First Epistane Cycle Starts Today

[lancevug]

New to website and PH cycle. Have learned a lot of great stuff from this site by reading all the forums over the last few weeks gaining insight to PHs.

I decided to go with Epistane for my first PH cycle. It seems to be the most mild for a beginner and I am looking to cut down body fat. I feel as if I will be prone to gyno, more out of hypochondria than anything, but also have some fat on my chest.

I am taking Epi 2a 3a along with Protext X. I will be supplementing hawthorne berry, B5, taurine, and a good multi. I will be dosing 20mg per day first week and then 30mg per day for weeks 2-5.

From all the forums I have read there are mixed feelings on gyno from Epistane. I have tamox and was wondering what people have experienced as symptoms of gyno and if I can take tamox with epistane? If I should not take it on cycle, do you recommend to take it along with an all-in one post cycle? What doses of tamox for PCT and duration?

I know there are a ton of threads on this. Wanted to start my own for specific help to my cycle. I have read great things from people on this site, so please do not just reference me to a previous thread. If you don't want to respond then don't.

 

[macdady]

Don't take Nova on cycle
Rebound gyno is the issue with epi
Go six weeks for the cycle and do not bother at 20mgs its useless... your questions are very basic and could be Answered through basic research

 

[Matthersby]

30/40/40/40, possible 5th week@40
Grab some aromasin (exemestane) from a research company.
I don't use Nolva but I imagine: 20/20/10/10
DAA@ 3 gms a day

Easy cycle......... hopefully.........

 

[FranARG]

Not trying to flame you here, but I think you should do a little more research before jumping into a cycle.
1) You do not have a good on-cycle support (you should use Cycle Support or something like that, along with that Taurine and Multi you mentioned).
2) You dont have a planned PCT, which should be the first thing you get before thinking of cycling any PH or Steroid. Nolva/Tamox alone will not be enough, though it is very important. You should get Erase, or any OTC AI with Armistane (its active compund), and DAA.

What are your stats? How long have you been working out?

Nolva/Tamox dose is usually 20/20/10/10.

Rebound gyno may be a concern with Epi, so I would advise you to get the right stuff (an AI for PCT, and if you think you are gyno prone be sure you can quickly get Caber/Prami -I only tried Caber- and/or Letro).

 

[lancevug]

I have read many, many threads that have cases of gyno "symptoms" on cycle of Epi. Are they wrong? Taking it wrong?

The questions I could not find are:

What is the dose of Nova for PCT?

Would you consider Epi a novice PH?

Are there gyno symptoms?

 

[Matthersby]

Rebound gyno: as stated CAN happen w EPI
Painful back and calf pumps.
Blood Pressure
Irritability/aggression
elevated liver enzymes and LDL/HDL most likely will be underlying. Be aware of symptoms.
Lots of fish oil and milk thistle between epi doses.

 

[Matthersby]

I have read many, many threads that have cases of gyno "symptoms" on cycle of Epi. Are they wrong? Taking it wrong?

The questions I could not find are:

What is the dose of Nova for PCT? 20/20/10/10

Would you consider Epi a novice PH? YES

Are there gyno symptoms? NOT TYPICALLY

but typical and you may be two different things.........

 

[lancevug]

FranARG, I do have a planned all-in-one PCT I have Protect Cycle 3X and Nolva. For On cycle, I am Using ProteX along with the other supplements and some joint maintenance.

I do not claim to be an expert and I have started my on-cycle load week of my ProteX and hawthorne berry. I start the Epi next week. I waited for my Nolva to get to me before starting. I have been working out for 10 years, just using simple creatine and general pre workouts. I am 5'11" and 220lbs 18% BF looking to lean out. No longer interested in getting bigger. Workouts have been adjusted and using a PH to reinvigorate my workouts and break through a plateau.

I do appreciate the response FranARG and the understanding.

 

[lancevug]

but typical and you may be two different things.........

Thanks Matthersby.

From What I have found this is what I am doing to combat the following:

Blood pressure: Hawthorne Berry (checking BP often at work)
Back and Calf Pumps: Taurine
Milk Thistle: ProteX has a good amount...Would you recommend additional?

Thanks for the advice. Very solid. Very appreciated.

 

[Matthersby]

Ya, an AI. Just in case.
I like to add L-dopa to PCT for MANY reasons, especially alongside DAA. NOW makes a dirt cheap one if you look online.

