PCT Help Please -

[cagz06]

Hi Guys, First I'm sorry for my wordiness here but I know you guys are going to want info so I wanted to outline my dilemma. I've been a lurker here for a while, learning as I go. I am a newbe to this world but we all started at some point. I am 45, 6 foot and 190 lbs. I am not new to working out but I am new to slower gains caused by age and I guess slower production of test and lack of hg production. 10 years ago I broke my shoulder at the gym, at that time I was 210 and pretty lean. Because of my thick bone structure in my head, I didn't get my shoulder fixed I just stopped working out.

I started putting in the time at the gym again because age was catching up. My brother in law, who has done a few competitions suggested a cycle. My first of course though I have done straight test in low doses years ago. But this was my first real cycle. He started me on Fina 75mg alone, 1 cc twice a week for about 4 weeks. After reading through your treads, and doing other research I found out that Fina is not a suggested for beginners. Not wanting to screw things up I went to the doc and had some blood work done, and with advice from a friend who owns a gym, I stacked with test e to complete the cycle for another 4 weeks
.
From there I went on eq/test mix 2500 for another 8 weeks and as I know eq is best run on a longer cycle of at least 12-15 weeks I ran out of test mix and went back to test e. and am coming to a close on that 15 weeks (only side effect - acne) and i hate it.. and my gains were slow because my diet was wrong. I was on a high protein, low carb/fat cutting diet. which is what I was used to without being on a cycle. As EQ increases red blood cell production, not eating enough trimmed more fat and built lean muscle and I am sure invoked catabolism. I can say i look good, but i should have gained much more muscle on this combined cycle. I know I screwed up and wasted good money. I'm okay with this. I consider it a my learning curve.

But now I need some solid input as I am afraid to ask friends anymore about this. there are more opinions than *******s in the world. I am coming to the end of my cycle and want to clean up, get my diet right and work out clean over the coming winter and cycle up again in the spring with some experience to guide me. What should I do for PCT. I have everything on hand, clomid, arimidex, aromasin, nolva and hcg. I have been taking all the proper ancillaries during cycle (cycle assist, milk thistle, cranberry, b5 for acne and a host of others.) I had no bloating what so ever so I didn't bother with an on cycle AI. I havent gained much having started at 190lbs 16% BF and I dropped to 173 and went back to 191 with 11% BF.

I know that I have to end my EQ 1 week prior to test e and then wait 14 days to start pct. Or at least thats how I figure it. Can you guys help me get off softly so I dont crash and lose what little I gained? What should I take, how should I take it? Are there any good test boosters I should take as well? I know some of you will look to take some frustration out on me for getting involved without good guidance and knowledge but I thought my brother in law was pointing me in the right direction and I thought he would give better advice since he has competed a few times. His only advice was screw the hcg and just take clomid for pct and just deal with acting like a bitch for a few weeks, I know there is a better way. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for previously omitting - my EQ Test E cycle was run at 250mg each 2x times oer week. 500mg test/500mg EQ.

 

[Matthersby]

I couldn't read it all. I just couldn't do it. Do you have clomid now? If no: torem works really well for a lot of guys. If yes: 90/60/30/30 but everyone's got a different protocol. If you can get HCG. Blast it @ anywhere from 1000-2500 iu's as soon as you stop pinning. Some guys say run it low once your gear has kicked in for cycle duration(including me) some say blast it at the end. Grab some D-Aspartic Acid and L-dopa. 3gms a day/ 250-500 mg a day. Everyone's going to have different advice, this has worked for me...

 

[Matthersby]

And read every thread in the PCT section for the last 3 months too.

 

[cagz06]

Yeah, I know.. sorry about that the length. Just trying to get all info out there including my cycle duration. I have clomid, arimidex, aromasin, Nolva and HCG. I have about another 3 weeks left of my cycle. Two weeks left of EQ, 3 weeks of test. Your clomid suggestion is 90/60/30/30 I assume that 90 week one, 60 week two and so on? HCG is a one time hit of 1000 to 2500 iu's? and this would be a one time pin or a weekly pin?

 

[Matthersby]

You could start the HCG now and run until PCT starts. I would personally. It really depends on how much you have to reconstitute. How many iu's. I love the stuff. If you have enough to pin 250 iu's EOD/e3d you could.... Some guys will say you could run the clomid lower concurrently with Nolva. Since you have aromasin, look into a post-post cycle low dose taper to prevent rebound. I can't advise on this as I haven't tried it yet

 

[cagz06]

Thank you for your imput. I've been in the PCT thread trying to gather info as you suggested. Theres a lot of it, and it gets a little confusing with all the different opinions. I also know PCT can depend on the cycle as well. I've heard that EQ is not a far stretch from test in it's makeup. So, I assume my main problem will be caused by test fluctuation and estrogen once PCT is in effect. What I dont want is to crash too hard. I liked being on cycle and would hate to have a bad end result from coming off. I will get some DAA and L Dopa as you suggest as well. I was reading about those the other day and I'm glad you mentioned it. I was on the fence.

