Cycle Help? Should I Add MDien or Mohn?

[Josey Wales]

I’m at the end of week 2 of a 6wk PH cutter and could use some help and advice before going further. (Apologies in advance for the long post).

Stats are:

Age: 42

Ht: 5'8"

Wt. 202

Bf% Was 16-18% earlier in the week (new to digi caliper so the readings are bouncing around right now) Fat is visibly coming down though.

I've been training for the better part of 20 years and had some experience with gear in my twenties. This is my first outing with PH's though.



Current PH cycle



4AD 500mg/day (transderm)

1,4AD was 400mg/day in wk 1 and have recently increased to 1000mg/day (not methyl) (mostly oral, but have some transderm to use up. will be all oral shortly)

4OHT 300mg/day (transderm)

Clen 120mcg (7/5/7)

T3 150mcg (7/5/7 with clen)

Nolva 20mcg/day throughout



Other daily supps



Milk Thistle

NAC

ALA-Acetyl-L-Carnitine

Selenium/chromium/zinc

Trace Mins

EFAs

Daily B-complex cap

B-12 1500mcg (methlycobalimin) and B-100 mg complex injections every other day.

Vit. C. 5gms

I take Propecia generally and will continue to do so on this cycle.




I'm not getting any real sides from the PH's now--at least not yet. I did have some bloating and headaches at first though. Nolva and 4OHT seemed to help with that though. Also, I don't get many sides from clen and t3 at the dosages noted above (I cycled up initially), except that it does interfere with my sleep a bit. But it's nothing a little Ambien won't cure. Still, I'm reluctant to up the doses any further, as the weight is coming off. Actually, I feel pretty good on clen/t3.


Doing cardio at 65%-70% max HR for 1 hour 5-6/days per week. Diet is very clean--only oatmeal, leafy greens, fats from EFA's and lean protein. I'm using ON whey for shakes. PWO shake includes 2:1 with dextrose. I'm eating 200+ gms protein/day now. And I'm very hungry on clen/T3. It feels like I'm eating egg whites and sliced chicken breast like M&M's.




As noted above, I plan to run this cycle for 6wks. After that, I'll run pct for 6+ weeks (Nolva/Clomid/Letro).


Questions:



1. Should I add Mdien or Mohn to this cycle in the last four weeks to really harden up? I've been less than 8% bf in the past and would like to get there again without flattening out too much (I realize t3 will claim some muscle). Also, I'm wondering if the additional anabolic, mild though MD and Mohn may be, will help counteract the withering effects of t3.



2. Is Mdien and/or Mohn hard on the hairline? How about this stack without MD and Mohn? I have some MPB, but Propecia seems to help. Not sure if it will stave off the effects of PH's though, particularly a stack. Thoughts?



3. Should I push my protein intake to 300+ gms a day?



4. What's your take on the clen/t3 7/5/7 protocol? Do you think it's better to run it this way or 2wks on/2wks off? There seems to be a big debate on this. I'd like to do the 2wk schedule, but I don't want to risk great harm.



5. Any other advice on this cycle? Any changes or additions?



6. Finally, anyone know where I can get the legal thyroid pct glandular, T-100x? I've seen some posts on it elsewhere, but the sites they mention do not seem to have it (old posts).



I know there are a lot of questions here. Sorry about that. Believe me, I have done a lot of research. But there’s so much info here and elsewhere, and a lot of it is conflicting. So any hemp or advice you could give (even if have time to comment or answer only part of a question) would be most appreciated. Thanks.

 

[ghostwriter]

Mdien and Mohn are a great stack. (we are close to the same age). And yes, up your protein.

I have heard mixed stories about Milk Thistle. From what I research and my own results, I would do Milk Thistle prior to the start of your cycle and after, but not during.

 

[Josey Wales]

Thanks to all who have replied thus far. Great stuff and much appreciated.
GW, I've read that too about Milk Thistle. I've been taking MT for years though. I love it. But if I correctly understand the theory regarding hormones and MT, it seems that MT cleans the liver so efficiently that it may lessen the effects or absorption of the exogenous hormones. Does that sound like what you've read? Still, a lot of what I'm using is transdermal. Am I correct in assuming that transderm apps allow much of the hormone to bypass the liver? Maybe that's just in the first pass? I'd be interested to hear if there's a consensus on this. Thanks again.

 

[ghostwriter]

understand the theory regarding hormones and MT, it seems that MT cleans the liver so efficiently that it may lessen the effects or absorption of the exogenous hormones. Does that sound like what you've read?

Exactly so. I do not know this for a fact, but I would still do this. It is but a 4-6 week period, and for that amount of time to take a chance on inhibiting PH results, it does not seem worth the chance in my opinion. Just start it immediately PCT.

Still, a lot of what I'm using is transdermal. Am I correct in assuming that transderm apps allow much of the hormone to bypass the liver? Maybe that's just in the first pass? I'd be interested to hear if there's a consensus on this. Thanks again.

I am in complete agreement with this.

 

[timogburn]

I have ran cycle while taking MT and cycles where I began taking MT directly afterwards. It seems i have gotten better gains when starting MT during PCT.

 

[BryanM]

Dont tell him that milk thistle interferes with gains!!!

Your liver produces enzymes in the blood that break down compounds into leeser harsh ones so the body can dispose of them. All milk thistle does is regenerate new liver cell growth!!!

How could milk thistle possibly interfere with gains?
Its not like the milk thistle is producing more liver enzymes to break the product down anymore! And besides Methylated compounds avoid the first liver pass anyway due to the 17aa stucture.

Elevated enzymes only become a problem when they reach too high a level and then actually start to break down liver cells damaging the liver. Milk thistle provides nutrients to help rebuild new growth and protect the actual cells from damage all it does it help the liver not make your liver stronger to break down substances more efficently.

M4ohn is not too toxic anyway from peoples blood work so you could in fact get away with taking it without too high of enzymes but its your body man why would you want to risk it? I mean even if it did interfere with gains(which is proposterous!) I would still take it and not gain an extra 3 pounds rather then risk going jaundice!

 

[ghostwriter]

Dont tell him that milk thistle interferes with gains!!!

No need to get excited, if you read the post it simply states that some things have been read about it. I personally avoid it "on cycle", 4 weeks is not long, and with a healthy functioning liver, starting MT immediately PCT is in my mind ok to insure my gains.

I have seen some studies, and could dig up some stuff, but don't feel the need. It is a choice.

 

[BryanM]

yeah I just like the three!!! over 1!
looks more pronounced

 

[Josey Wales]

These bulletin boards are awesome. I'm learning a lot. I'm getting too old to be bungling through this. Really appreciate the help. Thanks.