Hopefully you already take a lot of fish oil anyways.... Good luck, EPI is fun.

 

[FranARG]

FranARG, I do have a planned all-in-one PCT I have Protect Cycle 3X and Nolva. For On cycle, I am Using ProteX along with the other supplements and some joint maintenance.

I do not claim to be an expert and I have started my on-cycle load week of my ProteX and hawthorne berry. I start the Epi next week. I waited for my Nolva to get to me before starting. I have been working out for 10 years, just using simple creatine and general pre workouts. I am 5'11" and 220lbs 18% BF looking to lean out. No longer interested in getting bigger. Workouts have been adjusted and using a PH to reinvigorate my workouts and break through a plateau.

I do appreciate the response FranARG and the understanding.

Well, then, it seems you got things properly arranged. I would consider taking DAA, 3gr per day, to boost your natural test production.

Also, on cycle gyno symptoms can happen. In my last Epi cycle I had lactating and sore nipples and had to take some Caber to kill it. I took .50mg E3D for 10 days and the symptoms went away. Then, on my PCT, I also had the same problem and Caber once again did its job nicely.

 

[Matthersby]

Well, then, it seems you got things properly arranged. I would consider taking DAA, 3gr per day, to boost your natural test production.

Also, on cycle gyno symptoms can happen. In my last Epi cycle I had lactating and sore nipples and had to take some Caber to kill it. I took .50mg E3D for 10 days and the symptoms went away. Then, on my PCT, I also had the same problem and Caber once again did its job nicely.

^ you see ^ "typical" is not everyone.
Being prepared is key...

 

[maybe0123]

In my last Epi cycle I had lactating and sore nipples

Yup this sucks, happend to me too

 

[Lukef2000]

New to website and PH cycle. Have learned a lot of great stuff from this site by reading all the forums over the last few weeks gaining insight to PHs.

I decided to go with Epistane for my first PH cycle. It seems to be the most mild for a beginner and I am looking to cut down body fat. I feel as if I will be prone to gyno, more out of hypochondria than anything, but also have some fat on my chest.

I am taking Epi 2a 3a along with Protext X. I will be supplementing hawthorne berry, B5, taurine, and a good multi. I will be dosing 20mg per day first week and then 30mg per day for weeks 2-5.

From all the forums I have read there are mixed feelings on gyno from Epistane. I have tamox and was wondering what people have experienced as symptoms of gyno and if I can take tamox with epistane? If I should not take it on cycle, do you recommend to take it along with an all-in one post cycle? What doses of tamox for PCT and duration?

I know there are a ton of threads on this. Wanted to start my own for specific help to my cycle. I have read great things from people on this site, so please do not just reference me to a previous thread. If you don't want to respond then don't.

First off you won't get gyno while taking Epi as Epi blocks estrogen at its receptor site. As stated by others rebound gyno is the issue so once you discontinue Epi there is a chance you can get gyno. Gyno symptoms start with itchy, sensitive and puffy nips followed by a small lump if not treated on its early stages. Also don't **** around with the all in one pct ****. Get erase DAA and a serm ( which you already have )

 

[FranARG]

Prolactin gyno CAN happen on cycle, Luke.

 

[Matthersby]

I'm not as experienced as some members, but the more I learn of the endocrine system, the more I realize there are almost no 'certainties' when we attempt to manipulate it. There's way too many variables.
No matter what I run:
Aromasin on hand
Caber/Prami on hand
Torem on hand

 

[FranARG]

^^^ Good piece of advice

 

[Matthersby]

Those are just my 3 favs for a few reasons but simply put:
- An AI
- PRolactin control
- A SERM

 

[Lukef2000]

Prolactin gyno CAN happen on cycle, Luke.

I'm well aware of that if you run compounds which raise prolactin levels which to my knowledge epistane does not. Have you ever heard of anyone run caber / prami for Epi? Gyno from Epi is usually caused once it's discontinued and no longer blocking the estrogen receptor. If you have solid evidence that epistane raises prolactin levels please enlighten me.

 

[FranARG]

I'm well aware of that if you run compounds which raise prolactin levels which to my knowledge epistane does not. Have you ever heard of anyone run caber / prami for Epi? Gyno from Epi is usually caused once it's discontinued and no longer blocking the estrogen receptor. If you have solid evidence that epistane raises prolactin levels please enlighten me.

