19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione - cycle info and pct?

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    19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione - cycle info and pct?


    this is my first cycle ever
    product i use : ironlabs tren-e (19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione - 30mg each caps)

    week 1 : 90mg/day
    week 2 : 90mg/day
    week 3 : 90mg/day
    week 4 : 90mg/day
    week 5 : 90mg/day

    cycle assist : nutrimax liver care

    pct : clomid
    week 1-2 : 100mg/day
    week 3-4 50mg/day

    what's your opinion guys? is this okay?
    1. is the cycle good enough to produce muslce mass and strength?
    2. is the pct good enough to amply the test production?
    for your info, all item is on hands


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    You could make the cycle 6 weeks, and bump the dose up to around 120-150mgs if/when you feel like you need it.

    For PCT, you can add D Aspartic Acid at 3g every day as well as PES Erase, starting at 3 caps every day and tapering down thought the PCT if you're worried about really kick starting test production back up.

    You'll probably want something on hand for prolactin issues, such as Caber, but I really don't know enough about Tren to make much of a suggestion there.

    If you eat, sleep, and train right, you should see solid gains.

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    no, no you shouldn't bump the dosage up that high.

    you are running pro dienolone for your first cycle. This is a pretty potent compound for someone to run their first time. I would even say you should expect to get gyno from running this compound.

    It shuts you down hard. just about all the side effects of steroids you've heard of, most likely will happen with this compound.

    on the plus side, it'll get you super lean, and strong as hell.

    They made this compound illegal back in 2010. I had a chance to run it twice before it was banned. first time, I ran it solo, and it flared up my nipples fast, but also cut me up just as quick.

    the second time, I ran it with stanozolol thp ether (pstanz, now also banned) and saw no sides from the compound.

    so, if you can find stanozolol thp ether (3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol) (de methylated winstrol) I would def recommend getting two bottles, and run the stanz thp ether at 300-600mg e/d. (so 2-3 bottles)

    or even better, buy some winstrol and run it at 50mg e/d.

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    I would grab some letro to have on hand, as well as to also run during pct.

    pct assist by competitive edge labs, and a bottle of ur-spray from prototype nutrition

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    no, no you shouldn't bump the dosage up that high.

    you are running pro dienolone for your first cycle.
    Whoops... Somehow missed the first cycle thing... So never mind, don't bump the dose up at all.

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    Is this really a great compound for cutting fat? Will it add muscular size or just strength and fat loss are its primary benefits?

    The gyno from this is prolactin related and not E related correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I would grab some letro to have on hand, as well as to also run during pct.

    pct assist by competitive edge labs, and a bottle of ur-spray from prototype nutrition
    Are you telling him to run letro in pct?

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    Listen to jbryand101b on this one, the old x-tren or pro dienolone so to speak was a mean hormone I made the mistake of running that as my first ph after years away from things and had a horrible time with that cycle and pct....I did not do any research it was a huge mistake on my part. Start with something mild for a first cycle something that you can just learn from and will have mild consequences if you do **** it up. Like Furuza-a, 11oxo, 11kt, stanodrol.... think of it as your first course in a major your starting in college you do not jump into the hardest course before you have a basic understanding of the program right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by druller655321 View Post

    Are you telling him to run letro in pct?
    Yes, unless he wants to increase his chances of having bich tits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    Is this really a great compound for cutting fat? Will it add muscular size or just strength and fat loss are its primary benefits?

    The gyno from this is prolactin related and not E related correct?
    No, gyno is from a combination of things, with estrogen being the main culprit.

    This compound doesn't aromatize. But that doesn't mean your body won't sense the imbalance of androgens to estrogens, and kick up production of estrogens and other hormones in a attempt to balance out.

    I would not recommend running this compound without using pstanz, or winstrol along side it.

    Not only will this help to prevent progestin side effects, but will add to the cycle.

