Smash is back: Osta and S4 in pct - log and bloodwork

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    Smash is back: Osta and S4 in pct - log and bloodwork


    Hey everyone,

    Sort of fell off a little bit when my life got super crazy, but things are getting easier and I wanted to start logging again. I sort of noticed my training and progress stalls when I'm not logging and Im not too happy with the last couple of months. My job has caused my training to suffer and I haven't been eating enough, so will be focusing more on frequency and increasing my calories.

    So my last cycle started in October and I started pct on Sunday 8/11 which puts me at about 9-10 months. I had introduced myself to blast and cruise so a lot of that time was just trt, and the last 8 weeks were 250mg test e/week 80mg var/day 50mg proviron/day and 40mg dbol/day. I wanted to see how type 1 and 2 synergy worked with a trt dose. I ran 50mg clomid the whole time. I wasn't actually planning on coming off(I've been looking into trt) but out of respect for my wife Ive agreed to pct and get my blood drawn to see how my hpta is functioning.

    I decided to run a small experiment to see how sarms work in pct(in terms of recovery) and am still using the blast and cruise concept.

    Clomid-100/75/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50
    Nolva----50/50/25/25/--0/-0/--0/-0/--0/-0
    Osta-----15/15/25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25
    S4---------0/-0/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50
    Exem------0/-0/-0/-0/25/25/25/25/25/25

    I am unsure about adding DAA but if I do itll be around week 5. Im undecided on adding the exem sooner to deal with the supposed increase in aromatise activity from the osta and if I get vision sides from the S4 I will do 6 on 1 off - I'm already airing on the side of caution with it looking for the most results with the least sides/suppression. Im also starting the osta at a lower dose and starting S4 week 3 to better chances of recovery and to fit into the 2 weeks cruise 8 weeks blast. I will cease everything and get a blood draw week 11.

    My goals are recomp/bulk, recover and see how the osta/S4 stack compares to aas. If my blood comes back looking good, I feel good and I make decent gains from this I may consider ceasing aas(at least for now).

    Enjoy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    Hey everyone,

    Sort of fell off a little bit when my life got super crazy, but things are getting easier and I wanted to start logging again. I sort of noticed my training and progress stalls when I'm not logging and Im not too happy with the last couple of months. My job has caused my training to suffer and I haven't been eating enough, so will be focusing more on frequency and increasing my calories.

    So my last cycle started in October and I started pct on Sunday 8/11 which puts me at about 9-10 months. I had introduced myself to blast and cruise so a lot of that time was just trt, and the last 8 weeks were 250mg test e/week 80mg var/day 50mg proviron/day and 40mg dbol/day. I wanted to see how type 1 and 2 synergy worked with a trt dose. I ran 50mg clomid the whole time. I wasn't actually planning on coming off(I've been looking into trt) but out of respect for my wife Ive agreed to pct and get my blood drawn to see how my hpta is functioning.

    I decided to run a small experiment to see how sarms work in pct(in terms of recovery) and am still using the blast and cruise concept.

    Clomid-100/75/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50
    Nolva----50/50/25/25/--0/-0/--0/-0/--0/-0
    Osta-----15/15/25/25/25/25/25/25/25/25
    S4---------0/-0/50/50/50/50/50/50/50/50
    Exem------0/-0/-0/-0/25/25/25/25/25/25

    I am unsure about adding DAA but if I do itll be around week 5. Im undecided on adding the exem sooner to deal with the supposed increase in aromatise activity from the osta and if I get vision sides from the S4 I will do 6 on 1 off - I'm already airing on the side of caution with it looking for the most results with the least sides/suppression. Im also starting the osta at a lower dose and starting S4 week 3 to better chances of recovery and to fit into the 2 weeks cruise 8 weeks blast. I will cease everything and get a blood draw week 11.

    My goals are recomp/bulk, recover and see how the osta/S4 stack compares to aas. If my blood comes back looking good, I feel good and I make decent gains from this I may consider ceasing aas(at least for now).

    Enjoy.
    Sounds interesting man ill follow along for the ride.
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    I am in for this one and not to sound too much like a Dexter rip off but I love to see bloods!
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    Sounds fun
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    Educate me, but I didn't think Osta or S4 were good in PCT because they are suppressive? What advantage would be adding these to PCT be?