I have my own case as evidence. I run an Epi solo Cycle, and had to take caber ON CYCLE because my nipples were sore and leaky. Caber solved it.
Then again, while on PCT, I had the same exact problem, and Caber once again did the job.

 

[Lukef2000]

I have my own case as evidence. I run an Epi solo Cycle, and had to take caber ON CYCLE because my nipples were sore and leaky. Caber solved it.
Then again, while on PCT, I had the same exact problem, and Caber once again did the job.

Hardly solid evidence. Anecdotal at best. Epi has been known in some cases to reduce gyno symptoms. What do you attribute the lactating nips in pct to then? What was elevating prolactin in pct?

 

[Lukef2000]

Give me a study that actually states facts not this on well it happened to me so it must be true ****. Not enough fact on this board lately and the facts that are thrown around are always by the same select people.

 

[FranARG]

Give me a study that actually states facts not this on well it happened to me so it must be true ****. Not enough fact on this board lately and the facts that are thrown around are always by the same select people.

Dude, I dont have to give you s h i t. I just said thay on cycle gyno CAN happen, because it happened to me, and that is a fact. If you dont believe me, fine, could not care less. I just mentioned my experience to warn the OP.

Besides, the fact that I had also leaky nipples on PCT does not make any less true the fact that I DID have leaky nipples ON CYCLE.

 

[maybe0123]

On my epi cycle I got leaky flaucet nips too I think it was around week 2 of pct when I noticed

 

[kaikara]

Man, you guys got it bad. I was three weeks into an epi cycle a year ago and had a motorcycle accident. In the hospital for a week, jaw wired shut for 8 weeks, so I had no pct of any kind. I recovered eventually and am back bigger than ever right now. No nipple issues at all.

I just finished a 7 week cycle of epi and started pct today with nothing to note. My nipples are dry and tight.

 

[FranARG]

Man, you guys got it bad. I was three weeks into an epi cycle a year ago and had a motorcycle accident. In the hospital for a week, jaw wired shut for 8 weeks, so I had no pct of any kind. I recovered eventually and am back bigger than ever right now. No nipple issues at all.

I just finished a 7 week cycle of epi and started pct today with nothing to note. My nipples are dry and tight.

That is great! You had a good run, but it is not the same for everyone. So it is good to warn other less experienced of the possible side effects. I am not saying that because I had my lealy nipps problem, everyone will. But, it a possible scenario to be considered.

 

[Lukef2000]

Dude, I dont have to give you s h i t. I just said thay on cycle gyno CAN happen, because it happened to me, and that is a fact. If you dont believe me, fine, could not care less. I just mentioned my experience to warn the OP.

Besides, the fact that I had also leaky nipples on PCT does not make any less true the fact that I DID have leaky nipples ON CYCLE.

It's because you don't have ****. No bloodwork to back up your claims so you have NO idea what was happening inside your body. No studies to show, so you don't actually know F*CK all. Epi doesn't elevate prolactin levels, 19nor compounds like tren or deca do. Why do you think Epi is a good beginning PH?

 

[FranARG]

It's because you don't have ****. No bloodwork to back up your claims so you have NO idea what was happening inside your body. No studies to show, so you don't actually know F*CK all. Epi doesn't elevate prolactin levels, 19nor compounds like tren or deca do. Why do you think Epi is a good beginning PH?

Haha OK, dude. My body just went fu cking haywire, got leaky nipples, then took Caber, that suppresses prolactin, everything went normal again, BUT IT WAS NOT BECAUSE OF EPI.
Next time I will get bloods and email them to you.


Or maybe not.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I'm well aware of that if you run compounds which raise prolactin levels which to my knowledge epistane does not. Have you ever heard of anyone run caber / prami for Epi? Gyno from Epi is usually caused once it's discontinued and no longer blocking the estrogen receptor. If you have solid evidence that epistane raises prolactin levels please enlighten me.

I agree 100%....there is no evidence epi raises prolactin ...and it's a DHT derivative so its an estrogen antagonist if its anything. Rebound gyno ok maybe.

 

[FranARG]

So please, explain why the hell I got leaky sore nipples on an epi solo cycle?
No prior history of PHs or AAS in my entire life.
And then, with Caber, BAM, trouble gone.

I am seriously asking, not just joking around.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

So please, explain why the hell I got leaky sore nipples on an epi solo cycle?
No prior history of PHs or AAS in my entire life.

