Are Steroids close to being socially accepted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris223 View Post

    A .240 hitter who goes on juice will still be a .240 hitter. A linebacker who can't tackle and goes on juice will run faster and hit harder, but he still can't tackle. Steroids won't help you catch the ball or shoot a jumper or pot a goal on a breakaway. And then there's still the question of why the OP considers usage of hormones to be justified in bodybuilding.
    Who's to say that .240 hitter could only put a ball out 410ft on a prefect pitch/hit off juice. Then said hitter goes on and can put them out 450+ in the perfect scenario. He still hits like **** but when he does he knocks it the **** out of the park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Speed View Post
    Who was that Canadian Olympic sprinter that set the world record 100m that got caught? He came back a few years later and was slower. That was kind of the worlds acknowledgement to them making a person stronger and faster.

    And talk about socially unaccepted at the time but Canada also banned him..
    Carl Lewis, the man Ben Johnson supposedly "robbed", tested positive for amphetamines in the same games and I believe the same event. No one cared. No one remembers.

    No one is debating that they make you stronger and faster. The question is why you and others consider that to be unacceptable. As you said, a user still has to be in the work. And the successful users usually outwork just about everyone, because steroids enable them to do so.

    And just because the world at large labeled Ben Johnson as a cheater doesn't mean that he is, nor does it affirm your idea that steroid use in sport is cheating. The world has not thought critically about this subject. It has made snap judgments based on emotion and preconceived notions, as it often does.
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    Its cheating when the rules in the sport say so. Tell me what pro sports don't have rules against PEDs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Speed View Post
    The way I see it is. It is your body, your temple. No man has the right to dictate what you do with it. If you wanna run 150mg of tren a day so be it. When you go into a coma and **** don't blame the roids, blame yourself for being an idiot.

    That is your Liberty. Something that has been forgotten in this country of rules and regulation.
    This thinking is too narrow, but that's a different discussion.
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    If your pursuit to life, liberty and happiness is to do large amounts of steroids, or alcohol, or pain killers then so be it.

    What's narrow about that?

    The fact you may effect a family member per say? As long as its not physical or jeopardizing the life of your child or your ability to care for said child its your right. Now you cross that line and there's things in place to punish you. Which is acceptable under our constitutional republic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Speed View Post
    Its cheating when the rules in the sport say so. Tell me what pro sports don't have rules against PEDs.
    This is correct. But why do the rules disallow them? Simply because of the advantage they offer? Cyclists don't ride bikes with old-fashioned, heavy steel frames. They ride bikes built from the newest, lightest alloys and composite materials that offer the most ideal strength-to-weight ratio for their pursuit. If Bob beats Bill in the Tour de Hillbilly, but Bob's bike is lighter, did Bob cheat? If you apply the logic that is used to keep steroids out of sport, then yes, Bob cheated and a level playing field is only maintained when everyone uses the same equipment and the same training regimens and eat the same food and go to sleep at the time and et cetera et cetera. Only then does pure genetic ability win out. Although we still haven't talked about the psychological aspects of sports and how mental toughness and that innate "winner's attitude" factor in. How about athletes that utilize sports psychologists to achieve that winner's mentality or to get past emotional blocks that prevent them from fully tapping their abilities? They're trying to overcome genetic deficiency, just like the steroid user. Are they cheating?

    You just made the point that we should be allowed to do as we please with our bodies; why does that thinking not extend to sport? Why not allow EVERYTHING, and say Okay, it's up to you, the competitor, to choose what you are and aren't willing to do in order to compete at the highest level. And for those athletes who fear steroids and the misguided masses who abhor them, drug-free leagues would pop up for all sports. But the example provided by bodybuilding has already showed us how those drug-free leagues would fare.

    Speaking of which, you still haven't explained why you feel that steroids in bodybuilding are justified and should be allowed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac Speed View Post
    If your pursuit to life, liberty and happiness is to do large amounts of steroids, or alcohol, or pain killers then so be it.

    What's narrow about that?

    The fact you may effect a family member per say? As long as its not physical or jeopardizing the life of your child or your ability to care for said child its your right. Now you cross that line and there's things in place to punish you. Which is acceptable under our constitutional republic.
    Well, since you started the conversation...

    The pursuits you list not only make you a danger to others but to your own health. And when one wrecks his health in such a manner, the general public picks up the tab, either because the individual expects his insurance to pay for treating his self-inflicted wounds, which raises all of our healthcare costs, or because said individual has no insurance, and the hospital system increase costs to help offset their losses, which increases costs to insurers, who pass that cost on to the consumer. This is perhaps best illustrated by the backlash created by New York mayor Michael Bloomberg's recent crusade against massive-sized sodas. The same fat ****s who have gathered to battle against his efforts to protect them and their children from themselves will expect the rest of us to pay for the care that they will receive for their type II adult-onset diabetes and the host of other serious and expensive ailments that will come with it. Liberty does not endow the right to complete recklessness and irresponsibility; a society has a responsibility to itself, and its members to each other.

