Age 19 - heigh 6'1 weight 185`190

[Jrhoffman933]

Hey everyone im looking for some help i have been working out for about two years now off and on but i have been getting serious with weight lifting again i am looking for gains. Im 19 i have done one PH by phantom labs called Phorce it was good i gained about 15lb on the 4 week cycle i am looking to Tone and cut mostly i took a cycle assist and a pct with it .. I didnt know much about the ph when i took it but i did eat clean and drink alot of water and lift hard at the gym, im just looking for advice on what you guys think would help me im looking for a more serious supplement ill post pics later i was looking at other ph's.

Thanks for looking
-Jr

 

[juicer77]

As young as you are eat eat eat and finally eat

 

[smshannon001]

you probably wont get much help in the anabolics section since you are 19

maybe post your diet in the nutrition section and be completely honest

post your training in the training section and any programs or styles of training that you have tried or that have worked in the past

my advice to "tone" is 1. if you are happy with your "muscle mass" now then start a carb cycle and lean out a bit or 2. if you want more muscle then go on a lean bulk and add a few lbs and then cut up later

muscle and fat stores get bigger or smaller.. tone just means less body fat is hiding your muscle, so if you are looking to cut throw up your diet and training and then people will be more willing to help

 

[Jrhoffman933]

Thanks, Today i did bi's and shoulders I do with a 22.5 30 fireman curls superset with a alternating curl x10 for 3 sets, do 3x10 preacher of some sort either curlbar or dumbbell, then a 3x10 of regular bar curls or a 7x7x7 set,
then for shoulders i do arnolds with around 40's and do about 14 my first set 12 my next then 10 or untill i cant for my last set , then i do a shoulder fly of somesort for 3x10
Usually at the end of my work outs i run about a mile or a mile and a half but today i was pretty tired so i didnt do that but for the most part id like to think my diets pretty good for the most part i eat salads with cherry tomatoes , cottage cheese, and 1-2 chicken breasts with some fruit and 2-3 glasses of watter

 

[Jrhoffman933]

As young as you are eat eat eat and finally eat

Im not really looking to bulk though im looking to gain muscle but im happy with my size i would just like more definition but i dont want to loose alot of my mass

 

[smshannon001]

Thanks, Today i did bi's and shoulders I do with a 22.5 30 fireman curls superset with a alternating curl x10 for 3 sets, do 3x10 preacher of some sort either curlbar or dumbbell, then a 3x10 of regular bar curls or a 7x7x7 set,
then for shoulders i do arnolds with around 40's and do about 14 my first set 12 my next then 10 or untill i cant for my last set , then i do a shoulder fly of somesort for 3x10
Usually at the end of my work outs i run about a mile or a mile and a half but today i was pretty tired so i didnt do that but for the most part id like to think my diets pretty good for the most part i eat salads with cherry tomatoes , cottage cheese, and 1-2 chicken breasts with some fruit and 2-3 glasses of watter

where are your carb sources from?

arnolds are good but dont forget overhead barbell presses or dumbell presses (heavy)

maybe try 12-10-8-6 for your reps instead of starting your "working sets" at 14 reps, be sure to increase weight as reps decrease

 

[smshannon001]

also, since you want to maintain your mass while cutting the fat you should still be lifting heavy.

many people get into the habit of high reps/sets and lighter weight* to "cut up" but thats a sure fire way to lose strength quickly.

let you DIET decide if you are on a bulk or a cut.

if you can cut fat and keep up the intensity/load high in the gym then you will maintain strength at a lighter weight and when its time to bulk again you will see a large strength increase because you havent lost much strength during your cut!

*obviously on a caloric deficit energy levels will be lower and you might "feel" weaker, but dont consciously drop the weight thinking it will help you cut up

 

[chris223]

im just looking for advice on what you guys think would help me
-Jr

Well, here's advice to help you. You're too young for steroids (Phorce has dimethazine, and dimethazine is a steroid, not a prohormone). Even putting your age aside, you're not experienced enough for steroids. You say you've trained two years "off and on". Two years of solid training would make you an intermediate lifter, but this "off and on" bull**** (and way too many guys come here saying they've trained "off and on") makes you a beginner. Steroids are for advanced trainers who have made a lot of natural gains and are at or near their genetic limit. This takes a whole lot more than two years of "off and on" training. Steroids are also serious compounds that require serious consideration; if you aren't even serious about your training, how can you make the weighty decision to use steroids? Now, your training: It sucks. In the workout you described for us, you trained biceps before shoulders, which is folly for the most part. Advanced trainers have the knowledge and freedom to do this and make it work if it's right for them and their makeup and their state of development, but you're a beginner who's clearly just doing it because the biceps is the show muscle. Beginner trainers should always train the bigger, stronger body part first, and that body part in this instance is shoulders. Not only are you training biceps first, but you're training biceps with twice the volume and intensity of shoulders (by the way, you aren't supersetting curl movements; you're compound-setting them). The advice already given about emphasizing conventional forms of the shoulder press over Arnold presses is also sound; even the man the Arnold press is named for didn't build his shoulder training around the movement (he also trained his shoulders BEFORE his biceps in the same session). Your diet may or may not be good; the meal you cite is good, but it's only one meal. What do you eat the rest of the day? What's your typical protein intake? Carbs? Fat?