 

[FranARG]

What Matt said. Start with the HCG now and finish before PCT.

 

[Matthersby]

When it comes to an investment in your health, $$4roids, and gains, drop another $30 on some goodies to add to your pct. Its worth it. You already have your SERM and HCG which IMO should do be sufficient but every little bit helps...

 

[maybe0123]

[/QUOTE] clomid suggestion is 90/60/30/30 I assume that 90 week one, 60 week two and so on? [/QUOTE]

No thats for torem, clomid 75/50/50/25 if you want do 100 for a couple days then 75

 

[Matthersby]

Like I said, many run it lower than I do....
However, since you are going to run HCG, Clomid 75 down to 25 is a more reasonable dosage.

 

[cagz06]

So which goodies do you suggest? I do have forma on hand as well, DMX15? I think, erase pro. I got this stuff as I was going through PCT forum and saw these suggestions. I got them just to have on hand once I get an idea of what cocktail I will start and complete PCT with. I will go and get DAA and L-Dopa. Will this be sufficiant to get my body to increase production of test? And also just to clarify, I just want to be sure how I am reading the suggestions. As it's been posted clomid 75/50/50/25 I am to assume that means per week (4 weeks in this case) dosed at 75 week one, 50 week two and three and the final week 25? I see a reply "No thats for torem, clomid 75/50/50/25 if you want do 100 for a couple days then 75" - I'm a bit confused. Maybe its the terminoligy I'm not picking up on. torem? It's not suggested to take a sucidal? Such as exemistane at any point? or the forma I have wich is applied like a lotion to the upper body.

 

[laneanders]

So which goodies do you suggest? I do have forma on hand as well, DMX15? I think, erase pro. I got this stuff as I was going through PCT forum and saw these suggestions. I got them just to have on hand once I get an idea of what cocktail I will start and complete PCT with. I will go and get DAA and L-Dopa. Will this be sufficiant to get my body to increase production of test? And also just to clarify, I just want to be sure how I am reading the suggestions. As it's been posted clomid 75/50/50/25 I am to assume that means per week (4 weeks in this case) dosed at 75 week one, 50 week two and three and the final week 25? I see a reply "No thats for torem, clomid 75/50/50/25 if you want do 100 for a couple days then 75" - I'm a bit confused. Maybe its the terminoligy I'm not picking up on. torem? It's not suggested to take a sucidal? Such as exemistane at any point? or the forma I have wich is applied like a lotion to the upper body.

You want to run some sort of SERM Torem or Clomid, they've recommended dosages for both. You want to use a natural test booster in conjunction with this you've outlined some options including DAA and L-Dopa as well. There are a lot of options out there for the natural boosters, I like Testabolan V2 (libido), Reversitol V2, Intimidate SRT, and Tropinol XP - Lights Out also has L-Dopa.

 

[Matthersby]

It's awesome you're being so through. That's not the problem around here typically. On a cycle over 12 weeks:
SERM
HCG(semi-optional but pretty standard)
Test booster

Some folks will run 10 other things including an AI taper towards end and after. This is all supplementary as you have more than what is required currently on hand....

 

[cagz06]

More great info. But forgive me guys, SERM? Is that Clomid? And you guys dont suggest a Suicidal? Exemistaine? Just curious, and I want to be sure what your calling a SERM. Also, HCG to be started now, at a 3x per week pin, then 2 weeks after my last test e pin, I start the clomid & test booster? When do I stop the HCG in this scenario? Or do I just continue untill im out of it. I have a few kits of one ampule HCG 5k iu amplue. I was also told that HGH is good to run if I wanted to attempt to maintain. I have a couple of those kits too. Sorry for all the questions. I just want to qualify and/or disqualify.

You guuys have made it pretty simple, I just over think things sometimes. And when it comes to my health, over thinking is not a bad thing. I am also educating myself with this for the future.

Thanks for all your very helpful advice. You guys are great...

 

[rphash49]

More great info. But forgive me guys, SERM? Is that Clomid? And you guys dont suggest a Suicidal? Exemistaine? Just curious, and I want to be sure what your calling a SERM. Also, HCG to be started now, at a 3x per week pin, then 2 weeks after my last test e pin, I start the clomid & test booster? When do I stop the HCG in this scenario? Or do I just continue untill im out of it. I have a few kits of one ampule HCG 5k iu amplue. I was also told that HGH is good to run if I wanted to attempt to maintain. I have a couple of those kits too. Sorry for all the questions. I just want to qualify and/or disqualify.

You guuys have made it pretty simple, I just over think things sometimes. And when it comes to my health, over thinking is not a bad thing. I am also educating myself with this for the future.

Thanks for all your very helpful advice. You guys are great...

Serm: toremifene, Clomid, Nolva(torem is the best followed by Clomid)
Exemestane is an AI not a serm
Yes start your PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Stop HCG at end of cycle. It can be suppressive so don't run it into pct.

