldenone is very similar to testosterone -- just as anabolic and half as androgenic. And from this comes my question, which I cannot find an answer to anywhere.

    If Boldenone is just as anabolic and half as androgenic as testosterone:
    A) What is the actual benefit of adding boldenone to a cycle, as opposed to doubling the test instead?
    B) Is doubling the test (instead of a test to boldenone ratio of 1:1) going to give lesser, equal, or similar results?

    This is where I'm stuck. To add boldenone at a 1:1 ratio, or to double test. Not interested in other compounds at this time, I have my reasons, I know enough, I just need THIS question answered (why would Boldenone be better than doubling test -- what's the benefit? Does it offer something test doesnt?)

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    Equipoise was actually created while attempting to make a product which would be be a long acting injectable d-bol (Methandrostenolone). What was actually created was a product which, in the real world acts nothing like D-bol, despite its similarity to it chemically. A simple way to think of Equipoise, chemically at least, is simply as Dianabol without the 17-alpha-methyl group (thats the thing which makes D-bol able to be ingested orally and not be destroyed by your liver). However, having had first hand experience with both Equipoise as well as D-bol, I can tell you that the results from each are vastly different.

    To make Equipoise, a double bond was added between carbon atoms 1 and 2 of the Steran Nucleus of Testosterone. What does this mean? Well, first of all, since Equipoise was created by one simple modification in the testosterone molecule, you could rightly suspect that it shares many similarities with it. Equipoise is just as anabolic as testosterone (as you can tell by its anabolic rating above), but only half as androgenic. Those ratings can be quite deceiving though, as I don't know anyone who would claim that you can gain as much weight on Equipoise as you can gain on an equal amount of testosterone (even though strength gains from the two compounds are very similar).

    Its not very common to compare Equipoise to testosterone; however a far more common comparison is between Equipoise and Deca. I suspect this is because when Dan Duchaine introduced this compound to the steroid using community, he made an immediate comparison to Deca, speculating that it would act similarly to Deca but like a much stronger version of it. Equipoise doesn't actually act much like deca at all; Deca is actually a progestin and a 19-nor derived steroid whereas Equipoise is more closely related to testosterone (being only one double bond differ rent). Duchaine later rescinded his original statement on Equipoise and said that it was disappointing as a mass builder when compared with deca, but a far better drug than for both strength gains and vascularity. Unfortunately, the myth that Equipoises action is similar to Deca's has persisted for nearly 2 decades after he revised his opinion; this is most evident on internet message boards today, where many will advise against including both of them in a cycle because "they act the same way."

    The 1-2 double bond that Equipoise has is responsible for many of its characteristics. First of all, it acts to slow aromatization (conversion into estrogen). The best estimate is that it does so at roughly half the rate of testosterone (1). This is the best number Ive found in studies. Athletes almost never report estrogenic side effects with Equipoise, even when the dose is up to a gram per week. Side effects caused by estrogen include oily skin, acne, and gynocomastia, and as I said, those are usually not found from Equipoise. Virilization (development of male sexual characteristics in women) is almost never seen with this compound, when reasonable doses are used by female athletes. This is one of the few injectable compounds which could be successfully be used by female athletes and bodybuilders, and isn't often faked.
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    Thanks Dub, that was very informative. As you stated, "since Equipoise was created by one simple modification in the testosterone molecule, you could rightly suspect that it shares many similarities with it. Equipoise is just as anabolic as testosterone (as you can tell by its anabolic rating above), but only half as androgenic. Those ratings can be quite deceiving though, as I don't know anyone who would claim that you can gain as much weight on Equipoise as you can gain on an equal amount of testosterone (even though strength gains from the two compounds are very similar)."

    This is why I'm wondering: what is the benefit to introducing equipoise into a cycle, versus simply increasing the amount of testosterone? Afterall, testosterone is more androgenic. What are your thoughts?
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    I think its more like a long acting injectable winny since it is great for vascularity .....and it seems for increased RBC and/or blood flow....not sure how necessary it is if you have access to test other than stacking the two so you get the specific benefits of both (duh lol).
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    As a versatile steroid the Equipoise steroid greatly increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis; a trait shared by many anabolic steroids but it definitely carries other traits worthy of note. The Equipoise steroid is well-equipped in increasing the release of erythropoietin more so than many other hormones of a performance nature. This is of both an interesting and important note as erythropoietin is a hormone responsible for red-blood cell output and production and this means our red blood cell count goes dramatically up.

