Why did you decide to hand in your natty card?

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  1. That's a great point... Hard to notice that I don't even drink anymore or do any other drugs really, even still playing in a band.


  2. I realized that being "natural" was somewhat arbitrary, and that my wants and desires were beyond reach naturally. I've spend years and thousands on supplements, I could cut cost and time in half with the sauce, and get better results. Still haven't touched any PH/AAS yet, but this bulk I'll be doing a PH run. I'm an ecto, I've ate and lifted my way up 40lbs since I started. I put my time in, now its time to get "real".
    You are your own maker. Train dirty.
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  3. Another point, is that (as far as I know) AI/hormone modulators like aromisin and erase pro are "natural". I use those. When they become "banned" do I then become a "dirty" lifter? It all seems silly.

    I want to be bigger, stronger and more aesthetic, the juice is just another tool in our arsenal (like dieting or compound exercises IMO)
    You are your own maker. Train dirty.

  4. how does this play in TRT as I age more and my T levels don't decrease?

  5. Shortly after I started competing in the APF I realized I didn't stand a chance.....hello TRT...
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  6. I was to impatient after a few years of lifting and got something not realizing what it actually was... I didn't care though once I found out I used it anyway and have cycled a few times since then. I don't regret it but as others have said I wish I had waited a bit longer.
    Follow me on my log to life and lift: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229476-mtinsideouts-log-life.html

  7. My natural test is low/mid 400s but I'm too young for prescribed trt apparently.
    You are your own maker. Train dirty.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by kdeome View Post
    Another point, is that (as far as I know) AI/hormone modulators like aromisin and erase pro are "natural". I use those. When they become "banned" do I then become a "dirty" lifter? It all seems silly.

    I want to be bigger, stronger and more aesthetic, the juice is just another tool in our arsenal (like dieting or compound exercises IMO)
    i don't know too many people who would claim that RX drugs are natty. just because you won't get popped on a test doesn't make it natural.

    i think this brings up a good point though. where is the line of "natural" drawn? if you use a pre with a sh!t ton of stims, is that natural? i've got a friend that has some power lifting records (best in texas) and he literally consumes no supplements except protein. he is all about being natty. but i probably would too if i could bench 400 lbs.
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post

    i don't know too many people who would claim that RX drugs are natty. just because you won't get popped on a test doesn't make it natural.

    i think this brings up a good point though. where is the line of "natural" drawn? if you use a pre with a sh!t ton of stims, is that natural? i've got a friend that has some power lifting records (best in texas) and he literally consumes no supplements except protein. he is all about being natty. but i probably would too if i could bench 400 lbs.
    Exactly, there is no line. Except for a "social" line. What you do to excel at your sport unnaturally is limited by your training, diet, knowledge, talent, etc. Does anyone care what Lance Armstrong did to win? Especially after finding out they couldn't give his title to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th place winners? I don't. Think about how seldom he was even able to get away with aas, doping, epo, etc. 5-10% of the time at best? The other 90% he was busy training harder than everyone else.... naturally. Same goes here. 20-30% of the time "unnatural" typically. This is a sport nobody really cares about and suspects aas use anyways. Trust me, nobody cares. I doubt anyone will come to my NPC show outside of immediate family/gf. If you want "real" natty, anything other than food is not natural. So I'm natural right now. Now November-January is a different story.....

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Slappy244 View Post
    i don't know too many people who would claim that RX drugs are natty. just because you won't get popped on a test doesn't make it natural.

    i think this brings up a good point though. where is the line of "natural" drawn? if you use a pre with a sh!t ton of stims, is that natural? i've got a friend that has some power lifting records (best in texas) and he literally consumes no supplements except protein. he is all about being natty. but i probably would too if i could bench 400 lbs.
    Some people just are strong! There's a family of 3 brothers and a dad where I live. The dad whom hasn't lifted in about a year, comes in and does 315 x 10+ one day and just leaves for another 4 months... like dang.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions

  11. i have a really hard time remembering back to when i didn't want to used gear. i know there was a point when my opinion shifted from "opposed" to "in-favor", but i just can't remember when.

    i guess it was when i started learning about steroids, that i was able to see them for what they really are. to me, they are nothing more than a tool like pre-workout or protein.

    i can understand my friends stance on being natty, because he doesn't use any extra tools. but man, i know there will be a day that he will, and **** will get epic.

    can you imagine what would happen to someone who can bench 400 lbs natty if they hopped on the tren train?
    AM sucks ass. find me on ASF or IMF.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post

    I'm big, but Imma be swole... walk sideways through doors.... -Pain and Gain.
    I think you will enjoy your skinny wrists and ankles once you've got beefslabs for forearms and calves.
    Yeah I think small diameter bones nake you look bigger.. as long as you dont have narrow shoulders and a big waste small bones play to any bodybuilders advantage. Think jay cutler versus phil heath. Jay is just wide from top to bottom while phil has big muacle bellies and little bones.

  13. Juice or not, there is no substitute for good eating and hard training

  14. Quote Originally Posted by GeekPoop View Post
    Some people just are strong! There's a family of 3 brothers and a dad where I live. The dad whom hasn't lifted in about a year, comes in and does 315 x 10+ one day and just leaves for another 4 months... like dang.
    Blew my ****ing mind the other day. Dude was probably 15 years old really scrawny looked about 135 and he's repping out 8 reps on the incline bench with 225 no spot

  15. Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Blew my ****ing mind the other day. Dude was probably 15 years old really scrawny looked about 135 and he's repping out 8 reps on the incline bench with 225 no spot
    I know I got a buddy of mine who weighs 155 and he reps 235 on bench no problem... Now that's not a lot compared to my other buddy who's about my size (225-230) and easily reps 375 (dude is a MONSTER) but just from those two I agree genetics is a big part

  16. Height has a tremendous amount to do with how much people lift, also.

    I wish there was a mathematical formula to determine a height + weight comparison when performing a lift. I only bench 260 or so but if I were 6" shorter at the same weight I know I could put up 80+ more. Every inch makes a huge difference.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by pillsRgood View Post
    Playing college football... much funner when you are bigger faster stronger than most you play against...incidentally steroid use also led to a blown out knee, since my tendons couldn't keep up w the muscle growth, so that sucked

    ^^^ this. Put on a solid 15lbs of muscle summer of my senior year. Played at 225 and kept my speed and strength. Nothing like playing linebacker at 225 with increased testosterone and a screw loose upstairs.

