Planning first cycle

[deadliftz]

Hi everyone,
I've been doing research and planning to start my first cycle towards the end of next month. Decided on using Epistane with AI Life Support, not quite certain about PCT yet. I'm thinking about using PES Erase or possibly ATD for PCT, thoughts? I'm also awaiting a delivery of DAA so I may keep that for PCT if it will help. Additionally, I will be taking glucosamine alongside flax seed and fish oils throughout.

So here's how I'm thinking about cycling:
Week 1: Life Support (won't be training this week)
Week 2: Epistane 20mg + Life Support
Week 3: Epistane 30mg + Life Support
Week 4: Epistane 40mg + Life Support
Week 5: Epistane 40mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 6: Erase 50mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 7: Erase 50mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 8: Erase 25mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 9: Erase 25mg + Life Support

I would be very grateful for any criticisms, suggestions or thoughts. I'm still apprehensive as to how I should handle the PCT.

 

[doggy_dog]

I'm no expert on the subject as I'm still planning my 1st cycle of Epi.
But the majority of people strongly suggest to use a SERM (like clomid or nolva) during PCT.
An over the counter AI and T-booster may not be enough.

 

[rphash49]

Hi everyone,
I've been doing research and planning to start my first cycle towards the end of next month. Decided on using Epistane with AI Life Support, not quite certain about PCT yet. I'm thinking about using PES Erase or possibly ATD for PCT, thoughts? I'm also awaiting a delivery of DAA so I may keep that for PCT if it will help. Additionally, I will be taking glucosamine alongside flax seed and fish oils throughout.

So here's how I'm thinking about cycling:
Week 1: Life Support (won't be training this week)
Week 2: Epistane 20mg + Life Support
Week 3: Epistane 30mg + Life Support
Week 4: Epistane 40mg + Life Support
Week 5: Epistane 40mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 6: Erase 50mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 7: Erase 50mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 8: Erase 25mg + Life Support + DAA 3g
Week 9: Erase 25mg + Life Support

I would be very grateful for any criticisms, suggestions or thoughts. I'm still apprehensive as to how I should handle the PCT.

Few things:
1. Why no training week one?
2. Start epi at a min 30mg(20mg is pointless)
3. Run epi 6 weeks. Most of the gains will come weeks 5 and 6
4. Yes use daa in pct but all 4 weeks.
5. Run erase 0/0/75/75/50/25
6. You need a serm for pct. A serm is the pct with erase, daa, life support being add on items. No serm no cycle.
7. For epi get Clomid or toremifene(Serm)
8. I'm not familiar with life support but make sure it has liver protection. Tudca is better than milk thistle IMO.

Before you ask where to find a serm please note the forum rules are that we can not source. Do a google search for research chemicals.

Tip: biggest first cycle mistakes are not having a proper on cycle diet and having a poor training regimen. Get these on point before even bothering with a cycle or the cycle will be ineffective.

 

[FranARG]

1) Up the Epi dose. Do not go below 30mg, IMHO. My spot is at 40mg.
2) GET A SERM. Seriously. Clomid, Nolva or Torem, you pick.

 

[deadliftz]

Few things:
1. Why no training week one?
2. Start epi at a min 30mg(20mg is pointless)
3. Run epi 6 weeks. Most of the gains will come weeks 5 and 6
4. Yes use daa in pct but all 4 weeks.
5. Run erase 0/0/75/75/50/25
6. You need a serm for pct. A serm is the pct with erase, daa, life support being add on items. No serm no cycle.
7. For epi get Clomid or toremifene(Serm)
8. I'm not familiar with life support but make sure it has liver protection. Tudca is better than milk thistle IMO.

Before you ask where to find a serm please note the forum rules are that we can not source. Do a google search for research chemicals.

Tip: biggest first cycle mistakes are not having a proper on cycle diet and having a poor training regimen. Get these on point before even bothering with a cycle or the cycle will be ineffective.

Not training that week as I promised the missus I'd take a break around our anniversary; when I resume training the following week seems like a good time to start the cycle. Yes, Life Support has liver protection as well as other supposed benefits, so it seemed like a good all-in-one. My training and diet are fine, infact my bench press and deadlift are up 10kg in three weeks since I started bulking again. In regards to training though I do a five-day split which works well for me, but during the cycle I think I'll try a higher-frequency programme.

Okay, if a SERM is really necessary I guess I'll look elsewhere for that. Think I'll side with Clomid. Using this, is there any need to purchase Erase, DAA or anything else also? I want safe but solid results, yet cost remains a factor here.

As for the dose I guess I'll try 10mg the first day to be safe, then maybe 30mg for weeks one and two then 40mg thereafter?