    d-anabol,Dianabol,Steroids
    Only mildly androgenic yet decently anabolic the Equipoise steroid carries one potential trait that many performance enhancers find of particular interest and it is that of appetite stimulation. Many performance enhancers supplement with this anabolic steroid during their off-season in order to eat the necessary needed calories per day to grow that would otherwise be impossible to consume. Yes, absolutely, the Equipoise steroid also plays a positive role on our total metabolic function allowing for a more pleasing physique despite excess calories. This is not a license to eat but the individual who supplements with the steroid will be able to consume and process a larger amount of calories than he would be without EQ.. iy produces slow lean quality gains, doubles red blood cell count makes you look vascular as **** an pumped look all day. Increases appetite drastically
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    I don't have an intention of pinning and I still found your posts very interesting. Good stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by dubfungus View Post
    As a versatile steroid the Equipoise steroid greatly increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis; a trait shared by many anabolic steroids but it definitely carries other traits worthy of note. The Equipoise steroid is well-equipped in increasing the release of erythropoietin more so than many other hormones of a performance nature. This is of both an interesting and important note as erythropoietin is a hormone responsible for red-blood cell output and production and this means our red blood cell count goes dramatically up.

    d-anabol,Dianabol,Steroids
    Only mildly androgenic yet decently anabolic the Equipoise steroid carries one potential trait that many performance enhancers find of particular interest and it is that of appetite stimulation. Many performance enhancers supplement with this anabolic steroid during their off-season in order to eat the necessary needed calories per day to grow that would otherwise be impossible to consume. Yes, absolutely, the Equipoise steroid also plays a positive role on our total metabolic function allowing for a more pleasing physique despite excess calories. This is not a license to eat but the individual who supplements with the steroid will be able to consume and process a larger amount of calories than he would be without EQ.. iy produces slow lean quality gains, doubles red blood cell count makes you look vascular as **** an pumped look all day. Increases appetite drastically
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony soprano View Post
    I don't have an intention of pinning and I still found your posts very interesting. Good stuff.
    I believe they are 95% direct cut and paste from steroids.com etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post

    I believe they are 95% direct cut and paste from steroids.com etc.
    I was gonna a say the same..lol

    I've been on Eq with Test most of the year. Its my cruise stack. I like it over DECA because for me I feel the muscle gained is leaner more dense than DECA.

    On a blast cycle I'll run Eq as well. My blast is Test, Eq, anadrol and Tren.

    I honestly feel like Eq is the way to go if Tren is not an option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    I believe they are 95% direct cut and paste from steroids.com etc.
    Copy pasta? A citation would have been nice.
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    Oh it is id try an explain it but . There a good source an basically cover what I would of told him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubfungus View Post
    Oh it is id try an explain it but . There a good source an basically cover what I would of told him.
    Yeah but you should note "i got this from xxx site". I knew the EQ profile practically by heart since I've referred to it dozens of times over the years since EQ can be confusing and confounding ...a simple reference goes a long way....I get sick and tired of citations at the university...but its only fair.
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    Haha agreed man . My bad .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Speed View Post
    I was gonna a say the same..lol

    I've been on Eq with Test most of the year. Its my cruise stack. I like it over DECA because for me I feel the muscle gained is leaner more dense than DECA.

    On a blast cycle I'll run Eq as well. My blast is Test, Eq, anadrol and Tren.

    I honestly feel like Eq is the way to go if Tren is not an option.
    This is really helpful and exactly what i wanted to hear about - personal experience cruising on test and eq because that's my plan. i'm not ready for tren yet for various reasons. i still make a lot of progress just cruising on just 250mg test e per week. it's a lot of hard work but i feel my gains are earned. i want to take to the next level and "supplement my cruise with an additional compound, but i want to save the crasy **** (tren) for later in my progress, a few years out, when i have built a more solid foundation.

    whats your cruise dose of test and eq that you've been happy with? while we're here, what's your blast dose as well (including tren)? thanks again brother.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony soprano View Post
    Copy pasta? A citation would have been nice.

    You would call it pasta
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    Anybodyyyy?

    My question is: what's a good cruise dose of test and eq, vs a blast dose (as well any additional compounds) and what you experienced?
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    It's gona depend on the person.

    EQ has low affinity to bind so people smash in high amounts with little problems; 750mg I know of for sure and that's over long durations too.

    Test you could run 800mg as many do but everyone is different and has different sides at different doses.

    I wouldn't run test above 400mg on cycle and wouldn't 'blast' either so hard too say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T boy View Post
    It's gona depend on the person.

    EQ has low affinity to bind so people smash in high amounts with little problems; 750mg I know of for sure and that's over long durations too.

