Oral only cycles vs prohormones

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    Oral only cycles vs prohormones


    Ok everyone I have one huge question. And it is not from lack of knowledge as I have done a lot of reading on many different anabolic compounds.

    First a little background about me. I'm 31 years old, 6'1'' and weigh 197lbs. I started working out to get bigger when I was approx 20 years old, back then I weighed around 135 lbs. So with that said I've made great gains in 11 years with only a great diet, and good heavy weights.

    Now the question. I don't understand why people are so against an oral only cycle. Whether it be winstrol, anavar or dianabol. They always say that these compounds should be ran with some sort of injectable test. Now what I don't get is why are prohormones ran as oral only cycles? Epistane and superdrol never use a test base, but isn't the goal pretty much the same thing? We use pct after prohormones just like steroids?

    I also understand that test is only going to make your cycle more effective and the results greater. So is it simply people just knocking oral only cycles because everyone else does?

    I would like to hear feedback from people with actual experience, not the people who think they know cuz their buddies tell then that's how it should be.

    Also does anyone have results of say an oral only cycle of anavar with results, compared to a test e and anavar cycle?

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    More hormones = greater anabolic environment, potentially greater gains. So adding test is a non-hepatoxic way to up the power of your cycle.

    Much more importantly, test at the right dosing makes us feel better; it can reduce or eliminate sides like lethargy and loss of libido while using other compounds. Test is the natural hormone; you'll feel better with some in you even if it's synthetically sourced (as your natty production virtually ceases in time while on cycle).

    Prohormones like Superdrol and Epi are actually directly active steroids requiring no conversion, just like Var and Dbol, etc. People ran Sdrol because it worked and you could buy it everywhere legally until recently; Dbol has been banned for a long time. 'Prohormones' and designer steroids are simply the supplement markets way of circumventing the law. People want steroids. Gov't bans all known anabolic steroids. Supp market introduces new orals as dietary supplements and people get to use legally until Johnny Law catches up and bans the new compounds. But all of these 'dietary supplements' are just oral steroids, and would work great in a cycle of test just like the banned ones we mentioned.

    If you can't/won't run test with your oral-only cycles (I don't for several reasons, and don't plan to in the near future) it can be beneficial to run something that converts to test or dht, like 4dhea, 5epidhea, Stano, etc. Will help a bit with energy/well-being. 4dhea would be great with Epi as epi has AI properties keeping the estrogen conversion down, and Stano is a fav to stack with Sdrol.

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    PH/DS orals are less suppressive than actual oral steroids in most users. This leading to the need for a test base to wave off unwanted sides with actual AAS and to get a better overall feeling during a cycle. No body wants to run orals only, feel like **** due to shutdown/ low libido etc and on top of all, not see as much mass gain as possible than if they would run test alongside the orals. So IMO it can be a waste running actual oral steroids without a test base. You will still see gains but, You have to weigh the gains vs sides/feeling on cycle. Curious for others to chime in, but this has been my exp. I personally still achieve good results from 5-8 week Ph/DS cycles with minimal sides so have no need to pin. Alt route includes 800mg stano on cycle pre workout. In 5-11 250 around 12% bf so my advice to you would be to run a few PH cycles before hoping into oral AAS or pinning test. Do as you choose, these are just opinions and suggestions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayinHeavy View Post
    PH/DS orals are less suppressive than actual oral steroids in most users. This leading to the need for a test base to wave off unwanted sides with actual AAS and to get a better overall feeling during a cycle. No body wants to run orals only, feel like **** due to shutdown/ low libido etc and on top of all, not see as much mass gain as possible than if they would run test alongside the orals. So IMO it can be a waste running actual oral steroids without a test base. You will still see gains but, You have to weigh the gains vs sides/feeling on cycle. Curious for others to chime in, but this has been my exp. I personally still achieve good results from 5-8 week Ph/DS cycles with minimal sides so have no need to pin. Alt route includes 800mg stano on cycle pre workout. In 5-11 250 around 12% bf so my advice to you would be to run a few PH cycles before hoping into oral AAS or pinning test. Do as you choose, these are just opinions and suggestions.
    The PH you all keep talking about are steroids,and are not at all milder than those steroids that are named by the law.
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    Nice replies guys, that's what I want is opinions feedback and chit chat. I love talking about this stuff and debating, I may never do aas but they are fascinating to me.

    On another thought about 3 years ago I used a supplement call double dragon SOS 500. It was pretty much a halo clone and if my research is right halo is just a "designer" version of turinabol.