In conclusion, I advise you to learn how to train, then take that knowledge and put your nose to the grindstone in the gym. Commit to your training and eating the way you would commit to any other task that you truly wish to excel at. Then look into natural supplements, and in five or six years you can come back to anabolics, older and, hopefully, wiser.

 

[Veritatis]

NO- Stack Steaks w/ Veggies!

 

[OnionKnight]

chris223 beat me to it.

youre young, not experienced at all, and your routine sucks. i can tell you dont even track your workouts because of this "some sort" crap you kept mentioning. and those 15lbs you got were probly a mixture of water and fat beause of the lack of training/diet experience

 

[Jrhoffman933]

chris223 beat me to it.

youre young, not experienced at all, and your routine sucks. i can tell you dont even track your workouts because of this "some sort" crap you kept mentioning. and those 15lbs you got were probly a mixture of water and fat beause of the lack of training/diet experience

Nawh i just dont like doing the same stuff every work out so i do main lifts then usually chang up the smaller workouts to keep my muscles guessing not getting into muscle memory, and i know it wasnt 15 lb of muscle but thats not the point the point was that i made strenght gains while i was on it and i want to get back up to where i was before i was forced to not be able to work out for about 6 or 7 months so all the gains i made before just went down the drain , and no i dont track my work out im not the kind that brings his notebook into the gym..... and i know a pretty decent ammount about lifting/ nutrition i just dont know anything about anabolics/phs/exct

 

[Jrhoffman933]

Well, here's advice to help you. You're too young for steroids (Phorce has dimethazine, and dimethazine is a steroid, not a prohormone). Even putting your age aside, you're not experienced enough for steroids. You say you've trained two years "off and on". Two years of solid training would make you an intermediate lifter, but this "off and on" bull**** (and way too many guys come here saying they've trained "off and on") makes you a beginner. Steroids are for advanced trainers who have made a lot of natural gains and are at or near their genetic limit. This takes a whole lot more than two years of "off and on" training. Steroids are also serious compounds that require serious consideration; if you aren't even serious about your training, how can you make the weighty decision to use steroids? Now, your training: It sucks. In the workout you described for us, you trained biceps before shoulders, which is folly for the most part. Advanced trainers have the knowledge and freedom to do this and make it work if it's right for them and their makeup and their state of development, but you're a beginner who's clearly just doing it because the biceps is the show muscle. Beginner trainers should always train the bigger, stronger body part first, and that body part in this instance is shoulders. Not only are you training biceps first, but you're training biceps with twice the volume and intensity of shoulders (by the way, you aren't supersetting curl movements; you're compound-setting them). The advice already given about emphasizing conventional forms of the shoulder press over Arnold presses is also sound; even the man the Arnold press is named for didn't build his shoulder training around the movement (he also trained his shoulders BEFORE his biceps in the same session). Your diet may or may not be good; the meal you cite is good, but it's only one meal. What do you eat the rest of the day? What's your typical protein intake? Carbs? Fat?

In conclusion, I advise you to learn how to train, then take that knowledge and put your nose to the grindstone in the gym. Commit to your training and eating the way you would commit to any other task that you truly wish to excel at. Then look into natural supplements, and in five or six years you can come back to anabolics, older and, hopefully, wiser.

I know i am a beginner the only reason it hasnt been a solid work out was because i couldnt lift it was physically impossible for me to lift for 6 months , trust me if i could have been lifting i would have been before that i would spend hours in the gym making new friends talking about it and looking at how and what other people are doing and taking ..and about 95 of the people that are on phs/roids arent at the genetic limits or have not been training for years but got solid results and i understand that phs are horrible at this age but i want to do atleast one cycle of something to help get back to where i was use to fast so i can keep progressing, i am not looking for a steroid but i am looking for a supplement that will help me get back to or exceed my previous lifting weights and that will help me get the results i want, but for the most part that is my lunch and dinner occassionally ill mix it up and have chicken,brown rice, steamed broccoli
then for breakfasts i usually have an omlet or hardboiled eggs with fruit or i have oatmeal, and for the intake i dont keep track i just watch what i eat i stay away from starches try to eat greens and chicken and drink water ,

 

[Jrhoffman933]

also, since you want to maintain your mass while cutting the fat you should still be lifting heavy.

many people get into the habit of high reps/sets and lighter weight* to "cut up" but thats a sure fire way to lose strength quickly.

let you DIET decide if you are on a bulk or a cut.

if you can cut fat and keep up the intensity/load high in the gym then you will maintain strength at a lighter weight and when its time to bulk again you will see a large strength increase because you havent lost much strength during your cut!

