12 Week Dianabol, Test, Tren lean bulking cycle log - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 3

12 Week Dianabol, Test, Tren lean bulking cycle log

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    In 5 weeks its going to be all water. But keep busting your a$$ in the gym and the muscle will come

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    Fueled Passion why are you taking pro-hormones? Considering the health hazards and endocrine suppresion from them, might as well take the real gear...
    Dude, I've come full circle back to minimum amounts of gear, if any. H-Drol was something that quite honestly whipped any experience I ever had on gear (minus EQ + Masteron, that combo was noice).

    I'm on TRT due to going the "real gear" route. I don't cycle anymore, and I'm always shutdown. I care about my health and avoiding addictive tendencies moreso than I do @ being 200lbs and shredded at this point. I'll get there, it'll just take more time.

    Not to mention that H-drol is simply a two-step process to Oral T. Plus, the legalilty is a concern for me. Consider it a personal conviction..
    I personally wish Testosterone was legal. I understand banning Tren because a few weeks on that stuff and any man can know in his heart that it doesn't belong in his body, but test? It's hardly an offender. Everything is mild on side effects and the gains in strength, size and sex drive are outstanding. If it were legal, I'd just blast and cruise with 150mg cruise and 800-1000mg blast. But it isn't legal, and so I want to honor the law (however much I disagree with it).


    To the OP,

    Tren will cut you down and give you muscle mass all at the same time. You can either have an outstanding bulk - where accumulating fat is impossible, or you can have a cut where not an ounce of muscle is lost. My suggestion - eat tons of protein. Tren loves protein and responds well to low carb diets, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mp859 View Post
    In 5 weeks its going to be almost all water. But keep busting your a$$ in the gym and the muscle will come
    This is also why I am a fan of EQ + Masteron. They help keep gains dry, however slow they may come.
    •   
       

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    FP now i understand why you don't use gear anymore. I am afraid of being permanently shutdown... going to up my HCG to 1500 IUs a week 750 monday 750 thursday and going to have a long and heavy pct after.... Got my fingers crossed for a fast and full recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    FP now i understand why you don't use gear anymore. I am afraid of being permanently shutdown... going to up my HCG to 1500 IUs a week 750 monday 750 thursday and going to have a long and heavy pct after.... Got my fingers crossed for a fast and full recovery.
    Well, I wasn't 100% shutdown but too much for my age for certain. I tested once @ 322 then again 2 months later @ 222 so it wasn't looking good. I would have had to run clomid and DAA perpetually to keep levels in mid-range so I figured if I have to be committed to something around the clock it needs to be testosterone supplementation. I get it for $150/month using a men's clinic and I get bloods whenever I need + Anastrozole on the house as needed.

    So, I run a baseline of 900-1300 total T and cycle the pro-hormones as needed, which are a rare thing anyways. I use HCG as needed but when running TRT only I don't really need it.

    It's a slow, steady approach rather than cycling --> getting huge --> crashing --> starting over--> repeat process.. you get the drift.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    FP now i understand why you don't use gear anymore. I am afraid of being permanently shutdown... going to up my HCG to 1500 IUs a week 750 monday 750 thursday and going to have a long and heavy pct after.... Got my fingers crossed for a fast and full recovery.
    There's absolutely no benefit to using more hcg, there's no additional stimulation of the testes than at 250iu. Ill throw a link up later when I get home from work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukef2000 View Post

    There's absolutely no benefit to using more hcg, there's no additional stimulation of the testes than at 250iu. Ill throw a link up later when I get home from work.
    Agreed. Waiting for somebody w link to research. I agree w FP too. although 10-12 weeks of test will give me 10-15 lbs, 5 weeks of Epistane will give me 8 and I'm shut down only 1/2 the time. Sometimes slow and steady wins. Especially since you can cycle more often doing this(if you follow time on+pct=time off) Just 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthersby View Post
    Agreed. Waiting for somebody w link to research. I agree w FP too. although 10-12 weeks of test will give me 10-15 lbs, 5 weeks of Epistane will give me 8 and I'm shut down only 1/2 the time. Sometimes slow and steady wins. Especially since you can cycle more often doing this(if you follow time on+pct=time off) Just 2
    Strangely enough, I find the cycle itself is a distraction to the parts of bodybuilding discipline that really matters, like how I'm eating, what bloats me, what makes me hungrier after eating, what macros serve my goals best, etc etc.

    It's almost impossible to single out changes when I'm constantly in an atypical scenario. It's either I'm super efficient with food because of the cycle or I'm terribly inefficient due to PCT and having low hormone levels. Neither serves to tell me how my body reacts to different foods, macros or caloric intakes because neither of these are normal, sustainable states of anabolism.

