Yet another first time Epistane user

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    Yet another first time Epistane user


    Hey memebers on AnabolicMinds. I could use some wisdom in the ways of my very first cycle. This will be the first time using any anabolic substance. I've done a fair bit of research but i could use some advice on the reliability of venders/brands. Also criticism on my cycle is appreciated.

    Preload liver support for one week

    ep-stane by dynamic formulas. (i like the price, is it the same as other epistane products?

    15/15/15/15/30/30/30

    45/45/45/45/45/45/45

    45/45/45/45/45/45/45

    60/60/60/60/60/60/60

    Does anbody think 60mg each day is too much for a beginner?

    PCT

    Tamoxifen (true twenty) from iron-dragon.com. It is a research chem site. This site seems to be legit, What do you guys think?
    20/20/10/10

    along with DAA.

    Is it important to run erase with my PCT? From what i've seen tamoxifen is enough for most people.

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    I'm a beginner also bro, so I can't give you any expert advice yet, but I've been getting alot of advice from guys on here about my own first epi cycle, and from what I've been told I will tell you this: 60 will be too much for you, you could get some pretty bad sides on that. Plus as a beginner you won't need that much to see great results from Epi. Also, starting at 15 will be a waste, as anything below 25 your body won't respond much too. Secondly, I would definitely run an AI like Erase in your PCT, because some people get rebound gyno from not running one. Tamo is great but Erase is cheap and will help guarantee you come off safely. I was also told to run DAA throughout the cycle (sort of like a test base on a true gear cycle) to keep your test levels up a little more during cycle.

    If I were you I would do something like:

    Week 1: Preload week. Load your liver care and cycle assist
    Week 2-3: livercare and cycle assist, Epi 30/30/30/30/30/30/30
    Week 4-6: livercare and cycleassist Epi 45/45/45/45/45/45/45
    Week 7-8: Run your Tamo, Livercare and cycleassist
    Week 9-10: Start your Erase, Tamo, Livercare and cycle assist
    Week 11-12: Erase, Livercare and Cycleassist (You'll be done with Tamo now)

    And of course use DAA throughout as well.

    That will be a 5 week cycle of Epi, but at a lower dosage. You'll get way better results and less sides by drawing back the dosage and adding a week.
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    Reps to you bro thanks! What dose of erase and DAA are you running pct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshR View Post
    Reps to you bro thanks! What dose of erase and DAA are you running pct?
    I will PM you with the links.
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    DAA will not be effective if ran during cycle. But i Highly recommend DAA throughout pct. 3.12g a day.

    For a first cycle I wouldn't go over 40 or 45 but you can always drop it back down if the lethargy hits you too hard. 40 is the sweet spot for me and I stack it with stano 800-1000mg
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    DAA will not be effective if ran during cycle. But i Highly recommend DAA throughout pct. 3.12g a day.

    For a first cycle I wouldn't go over 40 or 45 but you can always drop it back down if the lethargy hits you too hard. 40 is the sweet spot for me and I stack it with stano 800-1000mg
    Well I'm not necessarily looking for it to be effective for helping additional mass gain or anything. Just to avoid super low test levels. In your experience, has that proven not to be the case?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post

    Well I'm not necessarily looking for it to be effective for helping additional mass gain or anything. Just to avoid super low test levels. In your experience, has that proven not to be the case?
    DAA will not keep your natural test production from being shut down while on cycle. Sorry

    It does a great job of being a natural test booster but not while running a designer steroid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    DAA will not keep your natural test production from being shut down while on cycle. Sorry

    It does a great job of being a natural test booster but not while running a designer steroid.
    It will stimulate luteinizing hormone production though. Not at a similar level but in similar fashion as hcg. So it does have benefit to quicker recovery when run during a cycle along with post cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermanjow View Post