 

[cagz06]

Guys.. thanks for the support and the help. Its Much appreciated and all noted. This is the only forum I belong to dedicated to this info, and well worth it for getting advice from knowedgeable people. I will be back prior to my setting up a new cycle for the spring to pick your brains again so I can sart correctly and finish correctly. I will also be spending alot of time within the walls of this forum to read and learn. I do know being the owner of a few businesses that my biggest issue, and the most important is my diet and my inability to beable to eat through the day as I should. This will be my hardest task, but I am determined. I wish there was a way to repay for the advice...

Thanks Again!!

 

[Matthersby]

Serm: toremifene, Clomid, Nolva(torem is the best followed by Clomid)
Exemestane is an AI not a serm
Yes start your PCT 2 weeks after last pin
Stop HCG at end of cycle. It can be suppressive so don't run it into pct.

^ this ^ this ^ and this ^

 

[cagz06]

^ this ^ this ^ and this ^

Thank You Matthersby - you've been a life saver. So, no Nolva - just clomid. I heard to take clomid only if I develop gyno during PCT and that clomid alone will make me depressed and wacky. I am going with what you guys are saying for sure, I'm just resolving with what I was told. I have to make sense of of this so I can remember all of it. I read in this forum someplace that taking a suicidal like exemistaine with clomid is ideal. What can I expect? What cons may develope and what should I do if something does? I promise after this post I will leave you guys alone. I know I'm pushing it with all the questions. Just trying to educate. I've been reading through the PCT forum and see conflicting info at times.

Re-Cap; Stop EQ one week prior to stopping Test E. 14 days after my last pin, start clomid week one 75, week two and three 50, week four 25 mg taper. HCG to be run from now until my last pin. and when do I start taking the DAA and L Dopa and do I take it as directed on the bottle? Is there anything else I should take as an ancillary or to support test production? What is most important to me here is not only keeping my gains to the best of my ability but to maintain a good brain so I can run my business. I cant be a basket case working with the public.. This is what has me most concerned.

 

[Matthersby]

Thank You Matthersby - you've been a life saver. So, no Nolva - just clomid. I heard to take clomid only if I develop gyno during PCT and that clomid alone will make me depressed and wacky. I am going with what you guys are saying for sure, I'm just resolving with what I was told. I have to make sense of of this so I can remember all of it. I read in this forum someplace that taking a suicidal like exemistaine with clomid is ideal. What can I expect? What cons may develope and what should I do if something does? I promise after this post I will leave you guys alone. I know I'm pushing it with all the questions. Just trying to educate. I've been reading through the PCT forum and see conflicting info at times.

Re-Cap; Stop EQ one week prior to stopping Test E. 14 days after my last pin, start clomid week one 75, week two and three 50, week four 25 mg taper. HCG to be run from now until my last pin. and when do I start taking the DAA and L Dopa and do I take it as directed on the bottle? Is there anything else I should take as an ancillary or to support test production? What is most important to me here is not only keeping my gains to the best of my ability but to maintain a good brain so I can run my business. I cant be a basket case working with the public.. This is what has me most concerned.

Clomid is most known for mild depression and emotional side effects. They are easily controlled. We all joke about it though. Your HCG timing is fine. Start the DAA and Ldopa the same day you start clomid. I can't advise on exemestane except I believe once your clomid taper is 3/4 done you start it and slowly taper for 2-4 weeks but I have NO IDEA so you hot some research to do. Other than that, you're good. Start your HCG YESTERDAY! if you need help with reconstitution or storage, pm me...

 

[Matthersby]

You are only running HCG for 2-3 weeks so you're going to waste some. May as well pin 500 iu's MWF. Should do nicely. Just don't pin once day 14 of ester clear is up and pct starts.

 

[cagz06]

will do, hey. I screwed up. So waste in this case has been an ongoing venture for me. I will do whats necessary to exit softly and absorb the financial hit with a smile at this point.. Far as I'm concerned, I learned a great deal and will be better equipped to cycle up next year.

 

[dkgreene88]

You definitely should run a good SERM such as Clomid (at least that's what I did) as well as a good test booster. What I used for my last PCT was Testabolan V2 and Reversitol V2. You could also throw in Intimidate SRT and/or Tropinol XP. I also ran a good sleep aid/ HGH booster such as Lights Out!

 

[cagz06]

So far, I will be taking HCG until my last pin, two weeks after my last pin I have the clomid at 75/50/50/25 - I read quite a few messages in the PCT forum suggesting Nolva as well at 20/20/20/20. I have DAA and L Dopa right now. I am taking HGH also so I dont really need a booster for that, as I will be staying on it for a few more months at least anyway. I have Animal PM which I take now 30 mins before bedtime which I know is a sleep aid/HGH booster as well and will continue to take that.. Again, thanks guys for all your imput and help and for refraining in taking the opertunity to flame me for this misguided venture.