Why did you decide to hand in your natty card?

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  1. Meh I've never even thought of myself as natty given I have been on one stim or another for ADHD since I was 8 years old. Kind of changed my views of natty vs not from a very young age...

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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post

    I agree, but to an extent. There is a process that comes sometimes with age over the years and dedication. I was never "big" in my 20s and just gave up when I got married. 5 years later I started training at 30. Made lifestyle changes, had setbacks, but started to put it first in 2013. I've put on 40 lbs and I can guarantee you I will hit 260 before I start cutting for my first show. I think every genetic bodytype can achieve some kind of impressive physique or strength. Its a combination of how much you want it and learning what works what's best for you. Aas have a role for many but usually because of impatience.
    Well put, man! That's really encouraging for a somewhat novice, hard gainer like myself to hear. Repped asap.

    I have def impressed myself thus far. I'm only 29 and been lifting since I was 25. Went from 168lbs @ 15% to 220lbs down to 190 @ 8% now I'm 202 @ 10%. I think people can accomplish amazing things with their body if the dedication is there.

    I have too many hobbies haha. I want to be good at many thing but guitar comes first. Been playing for 18 years. Guitar is a perfect example of something extremely hard for people but something that certain people with drive can become incredible at in a lifetime.
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  3. Well 6, observe these photos below. I'm sure that people told the kid on the left the same thing they told you. You don't have the structure, you'll always be skinny, why do you even lift, whatever. Then he grew into the guy on the right. I say fukk a genetic ceiling. The only ceiling is the limit of how many years you put into this game and what you put in day in and day out for those years.
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

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    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

  5. Do it at a safe age probably around 28 to 30 . I do it because I frsuse to look average I wanna crack the ****ing side walk
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by herderdude View Post
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    Good Lord... thats crazy. Is this someone you know?

    I wonder how tall he is and how old he is in these pics. I mean... dude on the right just looks like he was genetically predisposed to be stout. I would have NEVER thought this could be the same person.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    Good Lord... thats crazy. Is this someone you know?

    I wonder how tall he is and how old he is in these pics. I mean... dude on the right just looks like he was genetically predisposed to be stout. I would have NEVER thought this could be the same person.
    That's Brandon Lilly.

  8. So then we are all in agreement that anyone can drastically increase the size of their wrists and ankles after adulthood? Bones and tendons?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    So then we are all in agreement that anyone can drastically increase the size of their wrists and ankles after adulthood? Bones and tendons?
    I would never want to. I love skinny wrists and ankles. My forearms are sexy

  10. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    So then we are all in agreement that anyone can drastically increase the size of their wrists and ankles after adulthood? Bones and tendons?
    Fukk yeah. Lifting increases bone density and bone size. Look at the wrists on Brandon Lilly. Tell me those didn't grow. He was 6 feet tall in both pictures. First picture: 165. Second picture: 325
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

  11. Well, picture is worth 1,000 words. This conversation has definitely opened my eyes a bit in the "genetics" argument.

    I will say I have put on 50lbs in 3+ years (100lbs+ added to bench and 150lbs+ added to squats) while gaining absolutely zero in ankle or wrist size. And I mean zero, maybe .1"! I can still touch my thumb and finger around my ankle just as easy as day 1. that dude gained 160 lbs and doubled his wrists, though.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Well, picture is worth 1,000 words. This conversation has definitely opened my eyes a bit in the "genetics" argument.

    I will say I have put on 50lbs in 3+ years (100lbs+ added to bench and 150lbs+ added to squats) while gaining absolutely zero in ankle or wrist size. And I mean zero, maybe .1"! I can still touch my thumb and finger around my ankle just as easy as day 1. that dude gained 160 lbs and doubled his wrists, though.
    What the **** is all this about making wrist and ankle size bigger? Biggest pile if counterproductive crap I've heard pardon me.. small wrists with bigger muscles make you look bigger duh.. my wrists are aboutbthe same diameter as my sister's and shes 5'4" . The infatuation with making the bone to muscle ratio smaller is about the weirded thing ive heard

  13. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Well, picture is worth 1,000 words. This conversation has definitely opened my eyes a bit in the "genetics" argument.