    Is running Osta and S4 or either or in PCT worth it, if so I will run them?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    Educate me, but I didn't think Osta or S4 were good in PCT because they are suppressive? What advantage would be adding these to PCT be?

    Is running Osta and S4 or either or in PCT worth it, if so I will run them?!
    I know osta in particular is only suppressive at higher dosages. Not sure about s4 tho...
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    Osta at 10 mg is good but no S4. S4 is suppressive
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    Quote Originally Posted by chainsaw View Post
    Educate me, but I didn't think Osta or S4 were good in PCT because they are suppressive? What advantage would be adding these to PCT be?

    Is running Osta and S4 or either or in PCT worth it, if so I will run them?!
    From what I understand osta is suppressive at 32.5mg per day, but only slightly raises aromatise activity at 25mg - so not particularly suppressive but I'd imagine elevated estrogen might cause negative feedback, hence running an ai. I usually run exem from day one of pct but my friend said squashing estrogen so early is actually counter productive because you need some estrogen for recovery - so I'm starting it week 5.

    Im also under the impression that S4 is suppressive at greater than 50mg, which is also where it becomes effective, so I'm hoping its a dose where the pro outweighs the con. Ive heard good things about stacking both and Im hoping the proposed dosage protocol allows for proper recovery while still giving great results - the question Im trying to answer is whether two potentially slightly suppressive compounds causes full suppression.

    Im not the best test subject for this because my precycle bloods showed low average T and my likely hood of recovery is already getting iffy. So basically if I see any degree of recovery we will know that(at least for me) sarms can be run in pct, and not recovering might not necessarily be attributed to either of these compounds.

    The clomid is ran all 10 weeks so this is technically a 10 week pct, and after week 11, depending on blood work I will restart pct to see if I can recover without sarms.
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    I actually had very good results using formestane and ostarine. Was a pretty sweet combo
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I actually had very good results using formestane and ostarine. Was a pretty sweet combo
    Ya I'd been thinking about using formestane instead of exemestane as I've has good results from it in the past and I've always been curious as to how running a high dose would be with its anabolic metabolite. I just worry about it becoming suppressive at that point.
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    Day: 26(first log)

    Weight: 172

    So this is my first day of logging, about 4 weeks into pct, and my strength, energy and mood are pretty good, but libido is spotty. I have not lost any strength or weight during this time, but have had a pretty serious recomp effect - I'm not even cutting and have a six pack coming in. I am by far the most vascular, dry and hard I've ever been. Veins showing on abs, delts and calves/shins.
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    Day: 27

    Weight: 172.5

    Sides: my skin is still broken out but I hear its clearing up - don't really see it but maybe a little. Im overly critical about it. Not sure if its related but bowl movements have been painful, but it might just be because of the calorie increase. Vision sides are apparent from the s4 - yellow tint like all white is yellow, yellow is orange the world looks like I'm looking through sunglasses. I can handle it so far but my night vision sucks now, like my headlights are dim when I drive.

    Had another awesome workout today, felt strong - there's definitely an on feeling. I lowered the volume to match my work and can tell you I feel like I could lift a lot more on every lift. By the time I got to the end of the workout I had an almost painful pump and my biceps/shoulders looked crazy vascular as I did curls - I see new veins every day.

    So I'd like to mention I have my wife on 25mg of s4 everyday and she thinks its crazy too - shes hungry, vascular, energized and we are pretty sure she feels hot and sweaty because of her bf disappearing. She loves squats now too, and is already able to go harder on the kettlebells than me. She says she feels great, but her sex drive is diminished(she just started citalopram and that is a common side) - kinda works cause I don't feel recovered in that aspect yet.
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    Day: 29

    Weight: 172.5

    Had a real good shoulder workout yesterday, pumps seem more noticeable everyday as the muscles I work swell instantly. Veins are all over the front delt moving into the side and I'm getting them in my triceps now too. I have added carnitine-l-tartate and will be adding sodium bicarbonate to my creatine to buffer the acid and increase absorbtion. I also take sodium bicarbonate in the morning before and during work to buffer lactic acid build up, that way I have a better workout after work. Its not truly bicarbonate loading but I am taking a couple grams a day.