Thanks for the input, lads.

 

[rphash49]

Many pct with just Clomid and Nolva. Don't skimp on the pct. A poorly laid out/executed pct will cause you to lose everything you gained on cycle.

I would not do less than the following for pct:

Clomid 50/50/25/25 (torem is better but more expensive)
DAA 3g/3g/3g/3g
Erase 0/0/75/75/50/25

 

[deadliftz]

May have to delay the cycle a while then, as I really want to have all the necessary supplies. Will have to source and fund a SERM. You say torem is better than clomid, why is this so? Benefits/risks associated with each?

 

[rphash49]

Torem has less side effects and for me works quicker

 

[rkk808]

Torem worked great for me too, I recommend it

 

[Matthersby]

And a third for Torem.

 

[pyrobatt]

And a third for Torem.

Fourth for torem

 

[Matthersby]

Notice how we call it Torem? Maybe because when you Google the words research and torem, you will find sources. And then you should check reviews of these sources and choose the best one.

 

[pyrobatt]

May have to delay the cycle a while then, as I really want to have all the necessary supplies. Will have to source and fund a SERM. You say torem is better than clomid, why is this so? Benefits/risks associated with each?

Torem is the anti boobie and lh stimulating effects of both nolva and clomid combind. I like it because no lowering libido and less lowering igf1 than nolva. I like it over clomid due to no vision sides and better looking lipids than clomid.

 

[deadliftz]

Hey guys, looks like it'll be after the new year i'll have my stack complete, as I want to have everything ready. Today, I'll start by ordering the Epistane. Can I ask here whether the site I'm looking at is reputable? If not, could anyone help me via PM perhaps?

 

[deadliftz]

Hey, couple more questions as I've now got the epistane, cycle support and erase ready, and am about to order toremifene.

How would you recommend dosing torem? Or to put it simply, I'm looking at a bottle which is 30ml, 60mg/ml. Will this be enough or should I order two?

Also, I received AI Sports Cycle Support today. The shop I ordered from has a somewhat misleading description of it; the recommended dosage is 2 scoops daily, which would mean it will only last 30 days. Do you think I should get another bottle, or will one scoop daily suffice? I'm still undecided on whether I'll be running the Epi for 45 days at 36mg or 30 days at 54mg (90*18mg capsules), so I guess that'll be a factor here.

 

[rphash49]

Hey, couple more questions as I've now got the epistane, cycle support and erase ready, and am about to order toremifene.

How would you recommend dosing torem? Or to put it simply, I'm looking at a bottle which is 30ml, 60mg/ml. Will this be enough or should I order two?

Also, I received AI Sports Cycle Support today. The shop I ordered from has a somewhat misleading description of it; the recommended dosage is 2 scoops daily, which would mean it will only last 30 days. Do you think I should get another bottle, or will one scoop daily suffice? I'm still undecided on whether I'll be running the Epi for 45 days at 36mg or 30 days at 54mg (90*18mg capsules), so I guess that'll be a factor here.

For epi dose torem 90/60/60/30

I'm in a small group but I like longer pct and dose torem 120/90/90/60/60/30

The bottle of torem you are looking at will work for the 4 wk pct

 

[rphash49]

Also epi results for me are most evident weeks 4,5 and 6 so plan accordingly.

Also it looks like you will need another bucket of your cycle support. You dose it one scoop in the morning and one in the evening and will only last you 30 days

 

[deadliftz]

For epi dose torem 90/60/60/30

I'm in a small group but I like longer pct and dose torem 120/90/90/60/60/30

The bottle of torem you are looking at will work for the 4 wk pct

I think then I'll get one bottle for now, and possibly order another half way through the PCT if I feel like it's needed.

Guess I'll have to find the funds for more cycle support then, I don't want to take any unnecessary risks. Do I need to run it during my PCT, or just before and during the cycle?

 

[rphash49]

Start the cycle support day one of cycle. No need to preload with epi IMO. It's a good idea to use during pct also but at a min use through out cycle

 

[deadliftz]

I'm not so enthusiastic about using DAA during PCT as it gave me frequent diarrhea in the past. Should Toremifene and Erase be enough?

Otherwise stack is more or less ready; still need to pick up another cycle support and hopefully joint support and taurine. The waiting is killing me!

 

[Gerbil]

Clomid all the way, throw in an AI and you are golden. Also using DAA on the last week of epi is a bit silly.

Up the epi dosage and throw in some stano or a transdermal.

 

[deadliftz]

Clomid all the way, throw in an AI and you are golden. Also using DAA on the last week of epi is a bit silly. Up the epi dosage and throw in some stano or a transdermal.