    I will say I have put on 50lbs in 3+ years (100lbs+ added to bench and 150lbs+ added to squats) while gaining absolutely zero in ankle or wrist size. And I mean zero, maybe .1"! I can still touch my thumb and finger around my ankle just as easy as day 1. that dude gained 160 lbs and doubled his wrists, though.
    A lot of that is muscle, but also consider that he was an equipped powerlifter for many years. In equipped lifting, the suits use your bones as levers. Scot Mendelson said the first time he tried to bench 1000, he could feel his bones flexing. As you continue to get stronger and you handle heavier weights more often, your bones, tendons, and ligaments will continue to grow.

    Now, people like your professional bodybuilders are always going to have small joints compared to their musculature, but you know those guys structure has grown and gotten stronger as well.
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

  14. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    What the **** is all this about making wrist and ankle size bigger? Biggest pile if counterproductive crap I've heard pardon me.. small wrists with bigger muscles make you look bigger duh.. my wrists are aboutbthe same diameter as my sister's and shes 5'4" . The infatuation with making the bone to muscle ratio smaller is about the weirded thing ive heard
    No one is trying to make their wrists bigger haha. We are discussing genetics and wrist and ankle size happen to have a close relation with your genetic make up. We are merely saying that contrary to popular bro science, wrist and ankle size can be increased dramatically as a result of the right training conditions and adaptations.

    I still feel like in that pic, Billy is a 1 in 10,000 kind of transformation that still (in my opinion) has to do with genetics allowing him to get there.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    No one is trying to make their wrists bigger haha. We are discussing genetics and wrist and ankle size happen to have a close relation with your genetic make up. We are merely saying that contrary to popular bro science, wrist and ankle size can be increased dramatically as a result of the right training conditions and adaptations.
    Lol I must have the wrong regimen because mine as far as bone thickness haven't seemed to grow but muscles and tendons apparently have..

  16. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    Yeah I think small diameter bones nake you look bigger.. as long as you dont have narrow shoulders and a big waste small bones play to any bodybuilders advantage. Think jay cutler versus phil heath. Jay is just wide from top to bottom while phil has big muacle bellies and little bones.
    Yeah for real...i have (smaller) medium bones so the scale weight is never there in great numbers...but i have retardedly big traps and wide shoulders...so that plus decent muscle between them small joints = muscular impressive looking physique that is always sub 200 lbs (at 5' 8"). And like you said...the smaller my waist the better it all works together.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post

    Yeah for real...i have (smaller) medium bones so the scale weight is never there in great numbers...but i have retardedly big traps and wide shoulders...so that plus decent muscle between them small joints = muscular impressive looking physique that is always sub 200 lbs (at 5' 8"). And like you said...the smaller my waist the better it all works together.
    Lucky haha!I am truely big boned. It took 4and 1/2 years for my clavicle to get hidden by my chest. I'm also going to blame it on my height.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  18. That pic comparison is called an aberration or an anomaly....that is NOT normal in 99.99% of people, sorry but it does happen, obviously.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    Lucky haha!I am truely big boned. It took 4and 1/2 years for my clavicle to get hidden by my chest. I'm also going to blame it on my height.
    Thank god! There's hope for me yet

  20. Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicHolic View Post
    That pic comparison is called an aberration or an anomaly....that is NOT normal in 99.99% of people, sorry but it does happen, obviously.
    I agree, not everyone is going to gain 165lbs in thirteen years, but I've gained 80 in the nine or so years I've been lifting, and you can go on down the line and find tons of people who have done the same.
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

  21. Not playing devil's advocate, I've had my share of genetics-based frustrations but I truly believe your limitations are where you perceive them to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to give it everything I have with the mindset that I COULD look like some of my role models. Shooting way too high and believing in yourself will produce impressive results, even if you come up short. Will I need gear to accomplish this at 35? Absolutely.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Not playing devil's advocate, I've had my share of genetics-based frustrations but I truly believe your limitations are where you perceive them to be. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to give it everything I have with the mindset that I COULD look like some of my role models. Shooting way too high and believing in yourself will produce impressive results, even if you come up short. Will I need gear to accomplish this at 35? Absolutely.
    That's what I've been thinking.