    I would like to add some peptides, a boom dosing protocol would be sick right now, but for the purposes of this "experiment" I will hold off until week 12. I want to see how good the soft tissue repair of these sarms actually is - I will add msm, glucosamine and chondroitin to assist in this effect. My wife says she doesnt believe I'm in pct she thinks I'm still on cycle, and I've already said this has a very "on" feeling - I feel and look awesome. Libido isnt 100%, maybe 60 or 70%.

    Today is an off day, I caught up on some much needed sleep - slept like 12 hours.
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    Day: 52

    Weight: 175

    Haven't had much time to log, barely even had time to work out - short intense sessions, usually less than 1 hour. My wife broke her hand and had to go into surgery, found out we're having a baby, and moved all at the same time. Needless to say I'm exhausted, but the sarms definitely help me push through everything. I've been recovering really well, getting leaner and still gaining weight(slowly). This stuff makes you super vascular, like more so than anything I've ever tried, and it happens real fast too. Like new ones everyday, I think this stuff targets the receptors for that hormone that induces vein growth(androgenic properties of s4?)

    I added CLA with gaurana to see how much leaner I can get(Im not cutting). Im recomping pretty well so far and an additional 50% fat loss would be awesome.
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    Busy man alright, I know what that feels like I've had similar issues going in recently. Glad to hear the sarms are going well, I've got some ostarine on its way, looking forward to it.
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    Remember these compounds don't typically produce an "on" feeling with aggression, etc. If anything I would expect a drop in libido especially since you're using S4. Ostarine alone at 20
    Mg cured my ulnar tunnel syndrome BTW. Something that had been bugging me for months. Goes to show how good it is at repair. What brand are you using? Oh and 45 minutes to finish a workout is perfect in my opinion. Expect greater recovery
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Busy man alright, I know what that feels like I've had similar issues going in recently. Glad to hear the sarms are going well, I've got some ostarine on its way, looking forward to it.
    Ya they're pretty legit, I mean if I were never going to run aas again theyd be where its at. Just not enough to them, I maintain well but bulking? Naw not really super slow like I'd imagine bulking on winni. Im strong vascular and look good but can't gain weight worth sh*t. Like 5 lbs in 8 weeks... They're are fun though.

    And ya having a pregnant wife and trying to provide is taxing. I'd say im averaging 3-4 times a week in the gym when Im used to 5-6.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Remember these compounds don't typically produce an "on" feeling with aggression, etc. If anything I would expect a drop in libido especially since you're using S4. Ostarine alone at 20
    Mg cured my ulnar tunnel syndrome BTW. Something that had been bugging me for months. Goes to show how good it is at repair. What brand are you using? Oh and 45 minutes to finish a workout is perfect in my opinion. Expect greater recovery
    Ya I dunno I feel just as aggressive on this stuff as I do on anavar... Tren actually made me feel relaxed oddly enough. When I say on Im also talking about feeling strong and good about myself, but my wife says being on cycle gives me a kind of swagger and ya I feel a little off on sarms, and my libido still hasn't fully recovered and I've been on clomid forever. Its weird cause its like I have low t but my strength and energy isn't gone.
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    I've been curious about the products. Appreciate you logging them. Consider me in for the ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizzadrol View Post
    I've been curious about the products. Appreciate you logging them. Consider me in for the ride.
    Ya I'm close to finishing up just trying to get $60 together for the hormone panel, money's pretty tight - Im accepting donations for this test to show the results of this experiment. I'm not going to be able to make this happen on my own and it'd be a shame to not see the outcome.

    Any takers?
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    Definitely subbed for your log my man. Just out of curiosity were you taking hcg or hmg when you get your wife knocked up? Lol I guess it only takes one, but you were on for a while!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigKrabbe View Post
    Definitely subbed for your log my man. Just out of curiosity were you taking hcg or hmg when you get your wife knocked up? Lol I guess it only takes one, but you were on for a while!
    Actually I was taking clomid the whole time(25mg/day for the cycles duration) and ya I had been on awhile so Im not sure if me being on pct had anything to do with it. Point of conception was about the first week when I was on 50mg nolva and 100mg clomid. We had been trying for close to a year so I think being on lowers my sperm count/fertility.
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    Day: 87 - Lab Results

    Weight: 177

    Went in for my hormone panel yesterday - its been 12 weeks since I came off cycle. I ran clomid up until week 10 and ran the sarms weeks 1-8 then weeks 10-12, stopping Saturday. I had intended to do a blooddraw at week 9 or 10 but funds wouldn't allow it until now. So not completly to plan but as close as possible without putting my life on standby.