    Same goes for lifting, too. Can't tell which style or rep range works best while I'm in super-anabolic mode or super-crash mode. You just don't learn anything about your training and diet when constantly cycling steroids.
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    If you aren't keeping gains, ,size , strength, appetite after you're cycle your doing something wrong lol
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    Not always applicable... The last two posts came from guys that either genetically or due to cycling, have lower test levels already. And I'm also assuming you're referring to dry compounds, because I've never heard of anyone keeping 100% of what they gained on dbol, etc...
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    You'll never keep 100% of your gains . But you definitely can keep up to 75% of your gains on injects for sure. Diet an pct protocol that's how ya stay big
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    It's sometimes just hard to eat enough and train hard enough after the cycle. At least for me it definitely takes a lot more discipline
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    If somebody is unable to recover from a cycle, and they are put on TRT for the rest of their life, does that make him sterile and unable to have children?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    If somebody is unable to recover from a cycle, and they are put on TRT for the rest of their life, does that make him sterile and unable to have children?
    Yes well it makes his chances much less.
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    Just store some sperm for when you want to have babies!
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    lol jizz in a cup and put in a freezer
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    If somebody is unable to recover from a cycle, and they are put on TRT for the rest of their life, does that make him sterile and unable to have children?
    No it doesn't. It just means they have a harder time trying to conceive, I mean Jay cutler gave his mrs a kid and I'm pretty sure he runs a thing or two lol
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    I think Kenny F!?cking powers is the father of jay cutlers baby. Saw that on tmz
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    Yes well it makes his chances much less.
    Not to argue with Russian's post, but yes you are correct tinytony.

    I've had serious conversation with my nurse practitioner about that possibility. Fortunately, having a lazy endocrine system and remaining fertile is very possible. According to my doc, the longest fertility recovery period, if you were taking no drugs or supplements to help get it back, is 1 year. Most men become fertile again within 6 months of discontinuing testosterone use.

    What isn't guaranteed is when you take Tren, D-bol, Winny, EQ, Deca, etc. There aren't studies done on those drugs.

    The normal protocol for TRT patients that are going to attempt to get wifey preggers is to drop to dose down to below 100mg/wk and introduce hcg @ 250iu twice/wk. Clomid may also be used if needed.

    Fertility and sperm production are still very present in TRT patients. I would know and just proved it to my wife last night.
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    Fp did u also get her prego last night? What I mean is of course u will bust and even drench ur wife in sperm. But can that sperm actually creat a healthy baby when on trt w hcg/clomid etc..?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GLHF View Post
    Fp did u also get her prego last night? What I mean is of course u will bust and even drench ur wife in sperm. But can that sperm actually creat a healthy baby when on trt w hcg/clomid etc..?
    Well, thats the point I am making though about the men's clinic that I go to. They have 10,000+ patients just in the area I live in and have been doing this for over 10 years now. They know it works since they have been doing it consistently for quite some time now. Lower the dose + hcg protocol is sufficient for most of the men that are on TRT.

    Not to mention the countless number of men that have gotten their wives pregnant during a cycle...
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    There is no possibility of an unhealthy baby using any hormonal product.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    cycle update:

    okay guys week 6 is coming to an end.. 10 more weeks to go.

    Stats:
    205 lbs
    Around 16-17 % body fat

    Starting this monday week 7, i begin my 10 week cut.
    Starting clen at 40 mcg will taper up, winstrol at 50 mg ed, keeping test at 500 a week and tren ace 350 a week.

    On my 6 week bulk i put on around 22-23 lbs, a good amount of it which was water, no noticebale fat gains.
    Eating 4000 calories a day, roughly 300 grams of protein, high carbs, good amount of fats.

    On the cutting portion of my cycle, i will lower my calories to 2500-3000, carb cycling, two low carb days and one moderate carb day to keep muscles full with glycogen. Will be doing 15 Min HIIT cardio before lifting sessions and in the morning fasted on off days.

    Goal is to get to 175-180 lbs by mid December at sub 10% bodyfat. Is this achievable with what i layed out?