    I'm not gonna sit here and say lifting weights and eating will make your bones bigger (although density is another story).

    BUT, all I keep hearing are excuses about why you're not where you want to be (in reference to 6 1/2). It's hard to accomplish something when you're absolutely convinced you can't do it.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by herderdude View Post

    I agree, not everyone is going to gain 165lbs in thirteen years, but I've gained 80 in the nine or so years I've been lifting, and you can go on down the line and find tons of people who have done the same.
    It happens all the time...with varying degrees of size gains....but most are in the middle of the pack...whereas that guy was a .001 percenter with a 100% change in physique

  24. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    It's hard to accomplish something when you're absolutely convinced you can't do it.
    That's pretty much what it comes down to. Well put. Does it always matter? Maybe not always. I've know guys that don't have a clue about diet or training with far superior genetics than I and super-impressive physiques. But they aren't in it for the long haul, don't know how to cycle, burn out easily, and after 4 years of training, I look like they did 6 months in. Frustrating. But they burnt out and I exceeded my "limitations" by not believing that I have those limitations.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    That's what I've been thinking.

    I'm not gonna sit here and say lifting weights and eating will make your bones bigger (although density is another story).

    BUT, all I keep hearing are excuses about why you're not where you want to be (in reference to 6 1/2). It's hard to accomplish something when you're absolutely convinced you can't do it.
    Not where I want to be? Excuses? I think you misunderstood my statements, friend. Even you said you aren't likely going to be able to grow your bones so you obviously agree with me.

    I'm actually a compulsively competitive person. I was saying it will always be harder for someone with stick genes to look like a human wrecking ball. No one is going to tell my what I can and can't achieve, though.

    I'm very happy given my genetics. I've shut many friends up who didn't want me to get "my hopes" up. I went from 168lbs @ 15% to 204lbs @ 9% in 3.5 years. I think 204 @ 9% is respectable in that time considering I'm in a professional band, teach guitar classes, Bmx/mt bike, brew beer and work full time. I can only give lifting X amount of my time. I wish there was more hours in the day, trust me.

    Will I ever look like Billy? F*ck no.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post


    Will I ever look like Billy? F*ck no.
    I don't really understand why you couldn't with enough years of hard work and responsible cycling.
    I don't think believing you could and shooting really high is necessarily a bad thing though.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    I don't really understand why you couldn't with enough years of hard work and responsible cycling.
    I don't think believing you could and shooting really high is necessarily a bad thing though.
    I don't think shooting really high is ever bad either. Its what I do with anything I commit to. I guess anytime anyone on here makes statements like that its important to make sure they understand that anything is possible in a matter of words. Without trying you'd never know.

    But we are both tall (you're 6'5" right? I can't see on my phone) and have thin wrists. Mine are probably thinner than yours. We are 5-6 inches taller than him so we'd need to match his gains and then 50lbs more or so to obtain proportional results and double our wrist size (which I'm still not convinced just anyone can do). Possible? Yes but I mean come on... that's probably 200 lbs of respectable mass I'd need. I gained 35-40 in 3 years but with gear... who knows, right? There is no yes or no... only try. So I guess this was just a long way of agreeing, realistically haha

  28. I may have gone on them eventually without the reason I'm about to give but who knows. I've always been athletic but just couldn't gain much size. I decided to train hard and eat big all by the book, and I got some great gains. Just when I reached the body I had ALWAYS wanted and feeling super self-confident and happy I came down with a mysterious health syndrome that doctors to this day still haven't figured out, I basically lost everything AND SOME MORE. Now I am way better than I was but just not the person I was originally and there is no way I could undergo what I did before so my reason for going on is my ONLY WAY of getting that body back again.

    I've decided its worth the risk.

    Sucks though because I reached my goals natty once. I cant wait to see god.

  29. I just juice cuz I'm bored.
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  30. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    I just juice cuz I'm bored.
    ^^^^That is an awesome reason lol
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