    So here's the readings:
    Testosterone, Serum - 15 - LOW - 348-1197
    LH - 0.5 - LOW - 1.7-8.6
    FSH - 0.5 - LOW - 1.5-12.4
    Estradiol - <6.0 - LOW - 7.6-42.6

    I'm not going to lie, I expected low but not this. I feel fine - strength, energy, recovery, endurance are all great. I even have a bit of a sex drive, just not what I'm used to. Im super lean and vascular, I look great right now. Something that I have noticed is my hair is falling out really bad. Other than that I've felt amazing, just a little off - I guess because my body was using sarms instead of hormones? Anyways I stand behind them 100% osta/s4 is legit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post
    Day: 87 - Lab Results

    Weight: 177

    Went in for my hormone panel yesterday - its been 12 weeks since I came off cycle. I ran clomid up until week 10 and ran the sarms weeks 1-8 then weeks 10-12, stopping Saturday. I had intended to do a blooddraw at week 9 or 10 but funds wouldn't allow it until now. So not completly to plan but as close as possible without putting my life on standby.

    So here's the readings:
    Testosterone, Serum - 15 - LOW - 348-1197
    LH - 0.5 - LOW - 1.7-8.6
    FSH - 0.5 - LOW - 1.5-12.4
    Estradiol - <6.0 - LOW - 7.6-42.6

    I'm not going to lie, I expected low but not this. I feel fine - strength, energy, recovery, endurance are all great. I even have a bit of a sex drive, just not what I'm used to. Im super lean and vascular, I look great right now. Something that I have noticed is my hair is falling out really bad. Other than that I've felt amazing, just a little off - I guess because my body was using sarms instead of hormones? Anyways I stand behind them 100% osta/s4 is legit.
    Did they give you actual numbers or just low?? I've been on osta this pct an I have been feeling pretty ****ing awesome for the most part. They will be a staple from now on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Did they give you actual numbers or just low?? I've been on osta this pct an I have been feeling pretty ****ing awesome for the most part. They will be a staple from now on.
    Pretty sure the number is 15.

    In some SARM studies I saw, people's test was negatively affected at like 3mg so 25mg probably takes a toll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post

    Pretty sure the number is 15.

    In some SARM studies I saw, people's test was negatively affected at like 3mg so 25mg probably takes a toll.
    Yeah I know the recommended dosing for osta I was referring to his bloodwork results, he's just put LOW and I was wondering if they have an actual number of where his hormones were sitting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post
    Yeah I know the recommended dosing for osta I was referring to his bloodwork results, he's just put LOW and I was wondering if they have an actual number of where his hormones were sitting.
    No, I was saying it appears as though his test is at 15. Which is obviously on the low side lol. Unless I am reading it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    Yeah I know the recommended dosing for osta I was referring to his bloodwork results, he's just put LOW and I was wondering if they have an actual number of where his hormones were sitting.
    Ya the serum test is 15 as in almost none, all my hormones seem close to nonexistent. The "low" is what the paper actually says, I wrote the whole line. If I have the same ratio of free test as I did with my last draw I'd that'd mean I have > 1 ng/ml.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post

    No, I was saying it appears as though his test is at 15. Which is obviously on the low side lol. Unless I am reading it wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post

    Ya the serum test is 15 as in almost none, all my hormones seem close to nonexistent. The "low" is what the paper actually says, I wrote the whole line.
    Oh haha I was reading it wrong, wow so your serum test is only 15? That's incredibly low, you have a plan of action about getting it back up?
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    Further proof that running a SARM in PCT is not the way to go. Damnit, and everyone thought they had found the magic compound....
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    I agree Warbird. Ran a 5 week pct with 12.5 mg Ostarine and 50mg clomid. 4 months later ran 2 weeks at 12.5mg ostarine and got bloodwork... Total Test was 152. Down from 852 pre-cycle. I find SARMS are very suppresive..to me at least. Something I will treat as a cycle from now on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    Further proof that running a SARM in PCT is not the way to go. Damnit, and everyone thought they had found the magic compound....
    Super buzzkill, that plan is out the window now lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    Oh haha I was reading it wrong, wow so your serum test is only 15? That's incredibly low, you have a plan of action about getting it back up?
    Yes its almost non existent. It means one of two things:
    Either one or both of the two compounds are suppressive, or I cant come back - I permanently damaged my hpta. Its also possible theyre partially suppressive and I have a damaged hpta. Either way sarms seem to be great for hrt, at least to me.

