Non Hormonal or Very Mild Pro Hormone

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    So why do people say don't bother with anything other than protein and creatine and all that stuff, unless you use something hormonal? Does everything else just not work as well or is there nothing else that is actually proven to work well?
    They're the essentials, really. Save your other money for good food since a good diet will give you better results than any of the other products on the market, hands down. Creatine, protein, fish oil, a good multi, and preworkout (last one is preferential) teamed with a heavy and clean diet will bring you a long way.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by pizzadrol View Post

    They're the essentials, really. Save your other money for good food since a good diet will give you better results than any of the other products on the market, hands down. Creatine, protein, fish oil, a good multi, and preworkout (last one is preferential) teamed with a heavy and clean diet will bring you a long way.
    This is very true especially since u are going to be bulking for the first time if u do it correctly you are going to be spending 25-40 bucks a day on food alone but I stand by what I said about the stack I am running It will serve you the same as a mild ph
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.
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  3. Are x gels better than X factor? Is it good stacked with DAA? Can you even safely run any of the pro hormones with everything coming from OTC? Or is it still not a good idea?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    Are x gels better than X factor? Is it good stacked with DAA? Can you even safely run any of the pro hormones with everything coming from OTC? Or is it still not a good idea?
    All of these products have possible side effects. It's recommended to run things solo first to see how your body acts before stacking.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Food and heavy lifting and more food.
    that's the recipe for success right there...
    "if there's one thing women love, it's a vascular man" - stewie griffin
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post

    I'm saying as long as you hit your callories and macros and 160g protein at the least you will be fine. Eating healthy isn't really going to improve body composition. Also don't listen to people saying eat like 250-300g of protein. It's stupid, doesn't do anything extra and if I am correct 25% of the calories you consume from protein are burned but I'm not sure.
    Sounds like a lot of ignorant broscience, brah.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Sounds like a lot of ignorant broscience, brah.
    That's not even bro science. It's total garbage.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post

    That's not even bro science. It's total garbage.
    I feel like having the word "minds" in the name of this site, should provoke less "don't listen to that, why? cuz it's stupid." remarks and more research-based discussions... But sometimes, not the case.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Sounds like a lot of ignorant broscience, brah.
    On the caloric expenditure of protein part, that's actually true. The TEF of protein can be as high as 30%.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    On the caloric expenditure of protein part, that's actually true. The TEF of protein can be as high as 30%.
    You're right. 20-35% Why I aim for closer to 400 grams daily. Every person at every weight, age, activity level and metabolism will be different, though. I would never advise someone on how much protein to eat daily though.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    That's not even bro science. It's total garbage.
    Actually the opposite is bro science. How is 300g of protein going to return more gains? It seems those callories would be better spent on carbs.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post

    Actually the opposite is bro science. How is 300g of protein going to return more gains? It seems those callories would be better spent on carbs.
    It probably would be better spent on carbs for an active 160 lb 21 year old. For myself, not at all. That's my point.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    It probably would be better spent on carbs for an active 160 lb 21 year old. For myself, not at all. That's my point.
    I would rather eat 500+ g of carbs and higher fats than super high protein. I seem to respond differently to carbs. If I don't eat a poptart or fruit before I lift I notice I am a bit weaker. If I don't eat carbs after a workout I notice my muscles are less full.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post
    Sounds like op is to immature to use anabolics even if he was 25+. Just started eating to gain mass? So you wasted 2 years of traning for no reason? Also op, if your dead set on it I've heard havoc is good, and also you could try xtreme dmz that comes with OTC pct. I would also get some hawthorn berry and milk thistle also. The dmz has some liver supports also so yeah, not incredible strength gains but mass is ehh alright. Stay safe.
    The OP is too immature to cycle, yet you're recommending SDMZ with an OTC PCT? Good call, hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post
    Op, don't waste money on non hormonal supps exept creatine, protein in case you don't hit 150-180 g of protein in a day, and some vitamins like six star from Walmart to save money. Also some fish oil caps even tho the six star pack has some fish oil in it.
    Because all non-hormonal supps are created equal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post
    No x gels. I've seen studies where it doesn't do anything. It's placebo. Also eating well doesn't do anything exept for maybe health. Don't be afraid of fats. I eat 110+ g of fat a day at 3.9k Cals. Anabeta eliete I would try. Sounds good but I rather buy the dmz with pct.
    So much win in this one...not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post
    I'm saying as long as you hit your callories and macros and 160g protein at the least you will be fine. Eating healthy isn't really going to improve body composition. Also don't listen to people saying eat like 250-300g of protein. It's stupid, doesn't do anything extra and if I am correct 25% of the calories you consume from protein are burned but I'm not sure.
    You have to be one of the most ignorant posters that I have seen in quite some time. Eating "healthy" won't help improve body comp? You should stop offering nonsensical advice and do some research on what you're spewing. You're a clown.