    Test you could run 800mg as many do but everyone is different and has different sides at different doses.

    I wouldn't run test above 400mg on cycle and wouldn't 'blast' either so hard too say.
    That's what id do....400 test 800 EQ ....but im not a fan of mega dosing test like most are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    That's what id do....400 test 800 EQ ....but im not a fan of mega dosing test like most are.
    I'm not a fan of mega-dosing test either; I've learned a lot about my body over the last few cycles, and frankly, I feel there is a very, very small difference between 500mg of test per week vs. 250mg of test per week. 250mg for me is perfect for continuous progress without the bloated feeling I had on 500mg (my face was getting round).

    I've pretty much decided to stay on 250mg per week year around and I'm not coming off. Since I've got a time-tested understanding of my body and how it responds, i'm curious to experiment with other compounds and take it to the next level while maintaining a 250mg test base.

    Can I expect differential gains by making my cruising protocol 250mg TestE per week + 250mg EQ per week? And if so, what can I expect over a 6month to 12 month period?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisces.style View Post
    Anybodyyyy?

    My question is: what's a good cruise dose of test and eq, vs a blast dose (as well any additional compounds) and what you experienced?
    I cruise on 600mg test E or C. And 600mg Eq.

    Now I'm blasting with 600mg tren, 300mg Eq, and 600mg test and 50mg ED of Anadrol.
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    Damn man, you're a beast. How long does your blast usually last? Got any pics?
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    I blast for 10-12 weeks. Then cruise just as long. I'd upload pics but I can't figure out how to from my phone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisces.style View Post
    I've read quite a lot over several months regarding equipoIse. I know some people love it, others don't feel it has done anything for them. It is generally accepted that gains are slow and steady of a longer period of time, and because of alternative compounds available, many prefer other substitutes.

    We know that Boldenone is very similar to testosterone -- just as anabolic and half as androgenic. And from this comes my question, which I cannot find an answer to anywhere.

    If Boldenone is just as anabolic and half as androgenic as testosterone:
    A) What is the actual benefit of adding boldenone to a cycle, as opposed to doubling the test instead?
    B) Is doubling the test (instead of a test to boldenone ratio of 1:1) going to give lesser, equal, or similar results?

    This is where I'm stuck. To add boldenone at a 1:1 ratio, or to double test. Not interested in other compounds at this time, I have my reasons, I know enough, I just need THIS question answered (why would Boldenone be better than doubling test -- what's the benefit? Does it offer something test doesnt?)
    Its just as anabolic on paper, not so much in reality. The fact that it undergoes structural changes alters the pharmacokinetics substantially (namely AR binding), and then it arises the question of whether or not you're getting true eq from a source instead of watered down test (eq is liquid at room temperature, so its riskier for labs to import this from china).

    All things being considered, you would have much better gains simply using the dose you had allocated for EQ on testosterone, or deca. EQ is a great compound for specific uses as it adds a shape to yourself than can only be described as a "fullness", however i feel the gains are very nill and consider this more along the lines of a cosmetic like masteron.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Its just as anabolic on paper, not so much in reality. The fact that it undergoes structural changes alters the pharmacokinetics substantially (namely AR binding), and then it arises the question of whether or not you're getting true eq from a source instead of watered down test (eq is liquid at room temperature, so its riskier for labs to import this from china).

    All things being considered, you would have much better gains simply using the dose you had allocated for EQ on testosterone, or deca. EQ is a great compound for specific uses as it adds a shape to yourself than can only be described as a "fullness", however i feel the gains are very nill and consider this more along the lines of a cosmetic like masteron.
    Interesting perspective, I hadn't come across anything like this before. You're saying that the effects of EQ is more aesthetic (and apparently Masteron does this? never used it) rather than lean and keepable? Could you elaborate on what "cosmetic" effect it has? I'm attracted to the "hardness, leaness and vascularity" that I've read eq provides, but your comment states otherwise and I'm curious to know more about why you think that. Thanks man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisces.style View Post
    Interesting perspective, I hadn't come across anything like this before. You're saying that the effects of EQ is more aesthetic (and apparently Masteron does this? never used it) rather than lean and keepable? Could you elaborate on what "cosmetic" effect it has? I'm attracted to the "hardness, leaness and vascularity" that I've read eq provides, but your comment states otherwise and I'm curious to know more about why you think that. Thanks man.
    Its not so much a hardening drug, as in it doesnt give that grainy look that tren/masteron/winstrol can provide. It seems to make your muscles "pop" more, at least in my experience. I notice substantially more capping off in the delts, quad sweep, etc. Greater vascularity is true with this drug, however it doesnt seem to bring much in the realm of actual lean mass gains. This look also vanishes when the drug clears your system. I would run it during the summer months or during pre contes, otherwise it doesnt seem very beneficial.