Do you think stacking two compounds is a good idea for a first cycle? I could probably fit stano into my budget and run the two for six weeks at 36mg/400mg daily, but I'm undecided.

 

[bel1]

Do you think stacking two compounds is a good idea for a first cycle? I could probably fit stano into my budget and run the two for six weeks at 36mg/400mg daily, but I'm undecided.

stano is very mild so stacking should be fine but being ur first cycle, you should experience the compound by itself so that u could use that reference for future cycles..

u could grab both and run the stano when lethargy kicks in, who knows u probably could save it for another cycle

 

[Gerbil]

Do you think stacking two compounds is a good idea for a first cycle? I could probably fit stano into my budget and run the two for six weeks at 36mg/400mg daily, but I'm undecided.

Stano is mostly just there for a test base, it will keep your libido up and make you less crotchety. Those doses should work, you might want to save up for another bottle of epi incase you want to increase your dosage as the cycle progresses.

 

[pyrobatt]

Stano is mostly just there for a test base, it will keep your libido up and make you less crotchety. Those doses should work, you might want to save up for another bottle of epi incase you want to increase your dosage as the cycle progresses.

Stano is NOT a test base. It converts to DHT. 4-dhea,1-dhea or 1-andro converts to test. These are good test bases.
I would look into the androfactory line for a good oral test base.

 

[Gerbil]

Stano is NOT a test base. It converts to DHT. 4-dhea or 1-andro converts to test. These are good test bases.

Wow my bad, completely forgot why it was called stanodrol. Its been a while. Transdermal dhea or a subset of it is a good starting point.

 

[deadliftz]

Is six weeks of 36mg daily likely to be enough to give me a decent increase in strength/mass gains? I could pick up another bottle but I'm hesitant as I don't think I'd go above about 45mg anyway, so I'm not sure if it's worth it. Still considering the stanodrol also.

 

[Pypp]

Stack with priviron if your under 10% bf, you won't regret it.

 

[laneanders]

I'm not so enthusiastic about using DAA during PCT as it gave me frequent diarrhea in the past. Should Toremifene and Erase be enough?

Otherwise stack is more or less ready; still need to pick up another cycle support and hopefully joint support and taurine. The waiting is killing me!

You could try out Intimidate SRT if DAA upsets you.

 

[deadliftz]

Stack with priviron if your under 10% bf, you won't regret it.

More like 14% right now. Will probably cut a while after the cycle.

You could try out Intimidate SRT if DAA upsets you.

I'll see if any of my usual shops stock it.

 

[deadliftz]

Getting close now - taking next week off then starting the following week. Decided on 45 days of 36mg epistane and 400mg stanodrol - maybe slightly higher for the last few days to empty the bottles. Can't wait to begin!

Still looking for advice on some small considerations if anyone would like to help:
- Is it worth it to ease into the cycle with AI Cycle Support, or just start everything together?
- PCT will be toremifene and Erase. I see a lot of different suggestions on how/when to use Erase, what would be best for this cycle?
- My bulking diet is pretty good at the moment, but I figure I will increase my surplus (protein) on cycle. What's a good increase to aim for?

 

[Matthersby]

Personally, protein stays the same year round except to adjust for weight gain/loss. Carbs/fats are a different story.

 

[deadliftz]

Personally, protein stays the same year round except to adjust for weight gain/loss. Carbs/fats are a different story.

Same here, but being that the steroids should increase protein synthesis, would it not be beneficial to increase protein intake?

 

[Matthersby]

If you really think about it, I feel it should be the other way around. More protein when you're not on cycle. But I get what you're saying. If its easy to get your calories already, then go for it. Definitely increase carbs though.

 

[deadliftz]

If you really think about it, I feel it should be the other way around. More protein when you're not on cycle. But I get what you're saying. If its easy to get your calories already, then go for it. Definitely increase carbs though.

I suppose you have a point there. If protein can be used more efficiently, and I can gain naturally, it should be enough. Carbs it is.

 

[johnnybeegood]

1-ad, 1-andro convert to 1-test, i believe and are known for lethargy in some users. would not use as test base.

 

[deadliftz]

Had a scoop of cycle support with breakfast about three hours ago. Initially I felt pretty dizzy, now I'm still suffering with palpitations, insomnia and pretty bad nausea. No way I could go through 60 days of this - anyone had any similar problems?

 

[Matthersby]

If cycle support gives you unbearable sides, you may not enjoy steroids....

 

[deadliftz]

If cycle support gives you unbearable sides, you may not enjoy steroids....

Yeah, that's a slight concern at the moment.

Not so bad today. A full scoop on an empty stomach may just have been a bad way to start.