*obviously on a caloric deficit energy levels will be lower and you might "feel" weaker, but dont consciously drop the weight thinking it will help you cut up

What do you think a good rep range would be for the heavy like 4-6? and also what do you recommend for cardio

 

[harbonah]

I would use FoodAdrol it will give you a lot of size gains at 19...

Sorry man your 19 you should not mess with a hormone at 19 let alone at 185lbs 6'1 its insane to think you need anything more then some clean eating to put on muscle.

 

[OnionKnight]

Nawh i just dont like doing the same stuff every work out so i do main lifts then usually chang up the smaller workouts to keep my muscles guessing not getting into muscle memory

you just proved my point

 

[Rodja]

Nawh i just dont like doing the same stuff every work out so i do main lifts then usually chang up the smaller workouts to keep my muscles guessing not getting into muscle memory, and i know it wasnt 15 lb of muscle but thats not the point the point was that i made strenght gains while i was on it and i want to get back up to where i was before i was forced to not be able to work out for about 6 or 7 months so all the gains i made before just went down the drain , and no i dont track my work out im not the kind that brings his notebook into the gym..... and i know a pretty decent ammount about lifting/ nutrition i just dont know anything about anabolics/phs/exct

If you knew a decent amount about training and nutrition, then you would first know that it is your nutrition that will make you lose bodyfat and that muscle confusion is not real. It sounds more like you're just an impatient kid that doesn't want to put in the time and dedication that is necessary and you're looking for shortcuts.

 

[OnionKnight]

no i dont track my work out im not the kind that brings his notebook into the gym.

dont need to bring your notebook to track a workout. a lot of us do it in our heads because all that really matters are the big compound lifts. there are also a billion phone apps designed for tracking workouts, gym rat and ifit come to mind for android or iphone users

do you count calories? cuz id bet you dont do that either. there are also a billion apps for that purpose. some as simple as scanning the barcode of the food and entering serving size. done

 

[Bigcountry08]

Nawh i just dont like doing the same stuff every work out so i do main lifts then usually chang up the smaller workouts to keep my muscles guessing not getting into muscle memory, and i know it wasnt 15 lb of muscle but thats not the point the point was that i made strenght gains while i was on it and i want to get back up to where i was before i was forced to not be able to work out for about 6 or 7 months so all the gains i made before just went down the drain , and no i dont track my work out im not the kind that brings his notebook into the gym..... and i know a pretty decent ammount about lifting/ nutrition i just dont know anything about anabolics/phs/exct

How long have you been in the gym since your 6-7 months off? If you were to be very strict with training and diet I guarantee you would be back up to the level you were within 3-4 months.

how much weight have you lost? You need to stop worrying so much about being "cut" and need to worry more about building muscle. Your avatar right now makes you look like a emaciated prisoner of war. Most of the over the counter steroids are going to put both muscle and water weight/fat on your body so your not going to be able to stay 100 percent lean anyways.

What pct did you use last time and what are you planning to take this time?

Why were you out of the gym for the past 6-7 months steroids put a lot of stress on the human body and should only be taken by very healthy individuals not only do steroids effect the liver, but they also effect blood pressure which puts a huge strain on your body.

What training program are you following, are you consistently going to the gym?

What are your macronutrient ratios? Are you pretty strict with hitting them every day?

Why do you want to take steroids? What are your long term goals? Are you willing to take the risk of getting gyno and growing breasts just for a few extra pounds of muscle? If your going for esthetics this might be a risk you don't want to take. Are you willing to risk losing your libido for upwards of several years, suffer from severe depression, lose all your gains just for 5-10# of muscle?

We're just trying to help you out, I know some of the guys have said some stuff that seems pretty dickish. But it's because guys like you post every week, then in 2-3 months we see another post where the guy is pleading with us to help them because there T levels are in the single digits and they feel like hell, lost all there gains and don't know what to do.

 

[smshannon001]

For strength gains 4-6 reps should be great... I did a 5x5 style routine on my compound movements when I was 19-20 and that helped with my strength (ESP after recovering from shoulder surgery)
I did keep assistant movements around 3 to 4 sets of 8 for some Hypertrophy as well
..
I know it can be a pain to log calories but with many sites (I use the USDA super tracker) you can log a few days and get an idea of your macronutrient intake
And if you eat the same thing every day then you only really need to use the tracker on days that are different!
..
And you don't have to log all your workouts but it can make you more efficient and take any guessing out of what weight to start with when you're beginning a new program ... I use jefit app on my phone and its nice cause I can see sets and reps from the previous weeks

***you mentioned muscle confusion and not letting your muscles adapt BUT for a muscle to adapt it has to grow which is what we want!

Don't change up the exercises so often...you need to Keep the compound movements

Maybe try a program in 4-6 week intervals or until results start tapering off

For example: do a PHAT (layne norton) program for 6 weeks... Then 5x5... Then west side barbell training...

You're young and can experiment with different styles of training to see what works well fir you and almost anything will be beneficial at your age/ hormone levels

Just get that diet dialed in if you're serious about making a change! The training will follow your diet