I am seriously asking, not just joking around.

Not sure man...i believe it happened...but i cannot believe the epi caused it. unless the epi set off some other processes in your particular case. sometimes strange random things happen to people. epi just looking at its chemical makeup should help to clear up gyno if anything.

 

[FranARG]

Not sure man...i believe it happened...but i cannot believe the epi caused it. unless the epi set off some other processes in your particular case. sometimes strange random things happen to people. epi just looking at its chemical makeup should help to clear up gyno if anything.

I know it should do that, but it was the other way around haha. I never had gyno or pubertal gyno even, and Epi gave gyno flares. So, just to be safe, I think it is good to tell people that this may be a possible, not likely perhaps, side effect.
Only thing I think of, is that what I believe was Epi (RPN HAVOC) was actually some other compund, but I do not think that was the case.

 

[macdady]

I know it should do that, but it was the other way around haha. I never had gyno or pubertal gyno even, and Epi gave gyno flares. So, just to be safe, I think it is good to tell people that this may be a possible, not likely perhaps, side effect.
Only thing I think of, is that what I believe was Epi (RPN HAVOC) was actually some other compund, but I do not think that was the case.

High prolactine levels do not cause gyno so stop saying gyno lol

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I know it should do that, but it was the other way around haha. I never had gyno or pubertal gyno even, and Epi gave gyno flares. So, just to be safe, I think it is good to tell people that this may be a possible, not likely perhaps, side effect.
Only thing I think of, is that what I believe was Epi (RPN HAVOC) was actually some other compund, but I do not think that was the case.

I believe it would be a super rare case....like one in a million (ok maybe not a million but...)...so i don't see it warranting a warning really...but it's good to have prolactin and estrogen control on hand anyways sooooooo......

 

[rphash49]

I believe it would be a super rare case....like one in a million (ok maybe not a million but...)...so i don't see it warranting a warning really...but it's good to have prolactin and estrogen control on hand anyways sooooooo......

I learned from the movie "meet the fulkers" that you can milk anything that has nipples soooooo.....

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I learned from the movie "meet the fulkers" that you can milk anything that has nipples soooooo.....

I'm watching you. *points both fingers to eyes then points to Rphash*

 

[drewsicle3210]

I have my own case as evidence. I run an Epi solo Cycle, and had to take caber ON CYCLE because my nipples were sore and leaky. Caber solved it.
Then again, while on PCT, I had the same exact problem, and Caber once again did the job.

Did you get labs to show elevated prolactin?

 

[drewsicle3210]

Nevermind^^^
Just read through

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Nevermind^^^
Just read through

Yeah ....welcome to hell lol j/k Fran.

 

[lancevug]

I have my own case as evidence. I run an Epi solo Cycle, and had to take caber ON CYCLE because my nipples were sore and leaky. Caber solved it.
Then again, while on PCT, I had the same exact problem, and Caber once again did the job.

FranARG, that was the exact issue I was worried about. You took Caber and got it solved, would Nolva do the same thing? A friend of mine told me that Nolva always was his go to when he had nipple soreness on cycle. So I do have nolva on hand and ready in case I need it.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

FranARG, that was the exact issue I was worried about. You took Caber and got it solved, would Nolva do the same thing? A friend of mine told me that Nolva always was his go to when he had nipple soreness on cycle. So I do have nolva on hand and ready in case I need it.

Caber for prolactin induced
Nolva for estrogen induced

You gotta figure out which problem you have and go from there. No way it's estrogen if you're on epi though , other than post cycle rebound

 

[drewsicle3210]

I started researching this issue these last couple of hours, I can't find anything relevant on Epi causing Prolactin issues

 

[FranARG]

I can only tell you that I had this issue, and Caber solved it, so my educated guess is that prolactin was causing it. If it is possible, impossible or very unlikely, I cant tell. I just can tell you this was my experience.

 

[Lukef2000]

I can only tell you that I had this issue, and Caber solved it, so my very uneducated guess is that prolactin was causing it. If it is possible, impossible or very unlikely, I cant tell. I just can tell you this was my experience.

^^^ there you go I fixed your post for you.

 

[FranARG]

^^^ there you go I fixed your post for you.

Please, shed some light into my ignorance...???

 

[LordNeckbeard]

C'mon bros. Give it a rest.