 

[deadliftz]

Time for an update. Ran epistane for 30 days at 36mg. Stopped yesterday since I can't seem to get my blood pressure under control and it really doesn't seem worth it. Starting PCT before bed tonight.

What I'm wondering is, what the ****? My diet and training was fine for slow but consistent bulking without steroids. On cycle, I gained NO mass - may have even lost a small amount of weight. I did have some strength gains, but nothing major. Added about 10kg to bench press sets, for example. I did however have plenty of hormonal side effects, including testicular pain, hypertension and acne. The second week felt like things were starting to pick up, and then...nothing.

Very disappointed in this cycle, particularly considering how unpleasant it was. If I do decide to try steroids again, I think I'll be going straight for testosterone.

 

[chris223]

I read your last post first and my immediate question was what brand of Epi you bought and from where, but then I went through the thread and now I think you're one of these guys whose paranoia is so strong that you give yourself symptoms. I mean, the Cycle Assist tore you up? Really? High blood pressure is measurable and thus I can't suggest that you didn't really have it (assuming you actually took your BP somewhere and weren't just "feeling" high blood pressure, which people claim all the time), but these other symptoms - testicular pain, insomnia, etc - are subjective and may not have come from the steroid but from your own head. How high was your BP, anyway? That's one of those sides that IS going to be present and you just have to manage it. And you say the first dose of CA gave you insomnia, three hours after taking it with breakfast? The hell?

 

[deadliftz]

I read your last post first and my immediate question was what brand of Epi you bought and from where, but then I went through the thread and now I think you're one of these guys whose paranoia is so strong that you give yourself symptoms. I mean, the Cycle Assist tore you up? Really? High blood pressure is measurable and thus I can't suggest that you didn't really have it (assuming you actually took your BP somewhere and weren't just "feeling" high blood pressure, which people claim all the time), but these other symptoms - testicular pain, insomnia, etc - are subjective and may not have come from the steroid but from your own head. How high was your BP, anyway? That's one of those sides that IS going to be present and you just have to manage it. And you say the first dose of CA gave you insomnia, three hours after taking it with breakfast? The hell?

Sure, I tend to react to things oddly and some of it may be down to anxiety, but the sides I specifically mentioned above were very real, and this doesn't explain the ****ty results. BP got up to about 180/85 and yes it was measured multiple times.
As far as the brand, the place I purchased from does seem pretty reliable and the pills do have that sulfur smell I've read about, but who knows.

 

[Matthersby]

Sure, I tend to react to things oddly and some of it may be down to anxiety, but the sides I specifically mentioned above were very real, and this doesn't explain the ****ty results. BP got up to about 180/85 and yes it was measured multiple times.
As far as the brand, the place I purchased from does seem pretty reliable and the pills do have that sulfur smell I've read about, but who knows.

Some guys don't respond to Epi?
Regardless, next cycle, up those calories if your not making gains. Maybe this is a problem already?

 

[Sonofzues1017]

Sure, I tend to react to things oddly and some of it may be down to anxiety, but the sides I specifically mentioned above were very real, and this doesn't explain the ****ty results. BP got up to about 180/85 and yes it was measured multiple times. As far as the brand, the place I purchased from does seem pretty reliable and the pills do have that sulfur smell I've read about, but who knows.

look man if your gonna cycle you might as we'll let your self enjoy it and to tell you the truth your paranoia is getting in the way all the side affects you listed besides Bp and ball tightness is probably a figment of your imagination I've ran epi numerous times always at 100mg and sometimes even stacked with other things granted I'm not the most responsible but I'm fine and so are my balls

 

[deadliftz]

Some guys don't respond to Epi? Regardless, next cycle, up those calories if your not making gains. Maybe this is a problem already?

That's the part I don't understand. I am gaining; it's slow, but it's there. The epi just didn't contribute. Anyway, if calories were the problem surely I would have gained something still?

 

[Sonofzues1017]

That's the part I don't understand. I am gaining; it's slow, but it's there. The epi just didn't contribute. Anyway, if calories were the problem surely I would have gained something still?

to me it seems you may have ordered some bunk epi

 

[deadliftz]

to me it seems you may have ordered some bunk epi

Perhaps it was even underdosed, but that doesn't explain things like why I had an increase of about 50 mmHg systolic blood pressure. :\

 

[EatMoar]

Perhaps it was even underdosed, but that doesn't explain things like why I had an increase of about 50 mmHg systolic blood pressure. :\

Because you were nervous and that made it worse.

 

[ion26]

As far as the brand, the place I purchased from does seem pretty reliable and the pills do have that sulfur smell I've read about, but who knows.

What's the brand name?