    Testosterone is still king of lean mass in my opinion. If you're concerned with water retention simply use a higher AI dose and watch the sodium. Side effects are typically nill and gains are extremely lasting and solid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinhy View Post
    Its not so much a hardening drug, as in it doesnt give that grainy look that tren/masteron/winstrol can provide. It seems to make your muscles "pop" more, at least in my experience. I notice substantially more capping off in the delts, quad sweep, etc. Greater vascularity is true with this drug, however it doesnt seem to bring much in the realm of actual lean mass gains. This look also vanishes when the drug clears your system. I would run it during the summer months or during pre contes, otherwise it doesnt seem very beneficial.

    Testosterone is still king of lean mass in my opinion. If you're concerned with water retention simply use a higher AI dose and watch the sodium. Side effects are typically nill and gains are extremely lasting and solid.
    Bummer, that grainy look is exactly what I was going after, but I still don't feel that I'm ready for Tren yet. It's good to know that the look vanishes when the drug clears the system, so I'll either have to time this just right or stay on for a long time. Do you think that 250mg per week is enough, or is there really merit to 500mg per week of eq to achieve that look?

    Also, would you have any reason not to run Eq. & Test "permanently" as a low dose cruise of 250mg each per week? Thanks again.
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    Not too sure on 'permanent EQ use' but long durations suit it as it takes a whole to kick in.

    In terms of its effect it does 'shape' more than say deca which adds more size but not exactly a hard look to it if you know what I mean? The vasculArity is from the increased red blood cell count. This could be an issue I would guess over time as it will effectively thicken the blood and raise your BP very high.

    If it's lean and hard you want a course of test and EQ could be finished with winni? Or ping in some masteron? Also keep and AI on the go to avoid excess water.
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    I would personally add EQ at 600mg weekly, but that's just me
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggiesmallz View Post
    I would personally add EQ at 600mg weekly, but that's just me
    Is this what you've run in the past? If so, for how long, what was your test base amount, and what were your results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T boy View Post
    Not too sure on 'permanent EQ use' but long durations suit it as it takes a whole to kick in.

    In terms of its effect it does 'shape' more than say deca which adds more size but not exactly a hard look to it if you know what I mean? The vasculArity is from the increased red blood cell count. This could be an issue I would guess over time as it will effectively thicken the blood and raise your BP very high.

    If it's lean and hard you want a course of test and EQ could be finished with winni? Or ping in some masteron? Also keep and AI on the go to avoid excess water.
    This is good info, thanks T. I can't get into winni because I'm avoiding highly androgenic compounds at the moment, and only sticking with substances that are easy on the hairline. I'm still not 100% certain if I'm prone to MPB, my family has mixed genetics where some people from the same mother go bald and others don't, and I don't know where I fall, but I did feel like I shed a bit when I took superdrol 2 years ago.

    I don't know all that much about Masteron but I'll look into it. If you used it, I'd like to hear your experience. Thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisces.style View Post
    Is this what you've run in the past? If so, for how long, what was your test base amount, and what were your results?
    You can use EQ with a test base, or with no test base... I wouldn't run it lower than 600 personally. I've also never used it without a test base, only ran it once and still running it... with test. It's very similar to testosterone in its anabolic activity... slow, lean, steady gains. Very minimal estrogen conversion, if any. Increased RBC count. Improved endurance. Good for aerobic type activity, as well as lifting in general. Awesome for vascularity. Also boosts appetite quite a bit... I would run it for at least 16 weeks for it to truly shine. The test base you proposed (250mg/wk) would be plenty, I've used it with 600mg test weekly... currently kind of blasting/cruising with it (the blast part would be peppered in orals here and there), I personally like it. Very lean anabolic, also pretty safe
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    It does seem some people will lose hair regardless. I haven't had a problem with kit effecting my hair but I know others who have; it's a tricky one! I wouldn't dare advise coz my hair is very strong and after my old man died he had grown hair his face, 2 weeks after the ****er died! I think it's just one of them where you do whatever and have no issues or you think about drinking a protein shake and it's all gone!!!