    If fat loss slows down then will incorporate more cardio, cut calories to 2300-2500, and perhaps t3 but I think i should be fine for now...

    any suggestions?


    progress pic.
    205 lbs, strong, bloated and holding a good amount of fat.
    Attachment 89766
    Assuming you are going to lower the test dose as you run the tren from here on out..I would suggest eating maintenance calories and adding cardio to the routine.

    week 7 - 30 min cardio 5-7 times per wk
    week 8 - 45 min cardio 5-7 per wk
    week 9 - 60 min cardio 5 times/wk
    week 10 - 60 min cardio 5 per wk
    week 11 - 75 min cardio 5 per wk
    week 12 - 75 min cardio 7 per wk

    If you eat maintenance, which should be in the 3200 calorie range, you'll get ripped and won't lose an ounce of muscle in the process. Tren makes the impossible very possible, my friend. However, to lose that much body fat in this period of time,you'll have to put in your fair share of cardio. This should be treated similar to pre-contest dieting. Lower the cals alittle bit, increase the cardio alot, and start shifting your macros away from carbs and more to protein and fats as you approach week 12...

    Thats what I'd do...
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    Thanks for your help FP. It's much appreciated =)

    So yesterday beginning of week 7 I started my cut.
    Took 40 mcg of clen, was shaking but i will build a tolerance to it quick.
    Did 15 min of cardio after my lifting training session.
    Still on 500 mg of test, 350 mg of tren.

    I'm thinking of using the winstrol in the last 6-8 weeks.. i dont want to run it for the full 10 week cut because of the liver toxicity... especially considering i used dbol for 4 weeks in the beginning.. thats a lot of orals.. What do u think FP? If i take milk thistle and dont drink is it relatively safe to run 50 mg of Winny for 10 weeks? Or should i just save it for the last 6 weeks to harden.

    Weight is down to 201 already, was at 204 on Sunday.
    I attribute that to me taking a diuritic yesterday and clen, losing water weight.
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    Fuxk your joints are going to hate you haha
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    Lol its all good dubfungus i work at gnc i got that glucosamine for the joints

    im about to say **** it and just runny winny for 10 weeks, do 30 mgs the first week, 40 second, then kill it with 50 from then on.
    Go heavy on the liver support supps, fish oil, and joint supports and stay away from alcohol.
    should be good lol

    btw FP i repped you, youve been very helpful thanks man
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    Hey AK, been lurking since the beginning, I don't know if I'm missing something or if everyone else is, but allotting 2 weeks between a 4 week liver toxic oral and starting another for 10 is reeeeeeaaaaly pushing it in the toxicity aspect. You've had a really successful cycle already and could easily cut on test/tren or even test alone without losing an ounce of muscle. Like I said, if I'm missing something, disregard. But I personally, since I like finishers, would just run it the last two weeks and an additional two while the esters clear. That way you've got a 4 week liver recoup/4 week winnie run. Best of luck...
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    Thanks for your help FP. It's much appreciated =)

    So yesterday beginning of week 7 I started my cut.
    Took 40 mcg of clen, was shaking but i will build a tolerance to it quick.
    Did 15 min of cardio after my lifting training session.
    Still on 500 mg of test, 350 mg of tren.

    I'm thinking of using the winstrol in the last 6-8 weeks.. i dont want to run it for the full 10 week cut because of the liver toxicity... especially considering i used dbol for 4 weeks in the beginning.. thats a lot of orals.. What do u think FP? If i take milk thistle and dont drink is it relatively safe to run 50 mg of Winny for 10 weeks? Or should i just save it for the last 6 weeks to harden.

    Weight is down to 201 already, was at 204 on Sunday.
    I attribute that to me taking a diuritic yesterday and clen, losing water weight.
    You dont need Winny to do this right. That Tren will get exponentially tougher each passing week. Granted, when I did it I ran Tren-E, so the stuff compounded as i went along, getting more and more intense.

    I recommend tapering the Test dose all the way down to 150mg/wk over the next three weeks. You'll start drying up. If you wanted to add anything, add MASTERON. Freakin Masteron is golden especially with Tren. It'll get you even more ripped, and much safer than Winny could ever amount to. Even better is its anti-estrogen properties so it fights gyno symptons very well. Since Mast-P is the most common form, I'd run it like this..

    Test - 150mg/wk
    Tren - 350mg/wk
    Mast - 300mg/wk

    Ride that all the way to the end. Taking Tren out first --> then taper Masteron to 150mg/wk for a few weeks --> then dropping both Mast and Test for PCT. Heck, techinically you could use 100mg Masteron during PCT as well to keep estrogen at bay, just a thought. I've never tried that but it might work well since I have heard of others doing this.