    It will stimulate luteinizing hormone production though. Not at a similar level but in similar fashion as hcg. So it does have benefit to quicker recovery when run during a cycle along with post cycle.
    When introducing exogenous testosterone your natural test will be suppressed to a point a natty test booster will be all but ineffective. HCG doesn't stimulate LH, it acts like it. You can still be shut down using HCG but you avoid testicle shrinkage on harsher cycles. But hey I've never tried DAA on cycle maybe it would help but I highly doubt it.
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    Would you recommend running an HCG on an epi cycle like this then instead, and then run DAA during PCT?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post
    Would you recommend running an HCG on an epi cycle like this then instead, and then run DAA during PCT?
    IMO no need. Most people I know personally along with myself don't get testicular shrinkage on epi. M-sten, dmz, lmg turn my balls into raisins but I've always been able to get my boys back to full size within a few weeks of pct. Getting shut down is something you need to come to grip with when running PH/DS. Execute a properly laid out pct and you should be back to normal within 10-14 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    IMO no need. Most people I know personally along with myself don't get testicular shrinkage on epi. M-sten, dmz, lmg turn my balls into raisins but I've always been able to get my boys back to full size within a few weeks of pct. Getting shut down is something you need to come to grip with when running PH/DS. Execute a properly laid out pct and you should be back to normal within 10-14 days.
    Sounds good!
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    One thing you might want to think about with DAA is that it has to build up in your system. In the studies, they tested after 6 and 12 consecutive days of use and then again 3 days after stopping. After 6 days there was no significant change in LH or test levels. It wasnt until they tested again at 12 days of consecutive use where they measured the 33.3% increase in LH and 42% in test levels. I was just thinking you have to prep your body in advance for when you want the effect. Any other thoughts on timing of the natty booster?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimZeTerrible View Post
    One thing you might want to think about with DAA is that it has to build up in your system. In the studies, they tested after 6 and 12 consecutive days of use and then again 3 days after stopping. After 6 days there was no significant change in LH or test levels. It wasnt until they tested again at 12 days of consecutive use where they measured the 33.3% increase in LH and 42% in test levels. I was just thinking you have to prep your body in advance for when you want the effect. Any other thoughts on timing of the natty booster?
    I have seen a few logs of people starting daa a week before cycle ends but I'm still not convinced it is effective. I doubt the study included people in the last week of a cycle. But hey I'd love to see some bloodwork that proves me wrong and I'll make a change to how I pct after a cycle.
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    No need to increase the dosage on the cycle, pick a dosage and stick to it for 5-6 weeks. I recommend 40 mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimZeTerrible View Post
    One thing you might want to think about with DAA is that it has to build up in your system. In the studies, they tested after 6 and 12 consecutive days of use and then again 3 days after stopping. After 6 days there was no significant change in LH or test levels. It wasnt until they tested again at 12 days of consecutive use where they measured the 33.3% increase in LH and 42% in test levels. I was just thinking you have to prep your body in advance for when you want the effect. Any other thoughts on timing of the natty booster?
    Do you think that would be reason to pre-load with DAA as well and run it throughout the cycle, to help keep test levels a bit higher while on Epi? Or do you think the Epi would completely negate any and all effect of the DAA so it would be pointless?
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    I do get mini balls while on Epi, but I dont think it is worth it to run hcg on an epi solo cycle, last time I jumped back in no time using Clomid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranARG View Post
    I do get mini balls while on Epi, but I dont think it is worth it to run hcg on an epi solo cycle, last time I jumped back in no time using Clomid.
    Sounds good to me. I can deal with some temporary ball Shrinkage in exchange for 5-10 lbs of lean mass gain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    When introducing exogenous testosterone your natural test will be suppressed to a point a natty test booster will be all but ineffective. HCG doesn't stimulate LH, it acts like it. You can still be shut down using HCG but you avoid testicle shrinkage on harsher cycles. But hey I've never tried DAA on cycle maybe it would help but I highly doubt it.
    All I know is that PA thought it may be plausible/beneficial in a similar manner. And remember, it's not your typical natty booster. It's regular amino acid your body produces/utilizes in your normal HPTA cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supermanjow View Post

    All I know is that PA thought it may be plausible/beneficial in a similar manner. And remember, it's not your typical natty booster. It's regular amino acid your body produces/utilizes in your normal HPTA cycle.
    Wish you could find studies, medical or otherwise that would shed some light on that. But if PA said it then it might be worth a try. I've never seen a log of someone trying it nor can I find one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    Wish you could find studies, medical or otherwise that would shed some light on that. But if PA said it then it might be worth a try. I've never seen a log of someone trying it nor can I find one.
    What is PA?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post

    What is PA?
    Patrick Arnold.

    If we could confirm he did say this, I would try it during my current cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhornsp View Post

    Patrick Arnold.

    If we could confirm he did say this, I would try it during my current cycle.
    I still find it hard to believe. Here is some info on DAA:
    http://examine.com/supplements/D-Aspartic+Acid/
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhornsp View Post
    Patrick Arnold.

    If we could confirm he did say this, I would try it during my current cycle.
    Got it. LOL ppl abbreviate everything on this site, I don't know how I'm supposed to figure out what all these acronyms mean sometimes
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    I'll do some digging again to get his exact words.
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    Daa doesn't have any "benificial" effect on hpta function "during a cycle of steroids"
    I'm sure pa didn't say it did.