    I had great results with this compound until the FDA banned it and they changed the formula, sigh. With tht being said would a cycle of turinabol only yield results? Now keep in mind I already get that test should be the base, but are designer steroids pretty much anabolic?
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    Thanks for all the great feedback so far guys. Here is my next question regarding prohormones to anabolics.

    I took a supplement about 3 year ago called double dragon SOS 500. It was pretty much a halo clone, I ran it for 6 weeks and saw great results. Now of my research is correct halo is pretty much a designer form of turinabol.

    So in theory could you run turinabol only a s yield gains? Again I understand test should be a base, I just like the feedback, thanks!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killler View Post
    The PH you all keep talking about are steroids,and are not at all milder than those steroids that are named by the law.
    This is your opinion correct? Because if I remember correctly you have never cycles yourself. Not attempting to start anything, but each person reacts differently which is why I stated these are my opinions. Yes there are legal active steroid compounds and PH that in turn just convert upon ingestion. But some are milder than others and some more suppressive as others. Someone taking SD is gonna exp different sides/ shutdown level than someone runnin halo. This leading to why I stated some are more harsh than others in terms of sides and shutdown. But you are correct, you are a fool if you think you are a natural lifter and have ran a PH/ designer cycle. <= not you, lifters in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    Nice replies guys, that's what I want is opinions feedback and chit chat. I love talking about this stuff and debating, I may never do aas but they are fascinating to me.

    On another thought about 3 years ago I used a supplement call double dragon SOS 500. It was pretty much a halo clone and if my research is right halo is just a "designer" version of turinabol.

    I had great results with this compound until the FDA banned it and they changed the formula, sigh. With tht being said would a cycle of turinabol only yield results? Now keep in mind I already get that test should be the base, but are designer steroids pretty much anabolic?
    Are you asking if designers are pretty much anabolic steroids? Or keep your body anabolic? Both are true either way. No matter how you cut it, PH/DS/AAS are all steroids. No matter how legal some are or the newly formulated chemical structures that make them legal for short times, they are steroids. Killer was right when he stated that about though some are milder than others. If you're looking for something to run, look into halo. Support supps and serm needed as well obviously. And like I stated above, stano can be used as a test base alternative to battle lethargy on cycle if your prone to being suppressed by these compounds. Some people are and some are not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    I don't understand why people are so against an oral only cycle.
    Me either
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    So try halo a prohormone instead of turinabol the anabolic steroid ? Just want to clarify because the chemical make up is very similar.

    Wouldn't I want to get the real deal? I have to use pct. either way right!?
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    id say the biggest reson is that if youre getting anadrol, dbol, winny, or var, you should also have access to test. and test is best.

    but if youre doing prohormone cycles, youre probly limited to legal stuff, in which case test isnt an option
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    id say the biggest reson is that if youre getting anadrol, dbol, winny, or var, you should also have access to test. and test is best.

    but if youre doing prohormone cycles, youre probly limited to legal stuff, in which case test isnt an option
    That is a very good point, I like that way better then people saying ur an idiot if u run oral only it makes me laugh half the people are just repeating things and have never done test themselves
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    id say the biggest reson is that if youre getting anadrol, dbol, winny, or var, you should also have access to test. and test is best.

    but if youre doing prohormone cycles, youre probly limited to legal stuff, in which case test isnt an option
    ^exactly. Some of us due to our careers/ personal obligations choose to not take the risk of acquiring actual steroids. Myself.... When I was active duty, I never considered attempting to pin. Transferred national guard after a few tours and enlistment was up and then gave it a thought. But now I'm a civilian cop and again, refuse to pin and take the risk. My career, income, wife and child out weigh the desire to pin due to the risks vs reward. So I stick to a cycle or two a year of whatever is currently "legal" and still see great gains. Without these obligations, I wouldn't hesitate to pin. As in all aspects IMO, it is the best route. As far as your first question, I don't believe oral cycles are a waste, they are just so much better with test from what I've followed along and researched. I've always wanted to pin but I probably never will.
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    Thanks stayingheavy, I appreciate ur 2 cents. I also agree, it is way easier to purchase the newest ph, but they also seem to be more expensive as well, test is pretty darn cheap for the bang u get.

    Anyone have any stats on a cycle of epistane that they have run? I hear good dry gains with this?