    The best thing about dropping the Test down and keeping the Tren the same is you'll notice no change in strength or lean tissue development. Tren whips Test at competing with androgen receptors. Lots of that Test is likely converting to estrogen since it can't compete with Tren at the receptor site, which is why its best to run testosterone at a low dose...even better, using a long ester Test w/ a short ester Tren. That way, Tren fries up quickly but you still have some Test floating in your system to take over. So really you'll only notice water weight coming off. Now, you might also notice sex drive changes. No worries. Just make adjustments as needed. I personally would run Melanotan II to help with sex drive and to stifle appetite since Tren makes me sssooooooo hungry.

    Just my thoughts. Cardio, Protein and Tren/Mast. Those alone will give results with or without Testosterone and Winny.
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    yeah ur right bro, gunna save the winny for last 4 weeks. Go easy on my liver

    Don't have any masteron for this cycle..

    next cycle will be andromix though, 350 mg test, 350 mg tren, 350 mg masteron per week =)

    already taking melanotan 2. that stuff is just amazing, gives my body a nice tan glow, wake up in the morning with hardons of steel, nectar of the gods lol
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    yeah ur right bro, gunna save the winny for last 4 weeks. Go easy on my liver

    Don't have any masteron for this cycle..

    next cycle will be andromix though, 350 mg test, 350 mg tren, 350 mg masteron per week =)

    already taking melanotan 2. that stuff is just amazing, gives my body a nice tan glow, wake up in the morning with hardons of steel, nectar of the gods lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    yeah ur right bro, gunna save the winny for last 4 weeks. Go easy on my liver

    Don't have any masteron for this cycle..

    next cycle will be andromix though, 350 mg test, 350 mg tren, 350 mg masteron per week =)

    already taking melanotan 2. that stuff is just amazing, gives my body a nice tan glow, wake up in the morning with hardons of steel, nectar of the gods lol
    Ur next cycle will be more fun, IMO. Better composition changes anyways...Thing is about Tren is the more you eat, the harder & leaner you get, lol. Test packs on weight and makes you feel just right, but Tren has a more pronounced effect on lean tissue development only.

    I kinda look at Tren as a laser beam effect on strength and muscle mass, while Test is like a shotgun affect, increasing everything - muscle, weight, water, estrogen, dopamine, IGF, etc. Tren just addresses that IGF/strength/nutrient partitioning most of all, thus - quality gains. Granted, I still don't think it is the best bulker.

    Now...Dbol and Tren w/ low dose of Test - absolutely the best bulking stack out there.
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    Wow FP you sure know a thing or two about anabolics =)
    I wasn't a big fan of dbol i felt very chunky and bloated, granted its only temporary. but i would rather go for dry hard lean gains instead of the quick water bloat. plus its easier to gauge how much lean tissue you build if water is out of the equation.


    Also FP i have a quick question for you, i lost 4 lbs in 3 days since starting my cut on monday. is it safe to say that is mostly water?

    did back today, strength is same, maybe slightly increased since last week so i think im not losing any muscle tissue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    Wow FP you sure know a thing or two about anabolics =)
    I wasn't a big fan of dbol i felt very chunky and bloated, granted its only temporary. but i would rather go for dry hard lean gains instead of the quick water bloat. plus its easier to gauge how much lean tissue you build if water is out of the equation.


    Also FP i have a quick question for you, i lost 4 lbs in 3 days since starting my cut on monday. is it safe to say that is mostly water?

    did back today, strength is same, maybe slightly increased since last week so i think im not losing any muscle tissue.
    Yes, it's all water weight.

    This is why I told you to eat maintenance calories, which I mentioned as being close to 3200 kcals, but I'm sure you have a better idea than I do. Muscle mass determines metabolic rate, not total body weight. So, if u are eating maintenance calories, then hit the cardio hard and heavy, your body will use it's fat to generate energy for those extra calories expended in cardio. If u did in fact add 5-10lbs of lean tissue, then you need to eat more calories per day to maintain that extra weight. Generally speaking, to maintain a pound of muscle per day = 20-30 kcals. To build a lb...who knows (too much, imo). So if you packed on 10 extra lbs of muscle during weeks 1-6 ( I doubt it but maybe you did, who knows ), then your BMR theoretically went up 200-300 kcals.

    Bottom line = figure up your maintenance level calories before adding in cardio --> eat that amount --> add cardio. Get lean, lose no muscle mass.
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    Im eating slighly less than maintenance around 3000 calories a day.

    With work, school, training, i only have time for 15 min HIIT cardio after lifting session, always on the run man,

    I think u have a good plan eating maintenance and letting the cardio burn of the fat, but in my case i dont have time for 75 min of cardio a day plus weight training. I do what I can OK. Im not a professionial bodybuilder or hardcore fitness physique competitor, i have a life outside the gym but im doing my best okay. And ur right man i probably didnt put on 10 lbs of muscle but atleast i tried and gave it my all in those 6 weeks.

