Enanthate, Var and Tbol - Critique Required

[Number 10]

Ok, it's been a while since I've been on here, but I wanted to get some critique on a cycle I have planned for early next year, and also have a few questions regarding PCT and how to run the orals down at the end. I've done a lot of research and have done one AAS cycle previously (VAR & Test) and quite a few PH cycles a few years ago, but want to make sure I get this one right. First up, the basics...

Age - 26
Height - 6'1" (183cm)
Weight - 13st 5lbs currently (85.8kg)
Bodyfat - 13.6% (up from 11.2% due to poor diet on holiday)
BMR - 2198 kCals

Current training - (I do power in the AM and hypertrophy in the PM) Monday - Chest, Tuesday - Biceps & Triceps, Wednesday - Legs & Core, Thursday - Chest, Friday - Back & Shoulders, Saturday, Legs, Core & Cardio (Rugby), Sunday - Rest!

Current Diet - Fairly clean, high in good fats and slow release carbs. Minimum 250 - 300g protein per day, consisting of 3 x 40g shakes plus roast lamb or beef portions during the day every 3 hours and chicken w/ eggs at night. Calorie intake around 3,500 - 4,000 per day (I have a fast metabolism) seems to allow me to bulk fairly cleanly without putting on excess fat or bloat. It's probably the best my diet has been for some time.

Ok, so I'm planning on doing a clean bulk early next year ready for the summer, with my aim to clean bulk again with the last 2 - 3 weeks focused on cutting. By the time I start the cycle I'll likely be around 14 stone, but I want to end it around 14 stone but with a large reduction in bodyfat (3 - 4%). I figured I'd be best trying to build as much muscle as possible for most of the cycle, before using the last few weeks to cut. The cycle is based around Test Enanthate base with Tbol and Anavar to start and end:

Weeks 1 - 6 - 500mg Test Enanthate per week (single shot)
Weeks 1 - 4 - 100mg Anavar per day
Weeks 1 - 4 - 50mg Tbol per day
Weeks 7 - 12 - 750mg Test Enanthate per week (split into two shots every 3.5 days)
Weeks 9 - 12 - 100mg Anavar per day
Weeks 9 - 12 - 60mg Tbol per day

Weeks 2 - 13 - 600IU HCG per week (split into two shots every 3.5 days)
Weeks 1 - 13 - 25mg Aromasin per day

Weeks 14 - 18 - Clomid at 40/20/20/20
Weeks 14 - 18 - Nolva at 75/50/50/50 per day

Standard supplements will include multivitamin, fish oils, BCAA's and CEE, and on cycle I'll be using CEL - Perfect Cycle to support the liver.

A few questions; firstly, am I getting the HCG protocol right going into my PCT? I've read the boards and it seems there's conflicting information about whether to carry on into PCT or to stop before. At 12 weeks usage at 600IU per week, I shouldn't experience any desensitization to it either I wouldn't think.

Secondly, will I need aromasin on cycle or am I being over cautious? As I remember, Tbol and Var don't aromatise?

Thirdly, there'll be a week where I've had my last Test shot at the beginning of week 12, but will need to wait until the start of week 14 to run PCT. I won't be taking orals that week, is that right or should I push those out to start week 10?

Finally, I've looked at Winny and read a lot about it, but not tried it yet. I know I'll likely be told to blast with DBol at the start, and finish with Winny at the end, but I'm not keen on the dried out joints. I've never had any issue with gyno, but I did a stupid M1T and Phera cycle a few years back where I bloated like crazy, so want to try and avoid that. Are Tbol and Anavar suitable for the cut at the end?

If I've missed any information off, or you have any questions, let me know.

 

[mustang0341]

Hey man, cycle looks good. A few suggestions i have is to pulse the tbol; 20 on off days and as high as 80 on workout days. Top dose is dependent on pumps and sides. I pulsed as high as 80 towards the end of my 6wks. Var dose is pretty high too man, tone that back. Your cycle is almost identical to what i will run next except i will switch the orals, var 1st and end with tbol. Also maybe just stay at 750 test all the way through. And try starting the arom at 12.5 eod and adjust to ed then to 25ed if needed. I would also split the orals tbol 1-6 var 7-12 or vice versa instead of running them both all the way through. While they are not all that toxic your liver will thank you. Your nolv/clomid dosages need to be reversed...70 is a high dose of nolv bro. 40/40/20/20 and clomid is generally 100 for 4days then 50/50/25/25 or something similar. Though I dont have experience running them together. Last cycle i ran test C 500wk with tbol up front and finished with winny/mast. Also there is a bada?? cycle template run by "howwedo" that ass damn near what you are running, you should search him and check it out!

 

[Number 10]

Thanks mate, I've spent a lot of time on my research this time around, and didn't want to ask any stupid questions. Will probably log this when I do it, complete with body and lifting stats and progression.