  15. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    The OP is too immature to cycle, yet you're recommending SDMZ with an OTC PCT? Good call, hero.

    Because all non-hormonal supps are created equal?

    So much win in this one...not.

    You have to be one of the most ignorant posters that I have seen in quite some time. Eating "healthy" won't help improve body comp? You should stop offering nonsensical advice and do some research on what you're spewing. You're a clown.
    i didn't mean immature, I meant inexperienced but anyways. Eating healthy wont make you gain more muscle or anything. Srs.


    And you've won.... Nothing! Are you happy?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Snicket63 View Post
    i didn't mean immature, I meant inexperienced but anyways. Eating healthy wont make you gain more muscle or anything. Srs. And you've won.... Nothing! Are you happy?
    Ok. Big difference between maturity and experience level. I would agree that he's not experienced enough (or old enough, for that matter) to consider cycling.
    As far as your next "point" is concerned, because the definition of "healthy" eating is always subject to interpretation, in some ways you are correct. Contrarily, a diet skewed too far toward one end of the spectrum won't produce the OP's intended gains. 3kcals worth of Cheetos isn't gonna have the same outcome as 3kcals of turkey breast and broccoli, catch my drift?
    My goal is not to win, not here. My goal is to help, and educate. Carry on.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    Are x gels better than X factor? Is it good stacked with DAA? Can you even safely run any of the pro hormones with everything coming from OTC? Or is it still not a good idea?
    They are the same substance I believe xfactor was one of the first ara supplements out but xgels can be found for a cheaper price and they are made by a great company. And stacking with Daa wouldn't hurt but at your age I doubt it would do much.
    To answer your question an OTC PCT is secondary to a serm when running a pH If you don't want to buy a serm I wouldn't mess with pH's you may gain some weight but u will loose it when u stop taking it because your natural hormones will be so out of whack.
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post
    Ok. Big difference between maturity and experience level. I would agree that he's not experienced enough (or old enough, for that matter) to consider cycling.
    As far as your next "point" is concerned, because the definition of "healthy" eating is always subject to interpretation, in some ways you are correct. Contrarily, a diet skewed too far toward one end of the spectrum won't produce the OP's intended gains. 3kcals worth of Cheetos isn't gonna have the same outcome as 3kcals of turkey breast and broccoli, catch my drift?
    My goal is not to win, not here. My goal is to help, and educate. Carry on.
    I completely agree. I meant he didn't need to eat chicken and brown rice every meal.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post
    They are the same substance I believe xfactor was one of the first ara supplements out but xgels can be found for a cheaper price and they are made by a great company. And stacking with Daa wouldn't hurt but at your age I doubt it would do much.
    To answer your question an OTC PCT is secondary to a serm when running a pH If you don't want to buy a serm I wouldn't mess with pH's you may gain some weight but u will loose it when u stop taking it because your natural hormones will be so out of whack.
    It's not that I don't want to run one, I just don't know where to get one that is reliable right now. And the ARA you run in 50 day cycles or is it different?

  20. Honestly, we got off base with this thread. You need to learn more about diet having recently started "eating a lot to get big"
    You'll be so much better off doing a lot of reading over the next year or two while dialing in a good bulking diet.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Honestly, we got off base with this thread. You need to learn more about diet having recently started "eating a lot to get big"
    You'll be so much better off doing a lot of reading over the next year or two while dialing in a good bulking diet.
    ^this knowing what food to eat will help u in the long run. So when u do decide to "supplement" something into your routine you will be able to maximize your gains.
    SNS REP
    Hit me up with any questions any time.

  22. I have a pretty good diet and have been reading on it for a while before I started it. I appreciate all the responses. Still just trying to learn more on what I should consider looking into now for when I'm ready. I would much rather spend a little extra money on something I know would actually give me gains that I could keep, like a pro hormone if done right, then waste it on something like X factor or x gels that may work for me. So what is one of the most mild non methylated ones that has been around a while? And how would it compare to gains on ARA or is it too hard to tell? Also are pro hormones safer than designer steroids?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    Also are pro hormones safer than designer steroids?
    Smh.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by rascal14 View Post
    Also are pro hormones safer than designer steroids?
    1. Most "prohormones" are not. They are designer steroids. They are active and don't require conversion to be such. There are non-methylated alternatives that require conversion on the market, and the company I rep for makes some. I will not recommend any of them to you, based on your age.
    2. Don't fcuk with your hormones. Stay natty until your t levels start to drop (25-35 for most males). The risk is not worth the reward. You JUST STARTED learning how to eat, try that for a while and enjoy your new guy gains.
    3. Thank me in five years, I'll still be here saying the same shlt.

  25. I already knew most things people say are pro hormones are actually designer steroids I just didn't know which was the safer option.
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