    What does this mean? Well first of all I am not going to stop cycling, I have every intention of competing NPC at 205 for an IFBB title. Plus I really like being on.

    So what needs to happen is more experimentation. I have started another 8 week blast of mast/tbol/test which is not particularly hard to recover from. Once this has been completed I will start another aggressive pct without sarms, and get another panel after 4 weeks. This will show(at least for me) if the sarms impact recovery or if I'm just unable to recover. Might be the case, I had been looking into trt.

    Maybe someone else thats running osta solo in pct can get bloods for markers of recovery? This might help assess the difference between pct with osta/s4 and pct just osta. That way down the road when I try another pct with just osta or s4 we'll have a better idea. Of course more people getting in on this would make it more of a case study.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warbird01 View Post
    Further proof that running a SARM in PCT is not the way to go. Damnit, and everyone thought they had found the magic compound....
    I ran both s4 and osta so its not quite over for me yet. Maybe one or the other might work, I won't know until further testing occurs being that I might just have a damaged hpta. Im still hopeful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post

    I ran both s4 and osta so its not quite over for me yet. Maybe one or the other might work, I won't know until further testing occurs being that I might just have a damaged hpta. Im still hopeful.
    I saw blood work with Osta only and it was normal. Maybe its the S4 causing much more of the suppression.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed View Post
    I saw blood work with Osta only and it was normal. Maybe its the S4 causing much more of the suppression.
    I have seen suppression in blood work of Ostra solo not even part of pct. And an interesting thread a while back on one of the ask PA sections..not sure which board, had some nice info on the fact SARM's were never meant to be less suppressive they were meant to display less androgenic side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    I have seen suppression in blood work of Ostra solo not even part of pct. And an interesting thread a while back on one of the ask PA sections..not sure which board, had some nice info on the fact SARM's were never meant to be less suppressive they were meant to display less androgenic side effects.
    That's a good point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smash1904 View Post

    Yes its almost non existent. It means one of two things:
    Either one or both of the two compounds are suppressive, or I cant come back - I permanently damaged my hpta. Its also possible theyre partially suppressive and I have a damaged hpta. Either way sarms seem to be great for hrt, at least to me.

    What does this mean? Well first of all I am not going to stop cycling, I have every intention of competing NPC at 205 for an IFBB title. Plus I really like being on.

    So what needs to happen is more experimentation. I have started another 8 week blast of mast/tbol/test which is not particularly hard to recover from. Once this has been completed I will start another aggressive pct without sarms, and get another panel after 4 weeks. This will show(at least for me) if the sarms impact recovery or if I'm just unable to recover. Might be the case, I had been looking into trt.

    Maybe someone else thats running osta solo in pct can get bloods for markers of recovery? This might help assess the difference between pct with osta/s4 and pct just osta. That way down the road when I try another pct with just osta or s4 we'll have a better idea. Of course more people getting in on this would make it more of a case study.
    I've just finished my ostarine that I used in pct, I plan to get bloodowork done in a few weeks, ill let ya know how it turns out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Stri8ed View Post

    I saw blood work with Osta only and it was normal. Maybe its the S4 causing much more of the suppression.
    Ya I kind of thought that might be the case, that's the main reason I want to retry pct with osta only and without sarms altogether. See what does and doesn't work for me, and if I can even recover whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbonah View Post

    I have seen suppression in blood work of Ostra solo not even part of pct. And an interesting thread a while back on one of the ask PA sections..not sure which board, had some nice info on the fact SARM's were never meant to be less suppressive they were meant to display less androgenic side effects.
    That would kind of explain the results and why I felt so awesome without all the androgenic side effects. I would argue that osta might be partially suppressive but wouldn't stop recovery during pct cause the pct would outweigh the suppression. Does anyone know how people feel after pct with osta? I felt a major crash coming off sarms. Tired, weak, sore, and irritable - it sucked.
  

  
 

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