    Im going to continue eating a very slight deficit, continue taking my clen, doing my HIIT cardio, on days when i have more available time i will do more cardio.



    Losing water weight now, when weight loss slows down i know i got rid of excess water gained on the 6 week bulk.
    Then i will have a better idea of how much muscle i built in those 6 weeks.

    You would be surprised man, with the right diet, training, and heart what a human body is capable of.

    Im confidident i build 10 lbs

    And If i didn't **** it man, i have my whole life ahead of me to build those measly 10 lbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    Im eating slighly less than maintenance around 3000 calories a day.

    With work, school, training, i only have time for 15 min HIIT cardio after lifting session, always on the run man,

    I think u have a good plan eating maintenance and letting the cardio burn of the fat, but in my case i dont have time for 75 min of cardio a day plus weight training. I do what I can OK. Im not a professionial bodybuilder or hardcore fitness physique competitor, i have a life outside the gym but im doing my best okay. And ur right man i probably didnt put on 10 lbs of muscle but atleast i tried and gave it my all in those 6 weeks.

    Im going to continue eating a very slight deficit, continue taking my clen, doing my HIIT cardio, on days when i have more available time i will do more cardio.



    Losing water weight now, when weight loss slows down i know i got rid of excess water gained on the 6 week bulk.
    Then i will have a better idea of how much muscle i built in those 6 weeks.

    You would be surprised man, with the right diet, training, and heart what a human body is capable of.

    Im confidident i build 10 lbs

    And If i didn't **** it man, i have my whole life ahead of me to build those measly 10 lbs
    Then I'd say make half your deficit in caloric restrictions and half in caloric expenditures thru cardio. That is a more reasonable approach that can still give good results. Just remember, 500 kcal deficit daily can potentially burn up to 1lb of fat per week.
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    Gotchu FP.


    Losing water fast... haha its actually kind of dissapointing, arms are down by quarter of an inch when not pumped, just lookng smaller in general.
    I guess its all part of the game, just got to wait it out =)

    Tren and clen hit me brutally hard last night. Tossed and turned in bed from 11 to 5 in the morning, my body was either cold or burning up.
    Terrible experience.

    Strength is still holding up well, keeping my test at 500 a week stacked with an ai, ai is keeping estrogen at bay, water is dropping and gyno is nonexistent.

    mmm what else.. Yeah thats pretty much it, gunna eat at a slight deficit, continue test, and tren to preserve muscle, eat clean, do my cardio, well see where i end up in 10 weeks.


    Lol im never getting chunky again, cutting down SUCKS lol i feel like im wasting my gear because im not building muscle but i know its not being wasted as its preserving the amount of muscle i have
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    Buy some Ketotifen for sleep issues.

    1mg of that stuff will put you out no problem once you get the heart rate down. Get yourself a towel for night sweats if they are getting real bad. Besides that, you are supposed to run Keto w/ Clen so you can run Clen continuously instead of cycling it every two weeks...
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussianAK47 View Post
    Gotchu FP.

    Losing water fast... haha its actually kind of dissapointing, arms are down by quarter of an inch when not pumped, just lookng smaller in general.
    I guess its all part of the game, just got to wait it out =)

    Tren and clen hit me brutally hard last night. Tossed and turned in bed from 11 to 5 in the morning, my body was either cold or burning up.
    Terrible experience.

    Strength is still holding up well, keeping my test at 500 a week stacked with an ai, ai is keeping estrogen at bay, water is dropping and gyno is nonexistent.

    mmm what else.. Yeah thats pretty much it, gunna eat at a slight deficit, continue test, and tren to preserve muscle, eat clean, do my cardio, well see where i end up in 10 weeks.

    Lol im never getting chunky again, cutting down SUCKS lol i feel like im wasting my gear because im not building muscle but i know its not being wasted as its preserving the amount of muscle i have
    Are you usibg prami? That crap gives ne hot n cold flashes even at .2 mg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    Are you usibg prami? That crap gives ne hot n cold flashes even at .2 mg.
    That stuff makes me throw up, lol. I have a full bottle collecting dust
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    Won't be another 2-3 weeks until i can get ahold of a supply of ketotifin ... FP what do u think about Benadryl to upregulate Beta Receptors in the meantime or is that bull**** bro science?

    And im using Caber, been on caber for over a week now.. no issues with sleep at all throughout this whole cycle just last night.
    could just be a nasty coincidence
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