    This is an advanced compound, that "bringz dem gainz" but especially true with pro dienolone (dienedione), more gains, more sides.

    Am I trying to scare you? Yes. For good reason.
    And I don't often jump into a thread and start being serious right off the bat. So this hopefully means something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ture View Post
    this is my first cycle ever

    pct : clomid
    week 1-2 : 100mg/day
    week 3-4 50mg/day

    1. is the cycle good enough to produce muslce mass and strength?
    2. is the pct good enough to amply the test production?
    for your info, all item is on hands
    Pct:

    Letro: .5ml, or 1/2 a tablet weeks 1-3
    Clomid: 50mg e/d weeks 1-4
    Pct assist: 4 caps e/d weeks 1-4
    Ur-spray: 40-50 sprays e/d week 1-4
    After 4 weeks, this pct will have you right as rain.
    Yes, I personally would have more, but I get a sense, your trying to save $$$ on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    Yes, unless he wants to increase his chances of having bich tits.
    But if he shows no gyno signs. Wouldn't letro through pct increase his chances of estro rebound gyno?

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    Quote Originally Posted by druller655321 View Post

    But if he shows no gyno signs. Wouldn't letro through pct increase his chances of estro rebound gyno?
    Nope

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Pct:

    Letro: .5ml, or 1/2 a tablet weeks 1-3
    Clomid: 50mg e/d weeks 1-4
    Pct assist: 4 caps e/d weeks 1-4
    Ur-spray: 40-50 sprays e/d week 1-4
    After 4 weeks, this pct will have you right as rain.
    Yes, I personally would have more, but I get a sense, your trying to save $$$ on this.
    my nearby store sell letrozole 2.5mg*10tabs
    so i need to consume half of tabs every day on pct?
    am i need to consume them in cycle?
    anyway thankyou so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by ture View Post

    my nearby store sell letrozole 2.5mg*10tabs
    so i need to consume half of tabs every day on pct?
    am i need to consume them in cycle?
    anyway thankyou so much
    Wow where do you live? Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Wow where do you live? Lol
    south east asia

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    no need for on cycle, and you should be able to get some winstrol also.

    run only 3 weeks of pct, week 4 of pct will be clomid solo, this will take care of estrogen rebound, and give you time to level out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    no, no you shouldn't bump the dosage up that high.

    you are running pro dienolone for your first cycle. This is a pretty potent compound for someone to run their first time. I would even say you should expect to get gyno from running this compound.

    It shuts you down hard. just about all the side effects of steroids you've heard of, most likely will happen with this compound.

    on the plus side, it'll get you super lean, and strong as hell.

    They made this compound illegal back in 2010. I had a chance to run it twice before it was banned. first time, I ran it solo, and it flared up my nipples fast, but also cut me up just as quick.

    the second time, I ran it with stanozolol thp ether (pstanz, now also banned) and saw no sides from the compound.

    so, if you can find stanozolol thp ether (3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17beta-tetrahydropyranol) (de methylated winstrol) I would def recommend getting two bottles, and run the stanz thp ether at 300-600mg e/d. (so 2-3 bottles.
    i can't find stanozolol thp ether here, is stanozolol (17-methyl-2'H -5α-androst-2eno[3,2-c]pyrazol-17β-ol) is okay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ture View Post
    i can't find stanozolol thp ether here, is stanozolol (17-methyl-2'H -5α-androst-2eno[3,2-c]pyrazol-17β-ol) is okay?
    That is winstrol so yes it should work fine.
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    You could always try EPG Arime PCT Stage 5 "oncycle" It has 5mg Epi and some other good stuff in it for the 19nor sides... I would rather take 100-200mg T-Cyp with any deca style PH, but then again you said its yo 1st cycle... Have some nolvadex on hand also... Stano that has already been stated above works very good, but Epi is a good oncycle anti estrogen...