    "D-Aspartate is essentially a neurotransmitter and a stimulant, as well as a precursor to another neurotransmitter and stimulant (NDMA). It works in a central brain region to cause a release of hormones such as Luteinizing Hormone, Follicle-Stimulating Hormone, and Growth Hormone secondary to acting on receptors directly. D-Asparate may also build up in the testicles, where it alleviates a rate-limiting step of Testosterone synthesis and thereby increases testosterone levels minorly."

    I doubt It is going to up cause enough lh to prevent testicle desensitization of the testes.
    But def is benificial in pct to get thing going.
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    Here is what he said when asked this.

    Quote Originally Posted by thundaclap View Post
    I know there aren't any studies on this, but it sounds like it might work similarly to HCG thru LH production. What do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    hcg does not work through LH production. hcg is a LH mimick


    what do i think? i think there are no studies like you say, so i dont really know what the effect of DAA during a cycle would be. maybe it helps maintain levels, maybe not
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    Your hpta is going to correct the imbalance in androgens. Add das, it will just try harder.

    It might help. Significantly? Who knows.
    Prob vary person to person.

    I see no need for it until pct. Maybe a week before pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Your hpta is going to correct the imbalance in androgens. Add das, it will just try harder.

    It might help. Significantly? Who knows.
    Prob vary person to person.

    I see no need for it until pct. Maybe a week before pct.
    That seems to make sense. I think I'll start it up a week before PCT like you've said. Or...since I'm running a log of this cycle, I could experiment with trying daa throughout the cycle and see if it yields any noticeable benefits? If you guys want me to experiment with that, I'm more than willing. It's not going to hurt either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron330 View Post

    That seems to make sense. I think I'll start it up a week before PCT like you've said. Or...since I'm running a log of this cycle, I could experiment with trying daa throughout the cycle and see if it yields any noticeable benefits? If you guys want me to experiment with that, I'm more than willing. It's not going to hurt either way.
    Do w/e, prob won't change how I do things who know for the next guy though.
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    From examine.com:

    "D-Asparate may also build up in the testicles, where it alleviates a rate-limiting step of Testosterone synthesis and thereby increases testosterone levels minorly.

    There are minimal human studies on the subject matter, and minimal interventions at all. The majority of information is assessing the roles D-Aspartate has in the body under normal conditions, and does not consider supplementation." Supplementation aka on cycle.

    From reading the studies it appears that DAA was helpful in those with low testosterone lvls while only temporarily but did very little for those with normal to high testosterone lvls. While on cycle your test lvls are/should be very high so that also leads me to believe daa would be completely ineffective on cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    From examine.com:

    "D-Asparate may also build up in the testicles, where it alleviates a rate-limiting step of Testosterone synthesis and thereby increases testosterone levels minorly.

    There are minimal human studies on the subject matter, and minimal interventions at all. The majority of information is assessing the roles D-Aspartate has in the body under normal conditions, and does not consider supplementation." Supplementation aka on cycle.

    From reading the studies it appears that DAA was helpful in those with low testosterone lvls while only temporarily but did very little for those with normal to high testosterone lvls. While on cycle your test lvls are/should be very high so that also leads me to believe daa would be completely ineffective on cycle.
    Depends upon what you are cycling. However, it probably still may not do anything.
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    Epi is some good stuff. Its a good ano for your first cycle. and it barely has sides. infact it can help reduce some sides from pervious PHs like Mdrol. SD is bad ass but i wouldnt do it for the first cycle
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    60mg is a high dose imo. I did 20mg for 3 days then 30mg for 3 weeks now on 4th week and I'm @ 40mg. I think I'll only run 5 weeks instead of planned 6 because my joints and tendons hurt so much even with fish oil/joint support supps. Back pumps were an issue too even @ 30mg but only when I worked out back specifically lower back.
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    Get taurine for back pumps. Problem solved. Run epi 6 weeks
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    Taurine didn't work for me.


    Pom extract helps. 40 mg for 5-6 weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    Get taurine for back pumps. Problem solved. Run epi 6 weeks
    How much should you take? And I'm assuming an hour before workout? Does Walmart brand work fine?
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    Different for everyone but I use 1g 3 times a day on epi. For dmz and m-sten I use 2g every 4 hrs. You will know if you need to increase the dose. Lower back cramps are a biotch but taurine does the trick for most
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    Quote Originally Posted by rphash49 View Post
    Different for everyone but I use 1g 3 times a day on epi. For dmz and m-sten I use 2g every 4 hrs. You will know if you need to increase the dose. Lower back cramps are a biotch but taurine does the trick for most
    Yikes. I'm not looking forward to that lol. Any specific brand you take, or does it matter? I'll probably just get some from walmart
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    I'm a big fan of Rn havoc kick of week one at 30 then do the rest at 40. Depending in how long your wanting to go. 40 for me seems to be the sweet spot.
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