    And how about those who fear no consequence? We see this in the mass shootings that happen with ever greater frequency in the US. The perpetrators of these crimes often commence their acts ready and willing to die. They fear no reprisal, and when the threat of punishment is not enough to deter one from thoughts of mass murder, mass murder will occur. And yet, still we fight not just for the right to bear firearms, but for completely unfettered access to them, even when such availability ensures that they will end up in the hands of those who should not possess them. I say this not to initiate a debate on gun control, but to illustrate the point that the threat of punishment is not enough to protect those in a society who exists peaceably and responsibly.

    These are the reasons I say your thinking is too narrow. You haven't thought deep enough on such topics.
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    I often wonder if I'm the only one that thinks that all pro sports should require their players to take PEDs? lol. I mean if your supposed to strive to be the best and destroy everyone then why not use them?
    Why not zoidberg?
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    I feel like people still associate steroids use with "roid rage" and cheating in sports. But I wish people would see it's much more than that for the rest of us. We can just blame the media.
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    I think these laws against steroids are against our own constitution. Any overdosed substance can cause damage.
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    It's all Ben Johnsons fault
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawks21 View Post
    I feel like people still associate steroids use with "roid rage" and cheating in sports. But I wish people would see it's much more than that for the rest of us. We can just blame the media.
    Lol they do cause increase in aggression. And with someone that's already got a nasty temper then "roid rage" can happen, so the violent outbursts associated with roids aren't cause specifically by them they really just amplify said persons temper. that's the way I see it any way
    Why not zoidberg?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Part of the reason they won't be accepted is due to RAMPANT irresponsible (and oftentimes dangerous) use by impatient and inexperienced trainees.

    We can all read studies that show PEDs can and are used safely, but those are countered by the endless stream of jackassery that comes with novice steroid use. All one has to do is spend 10 minutes perusing the Anabolics section to see what I'm talking about.

    Additionally, you won't hear stories about successful use. Guys that get blood panels before/during/after, practice responsible use and quietly grow aren't who we hear from. We hear from the idiots who think TRT is a legal cycle, idiots whose endocrine system is irreparably incapacitated from banging a gram of test/week for 6 months, idiots who beat the shyt out of someone in a fit of rage and blame "the juice".

    The negative connotations are, at this point (IMHO), insurmountable.
    Well said
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    Nope. Not gaining any traction in society...the only people that accept them are the people that use them, or date the people that use them, or actually understand their benefits...which is a small, small fraction of society.
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    I agree in the regard that personal use isn't and shouldn't be a concern of the government. A lot of guys I grew up with used with a lot of success. Everybody knew. Nobody ratted on them.

    It's laughable to think that PEDs can or should have a place in sports. The risk of litigation is far too high to give anything less than 100% *appearance* of testing and control.

    A .240 hitter doesn't stay a .240 hitter with the help of 'roids. Look @ Melky Cabrera - the guy was garbage in 2 cities and he ends up in SF leading the league in batting. There are a million examples as we all saw with Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, et all.

    That being said, lets not kid ourselves into believing Adrian Peterson didn't use HGH to recover from surgery and nearly beat the single-season rushing record. That was NFL-sanctioned. "Hey AP- do whatever you have to do to get back to the game. We don't test IR guys..." They wanted their star back & protected their investment.

    I'd love to see a league that sanctions guys to dose themselves into absolute monsters, but professional sports will always keep gear illegal to protect their own interests. And because the sports (that kids look up to) say they're against the rule the stigma will always exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthWalker View Post
    Nope. Not gaining any traction in society...the only people that accept them are the people that use them, or date the people that use them, or actually understand their benefits...which is a small, small fraction of society.
    I disagree. I feel that with the recent jump in men going on testosterone replacement therapy these last few years. That it's becoming more and more mainstream. And I believe that when the men and the women that are with them start to see the many benefits that trt gives, more men will go on trt, and society will slowly start to accept it .
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    I thought I would pop into this thread to see if anyone has brought it up yet.

    A rumour on the internet about one of the world's most famous fitness models being stripped of his title due to testing positive.

    Despite there being nothing conclusive to show it was steroid use (only speculation about it being anavar but I can't see any legitimate reason for this theory) it has caused quite a stir.

    https://www.facebook.com/bencarpente...36298529751735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinnyboombots View Post
    I disagree. I feel that with the recent jump in men going on testosterone replacement therapy these last few years. That it's becoming more and more mainstream. And I believe that when the men and the women that are with them start to see the many benefits that trt gives more men will go on trt, and society will slowly start to accept it .
    I definitely see your point, and I thought about that, but I don't think your average person goes to get trt because he knows its the same thing as steroids. I think we have to differentiate between the medical use of trt and recreational use of steroids. Is TRT gaining more public traction? Absolutely! But as far as the mainstream knows, it is used medicinally and not for recreational purposes. Maybe in the future public acceptance of TRT will translate into public acceptance of recreational steroid use, but I don't think that is happening now, or will happen in the near future.
  

  
 

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