    If I was you, I would just do a little 4-5 week 30mg Epi cycle 1st and learn what pct works best for YOUR body b4 going apesh!t with multiple compounds... That's just my 2 cents worth... Get some ALA/B6 also.....

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    Epi isn't a anti estrogen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Epi isn't a anti estrogen.
    2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-adrostan

    Trade names include Havoc/Epistane
    Common Dosages: 30mg to 40mg daily
    Common Cycle Length: 4-5 Weeks
    Methylated: Yes
    Half-Life: Average (6-8 hours)

    A designer steroid and legal alternative to anabolic and androgenic steroids.

    Epistane is a methylated version of the controlled substance Epitiostanol (2,3-Epithio-5-androstan-17-ol), created in the 1960's and used as a treatment for breast cancer. Chemists added a methyl group to the compound to create the product known as Epistane. Epistane is a sulfur containing steroid which is known to have strong and long lasting anti-estrogenic activity as well as weak androgenic and mytropic activities.

    Since it is anti-estrogenic, you can expect very dry gains from this compound. Epistane has low androgenic to anabolic activity, meaning it is much more anabolic then androgenic. Even though users will see dry gains on Epistane it does not mean that it would be any insufficient for a bulking cycle.

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    that is wrong. where did you get that? pro hormone data base or some other silly website?

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    if methepitheostanol does have any anti estrogenic properties, they aren't any different than dht or it's derivatives.


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    "if methepitheostanol does have any anti estrogenic properties, they aren't any different than dht or it's derivatives."


    Yup, and I already stated that stano would work in my 1st post, but Epi is stronger than Stano in my opinion... 19nor PH's turns off someones endocrine like a light switch, and that is why I didn't recommend it for anyone's 1st PH cycle..... I use Epi and Stano when using ANY 19nor product and have allllllllllllllllllll PCT's on hand b4 starting a cycle...

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    dht androgenic/anabolic ratio: 268/152

    epistane androgenic/anabolic ratio: 91/1100

    as you can see, the two are completely different.

    I understand you're trying to help with you're input. but it is incorrect to think/believe that epistane has any anti estrogenic activity. it is completely different drug than it's non methylated analog.

    yes, back in the day, spawn, (pro dienolone & epistane) was a popular stack, and so was receiving a case of gyno from said stack.

    stano as of right now, is probably the best otc stacking option with dienedione, but if one were to have access to furazabol thp ether, I'd say that would be a better option.

    but op has access to winstrol, which is the best stacking option with any 19nor androgen.

    lastly, you don't have pct's, it should be just one post cycle therapy plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    dht androgenic/anabolic ratio: 268/152

    epistane androgenic/anabolic ratio: 91/1100

    as you can see, the two are completely different.

    I understand you're trying to help with you're input. but it is incorrect to think/believe that epistane has any anti estrogenic activity. it is completely different drug than it's non methylated analog.

    yes, back in the day, spawn, (pro dienolone & epistane) was a popular stack, and so was receiving a case of gyno from said stack.

    stano as of right now, is probably the best otc stacking option with dienedione, but if one were to have access to furazabol thp ether, I'd say that would be a better option.

    but op has access to winstrol, which is the best stacking option with any 19nor androgen.

    lastly, you don't have pct's, it should be just one post cycle therapy plan.
    Ture, more/stronger is NOT always better... Like I already stated, do a small dose epi cycle b4 jumping in the deep end... Jbry101 whatever didn't tell you that your hair will fall out with winstrol did he, its damn near strait DHT!!!!!!!!... The first thing the you need to do is get your blood work first b4 starting any PH cycle... Did you see how "weak" the Epi 91/1100 sounds... Now do some of the weak Epi and you will be impressed with the results! Im done posting on this thread... Good luck.