    There is some kit out there that people use to thicken hair and fight off balding. Worth a look maybe?
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    I was on EQ in my avatar. The results from it are pretty negligible compared to most steroids. I didn't even notice anything from it until about week 10. Longer runs are a must which isn't a problem for you (26 weeks). Things I noticed after week 10 were great vascularity all the time, good pumps due to higher hematocrit maybe, slight leaning effect even with increased calories. Didn't do much for my appetite. Even at just a low dose, it would be good for a blast or cruise though for the collagen related effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T boy View Post
    It does seem some people will lose hair regardless. I haven't had a problem with kit effecting my hair but I know others who have; it's a tricky one! I wouldn't dare advise coz my hair is very strong and after my old man died he had grown hair his face, 2 weeks after the ****er died! I think it's just one of them where you do whatever and have no issues or you think about drinking a protein shake and it's all gone!!!

    There is some kit out there that people use to thicken hair and fight off balding. Worth a look maybe?
    I'm weary of those kits to fight baldness; from what I understand, sometimes they can either do more harm than good, or you can become dependent on them. I'm reasonably happy with where I'm at, I just want to take it to the next level but the risk/reward ratio of using substances that can affect my sweet mane is just too high right now thanks though!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKrabbe View Post
    I was on EQ in my avatar. The results from it are pretty negligible compared to most steroids. I didn't even notice anything from it until about week 10. Longer runs are a must which isn't a problem for you (26 weeks). Things I noticed after week 10 were great vascularity all the time, good pumps due to higher hematocrit maybe, slight leaning effect even with increased calories. Didn't do much for my appetite. Even at just a low dose, it would be good for a blast or cruise though for the collagen related effects.
    Okay, this is consistent with a lot of what I have read: longer cycle, leaning out, vascularity, etc. Good to know. Were you running in the 500-600mg per week range as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by biggiesmallz View Post
    You can use EQ with a test base, or with no test base... I wouldn't run it lower than 600 personally. I've also never used it without a test base, only ran it once and still running it... with test. It's very similar to testosterone in its anabolic activity... slow, lean, steady gains. Very minimal estrogen conversion, if any. Increased RBC count. Improved endurance. Good for aerobic type activity, as well as lifting in general. Awesome for vascularity. Also boosts appetite quite a bit... I would run it for at least 16 weeks for it to truly shine. The test base you proposed (250mg/wk) would be plenty, I've used it with 600mg test weekly... currently kind of blasting/cruising with it (the blast part would be peppered in orals here and there), I personally like it. Very lean anabolic, also pretty safe
    Definitely running with a test base of 250mg minimum unless I decide to but on a bit more mass during the winter months. I'm just tried of having to buy new suits and work shirts because they don't fit me anymore, haha. Also good to know that 250mmg of eq for week for a long cycle would be enough to see results. I'll start slow and see where I'm at in 4 months, and I'll report back to you guys along the way to let you know where my progress is at. Thanks man.
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    Take the plunge!! A shaved head may suit you!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by T boy View Post
    Take the plunge!! A shaved head may suit you!!!!
    Hahahaha, maybe, but only when I have no other options then I might as well become a tren freak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisces.style View Post
    Also good to know that 250mmg of eq for week for a long cycle would be enough to see results.
    I'm not entirely sure where you gathered this, but I wouldn't suggest anything less than 600mg eq weekly. 250mg test base is plenty, but eq at anything less than 600 is likely to disappoint. Maybe if you're really sensitive, mayhaps 500 weekly would be ok. Feel it out for yourself. 600 for me was plenty, some guys run it past a gram, I'm not too fond of that idea (they're also usually about 1 and a half times my size... so sort of makes sense) up to you brosky, just wanted to clear up the apparent miscommunication
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    I agree with biggie. I ran it at 800.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKrabbe View Post
    I agree with biggie. I ran it at 800.
    Quote Originally Posted by biggiesmallz View Post
    I'm not entirely sure where you gathered this, but I wouldn't suggest anything less than 600mg eq weekly. 250mg test base is plenty, but eq at anything less than 600 is likely to disappoint. Maybe if you're really sensitive, mayhaps 500 weekly would be ok. Feel it out for yourself. 600 for me was plenty, some guys run it past a gram, I'm not too fond of that idea (they're also usually about 1 and a half times my size... so sort of makes sense) up to you brosky, just wanted to clear up the apparent miscommunication
    Looks like I had a misunderstanding here, thanks for the correction. Since Biggie and I are about the same size (if your stats are correct), seems like it makes sense for me to run it at 600. BigK is a full 50lbs heavier than us which also makes sense that 800 mg was right for him. I'll dial up my dosage accordingly -- glad I got your feedback.

    One more thing - does it make sense to pin once a week or twice a week? What's your experience?
  

  
 

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