    Sigh..... I miss those days

  18. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Height has a tremendous amount to do with how much people lift, also.

    I wish there was a mathematical formula to determine a height + weight comparison when performing a lift. I only bench 260 or so but if I were 6" shorter at the same weight I know I could put up 80+ more. Every inch makes a huge difference.
    Yeah but short guys do half the work because the stroke is only 8 inches long.. I know some guys who are short and a little xhunky and can benchpress 260 and they dont work out but they have short arms compared to a lot of us so there's no glory in it.. id rather push it and do 400 at 5'11"

  19. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Height has a tremendous amount to do with how much people lift, also.

    I wish there was a mathematical formula to determine a height + weight comparison when performing a lift. I only bench 260 or so but if I were 6" shorter at the same weight I know I could put up 80+ more. Every inch makes a huge difference.
    Yeah, but if you were six inches shorter AND the same weight you'd also be significantly more muscular.


    More muscle = more weight moved.


    So that doesn't really prove your point at all.

    With what you said it's possible you could move the extra weight by (gasp) putting on more muscle.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    Yeah, but if you were six inches shorter AND the same weight you'd also be significantly more muscular.

    More muscle = more weight moved.

    So that doesn't really prove your point at all.

    With what you said it's possible you could move the extra weight by (gasp) putting on more muscle.
    Yep

  21. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    Yeah, but if you were six inches shorter AND the same weight you'd also be significantly more muscular.

    More muscle = more weight moved.

    So that doesn't really prove your point at all.

    With what you said it's possible you could move the extra weight by (gasp) putting on more muscle.
    I understand your logic and yes, more power will get you there. But, if you think about the physics of a lever you can't argue that an identical amount of force (i.e. same size muscle) used to move and object will be more efficient at a shorter length of the lever arm.

    Hold a baseball bat at its base with a normal swinging grip. Then lift a tire up off the ground with it. Pretty hard to get leverage with a full length bat.

    Now cut the bat in half (i.e. shorter arm segments) and lift the same tire up.

    All I'm saying is that at the same exact muscular force, if you have shorter arms... you can lift more weight, period.

    And that doesn't even dip into the whole increased ROM discussion

  22. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    I understand your logic and yes, more power will get you there. But, if you think about the physics of a lever you can't argue that an identical amount of force (i.e. same size muscle) used to move and object will be more efficient at a shorter length of the lever arm.

    Hold a baseball bat at its base with a normal swinging grip. Then lift a tire up off the ground with it. Pretty hard to get leverage with a full length bat.

    Now cut the bat in half (i.e. shorter arm segments) and lift the same tire up.

    All I'm saying is that at the same exact muscular force, if you have shorter arms... you can lift more weight, period.
    I'm not even talking about whether it's easier to lift a weight when you're shorter or not.


    I'm talking specifically about your comment that if you were six inches shorter AND the same weight you'd lift more.

    Which is obvious because you would have more muscle of you were 6 inches shorter and weighed the same, which would allow you to apply MORE force to the bar due to the sstronger muscular contraction.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    I'm not even talking about whether it's easier to lift a weight when you're shorter or not.

    I'm talking specifically about your comment that if you were six inches shorter AND the same weight you'd lift more.

    Which is obvious because you would have more muscle of you were 6 inches shorter and weighed the same, which would allow you to apply MORE force to the bar due to the sstronger muscular contraction.
    Ok well then if I had the exact same amount of muscle then I'd still lift more weight. The decrease in ROM alone would accomplish that.

    Thanks for letting me know that if I have bigger muscles i can lift more. You changed my life, Jim!

    I'd technically have more muscle mass because of bone weight (I suppose) but seriously, dude... I meant if I had the same LBM as I do now, not weight. I figured it was inferred.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    Ok well then if I had the exact same amount of muscle then I'd STILL lift more weight. The decrease in ROM alone would accomplish that.

    Yes,
    My brother is 5'6" and 170-175 . He can bench press 300. Im 5" taller and hit 425 for 1RM. Im not bragging. Im making a point. Shourt guys may have less range of motion and a short untrained guy versus a tall untrained guy maybe the short guy wins. But maybe not. Its largely how you train and genetic advantage. Technically longer muscles have more room for contraction so if you train right you shoyld hit much bigger weights.. plus at 6'6" you shoulf be training as heavy as possible or you will miss all your potential.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    My brother is 5'6" and 170-175 . He can bench press 300. Im 5" taller and hit 425 for 1RM. Im not bragging. Im making a point. Shourt guys may have less range of motion and a short untrained guy versus a tall untrained guy maybe the short guy wins. But maybe not. Its largely how you train and genetic advantage. Technically longer muscles have more room for contraction so if you train right you shoyld hit much bigger weights.. plus at 6'6" you shoulf be training as heavy as possible or you will miss all your potential.
    Totally agree man. I'm really tall but honestly a realist in saying I don't have the genetics for big unless I make it my life goal with plenty of gear. I'm happy comparing myself to myself though. I have to be or I'd kill myself haha
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