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    o_0 DHT will only cause shedding for people predisposed to MPB... So no just no this thread is killing me. I'm not sure how new you are but... yeah there are very few people who compare in knowledge to jbryand on this board at least when it comes to hormones. Hell the only reason I qualify that is that I don't think I have ever seen him make a serious post about anything else.
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    How would your thoughts of running this change if a guy were on TRT of Test and an Adex? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by justmechillin View Post
    Ture, more/stronger is NOT always better... Like I already stated, do a small dose epi cycle b4 jumping in the deep end... Jbry101 whatever didn't tell you that your hair will fall out with winstrol did he, its damn near strait DHT!!!!!!!!... The first thing the you need to do is get your blood work first b4 starting any PH cycle... Did you see how "weak" the Epi 91/1100 sounds... Now do some of the weak Epi and you will be impressed with the results! Im done posting on this thread... Good luck.
    "it's damn near str8 dht" but you are recommending stano, which is a pro hormone to dht.

    if you knew about compounds, you wouldn't think the numbers for epi were weak, when they are actually some of the highest (on paper).

    if epi performed like it looks in vida, users would be blown away, as the numbers make it appear ALOT stronger than superdrol. but, we all know that isn't the case.

    is epi a better first time compound than dienedione? hell yes it is. but it's what he has what he has.

    If he wants to hold off and try to find some compounds where he's at, that up to him. I'm betting it isn't easy, and also more expensive than traditional aas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireRescue View Post
    How would your thoughts of running this change if a guy were on TRT of Test and an Adex? Thanks
    I would still recommend using winni with dienedione. and possibly dropping the ai (on cycle) but keeping it on hand in case.

    test is best because it goes with everything.

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    ah, the days of tren....


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    received my bottle of oral winstrol

    then i will start the dienedione 90mg + winstrol 50mg for 5weeks

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    I would still recommend using winni with dienedione. and possibly dropping the ai (on cycle) but keeping it on hand in case.
    Why would you suggest dropping the AI on cycle.

    And while I have read this whole thread I was under the impression that winny lowers SHBG and I am unsure of the other mechanism of winny and as to why it would be best in this situation.

    Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

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    winni has been shown to bind with the progestin receptors ( a trait all androgens share d/t their structure similarities) but have no interaction with it, in a sense, blocking it.
    This as far as I can tell, seems to be one of the reasons users get so dry and hard on this compound. being that it'd be two non aromatizing compounds, there would be a chance of having elevated estrogen thinking about it again.

    but im not sure if the winny and pro dien would dry you out so much, that you might want a bit of wetness? it'd be one of those situations you'd have to know your bodys symptoms of too much e, and play it by ear. If you feel you need to use a light dose, then go for it, if not, all the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    winni has been shown to bind with the progestin receptors ( a trait all androgens share d/t their structure similarities) but have no interaction with it, in a sense, blocking it.
    This as far as I can tell, seems to be one of the reasons users get so dry and hard on this compound. being that it'd be two non aromatizing compounds, there would be a chance of having elevated estrogen thinking about it again.

    but im not sure if the winny and pro dien would dry you out so much, that you might want a bit of wetness? it'd be one of those situations you'd have to know your bodys symptoms of too much e, and play it by ear. If you feel you need to use a light dose, then go for it, if not, all the better.
    Hey jbry you say running tren would probably cause gyno i second you on this from most logs however you say running winstrol or pstanz with it would help stop gyno so ..

    What if you ran epi and tren combo would that be good and stop sides ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gym4Life View Post

    Hey jbry you say running tren would probably cause gyno i second you on this from most logs however you say running winstrol or pstanz with it would help stop gyno so ..

    What if you ran epi and tren combo would that be good and stop sides ??
    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    yes, back in the day, spawn, (pro dienolone & epistane) was a popular stack, and so was receiving a case of gyno from said stack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    I take that answer as a no then that still surprises me as epistane and winstrol are so similar in effects ...

    Plus the only winstrol i can get hold off is underground labs so i prefer epistane for purity ... I think i will leave the tren out as gyno scares me lol thanks for your views though jbry

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