Pulsing the Tbol would give me a weekly dose of 500mg vs 350mg in weeks 1 - 4 and 420mg in weeks 9 - 12. Is that not too high a cumulative dose, especially for someone my relative size? What would be the benefits of pulsing, just out of interest?

If I did switch them, which one is going to be better for a clean "kick" at the start, and which one is going to help more with the cut at the end?

Cheers for the advice on the aromasin, I'll definitely look at that.

Is my PCT wrong then? Should I not take nolva and clomid together? I thought the general school of thought from reading on here was that they worked in different ways.

Appreciate the advice mate, thank you.

 

[mustang0341]

When i ran tbol i was as high as 60ed and my backpumps were super painful, even taking taurine and supplementing potassium. When i started pulsing the pumps were lessened considerably. Also when pulsing take the tbol about 60mins pre-w and the strenght, mucle pump and vascularity are insane.

Tbol 1st to kick it will help with strength until the test kicks in and var at the end will cut you up nicely.

I have seen guys run nolv/clomid together but i haven't so i can't speeak to the dosing of both but imagine what i posted would suffice. That much AI would kill your joints though. When guys run the two it generally seems to be because nolv has better properties for attacking gyno. As i said though i don't have experience running them together so hopefully someone can add some input there.

 

[Number 10]

Yeah good point, I used to suffer with crazy back pumps back in my PH days so that's something I'll want to avoid. With T'bol having a half life of 9 hours (pretty sure I read that) would you split the dose during the day, or take the whole 80mg pre-workout?

Appreciate the advice Mustang.

Anyone have any other advice on nolva and clomid together for PCT? I'm sure the sticky here said to do them both, but don't want to dry the joints too much.

 

[jbryand101b]

160mg of oral methylated steroids is too much.

Why not 50/50?

And pulsing is stupid.

 

[Number 10]

Ok, so what would you suggest? Switching it up to do Tbol at the start with a 4 week break and then Var at the end?

Are you referring to clomid with the 50/50 comment or Tbol/Var? I've used Var once before and didn't really respond at 50mg per day.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Jbry means this:

Weeks 1-4 Var 50mg ED
Weeks 1-4 Tbol 50mg ED

Same thing with weeks 9-12. These 2 orals stacked at these doses is definitely plenty. I agree pulsing is stupid, just run them straight through.

 

[Number 10]

Ok cheers, taken that on board. Any thoughts on the other questions?

Am I getting the HCG protocol right going into my PCT? I've read the boards and it seems there's conflicting information about whether to carry on into PCT or to stop before. At 12 weeks usage at 600IU per week, I shouldn't experience any desensitization to it either I wouldn't think.

There'll be a week where I've had my last Test shot at the beginning of week 12, but will need to wait until the start of week 14 to run PCT. I won't be taking orals that week, is that right or should I push those out to start week 10? Do I want the orals to finish literally the day before PCT, or is the break of a week not going to matter as the Test is leaving my system?

 

[jbryand101b]

I would time the orals to go a week after last test shot, while the ester clears.

If running 12 weeks of test, cycle will be 13 weeks total.

 

[jbryand101b]

Hcg is fine.

50mg Clomid 4 weeks

Ai 6 weeks. 2 weeks after Clomid solo, tapering down.

 

[Number 10]

50mg Clomid 4 weeks

Ai 6 weeks. 2 weeks after Clomid solo, tapering down.

Cheers for the advice. Can you explain this please, I'm not quite following...

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Cheers for the advice. Can you explain this please, I'm not quite following...

Taper down your AI. For instance if you're using Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25

 

[jbryand101b]

Cheers for the advice. Can you explain this please, I'm not quite following...

Taper down your AI. For instance if you're using Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5/6.25/6.25

this ^ is regarding your basic pct protocol of ai + serm, making a 6 week pct plan,

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I would time the orals to go a week after last test shot, while the ester clears.

If running 12 weeks of test, cycle will be 13 weeks total.

Or better yet 2 weeks after last shot. Why not live dangerously?

 

[jbryand101b]

Or better yet 2 weeks after last shot. Why not live dangerously?

Sure, lol

 

[Number 10]

Cheers for the feedback all. I'll tweak it and put it up later to see if there's anything else I have missed or need to be looking at. Out if interest, has anyone experienced libido issues on this type of cycle? It's been a killer for me when I was messing about with PH's a few years back.

 

[mustang0341]

On test and tbol i was wearing my wife out

 

[Number 10]

On test and tbol i was wearing my wife out

Good to know...

 

[Number 10]

I saw a thread on here about Trenazone, and I forgot how much I loved that stuff when I used it. Would it be worth bringing that in to this cycle? If so, how and when?

 

[Lukef2000]

Looks like everyone else has said what I was going to. I agree with holic, run the orals up to the day before pct.

 

[Number 10]

Any thoughts on using dienazone instead of either T'bol or Var, and if so, at the front or back end of the cycle? As it's transdermal, with HCG could I run this all the way through?