    Also I'm still waiting for a response regarding the turinabol vs halo argument, anybody with knowledge?
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    I found a ph that has 2 methylated compounds it it, one is the halodrol we talked bout the other is m1-4add. What are anyone's thoughts on this ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    That is a very good point, I like that way better then people saying ur an idiot if u run oral only it makes me laugh half the people are just repeating things and have never done test themselves
    I have done test and winny and trust me the test made me feel awesome and the winny made me feel like the hulk.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    I found a ph that has 2 methylated compounds it it, one is the halodrol we talked bout the other is m1-4add. What are anyone's thoughts on this ?
    I personally dont recommend any prestacked phs they normally have non-logical dosages and it is better to just make the cycle for yourself, and your goals.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Is it SupaHalo?

    Always thought that sounded interesting. Most definitely would run some Exemestane on cycle tho to keep gyno away; M14ADD is bad about that they say, and Dbol (it converts a bit to Dbol) most definitely does. Stack with Stano vs 4dhea since the M14add is already wet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post

    I personally dont recommend any prestacked phs they normally have non-logical dosages and it is better to just make the cycle for yourself, and your goals.
    So would a ph of just epistane be better then since I can control the actual dose ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    I found a ph that has 2 methylated compounds it it, one is the halodrol we talked bout the other is m1-4add. What are anyone's thoughts on this ?
    M14add is suppose to convert to dbol 15%,and should have some anabolic activity on its own also.
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    I guess the question is, What are your goals? Do u want to look like a "bodybuilder"? At your height, you'd have to be about 250 pounds with 8 percent bodyfat to look somewhat like a competitive bodybuilder. No oral cycle, whether D-Bol or any DS/PH, will ever get u there. So why bother? U may look bigger than the average dude but u wont have that real jacked bodybuilder look.If u want to walk around and have people think you're a bodybuilder you're going to have to take test, tren & possibly GH, year round. Are u ready for that type of hormonal commitment? Probably not. So just stay natty, workout to stay healthy, and work w/ what you've got.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    I guess the question is, What are your goals? Do u want to look like a "bodybuilder"? At your height, you'd have to be about 250 pounds with 8 percent bodyfat to look somewhat like a competitive bodybuilder. No oral cycle, whether D-Bol or any DS/PH, will ever get u there. So why bother? U may look bigger than the average dude but u wont have that real jacked bodybuilder look.If u want to walk around and have people think you're a bodybuilder you're going to have to take test, tren & possibly GH, year round. Are u ready for that type of hormonal commitment? Probably not. So just stay natty, workout to stay healthy, and work w/ what you've got.
    You do realize their are weight classes in bodybuilding right?
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    I guess the question is, What are your goals? Do u want to look like a "bodybuilder"? At your height, you'd have to be about 250 pounds with 8 percent bodyfat to look somewhat like a competitive bodybuilder. No oral cycle, whether D-Bol or any DS/PH, will ever get u there. So why bother? U may look bigger than the average dude but u wont have that real jacked bodybuilder look.If u want to walk around and have people think you're a bodybuilder you're going to have to take test, tren & possibly GH, year round. Are u ready for that type of hormonal commitment? Probably not. So just stay natty, workout to stay healthy, and work w/ what you've got.
    Ignorance is bliss, or so they say.

    You do realize there is more to lifting than just bodybuilding right?

    Being stronger for example....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    Is it SupaHalo?

    Always thought that sounded interesting. Most definitely would run some Exemestane on cycle tho to keep gyno away; M14ADD is bad about that they say, and Dbol (it converts a bit to Dbol) most definitely does. Stack with Stano vs 4dhea since the M14add is already wet.
    Yea it is called B.E.A.S.T. Supa-halo, says its superdrol and halodrol

    And yes I read wet gains I read, which I'm not looking for. Is there a ph that resembles anavar or winstrol for a more solid dry gain?
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    Wow JRAM, that was like a Planet Fitness ad.

    Hang it up now boys, might as well go home, not worth trying....

    You're right about the bodybuilder thing - to a point. IFBB pro, yep. But to just look cut up and muscular, it's doable with orals and serious diet/training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    Ignorance is bliss, or so they say.

    You do realize there is more to lifting than just bodybuilding right?

    Being stronger for example....
    Does getting bigger mean you're getting stronger? I've been doing GVT for 3 weeks now and my arms and chest have blown up as compared to when I was using heavy sets. Though I haven't checked if my strength increased but I doubt it would increase from volume training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    I guess the question is, What are your goals? Do u want to look like a "bodybuilder"? At your height, you'd have to be about 250 pounds with 8 percent bodyfat to look somewhat like a competitive bodybuilder. No oral cycle, whether D-Bol or any DS/PH, will ever get u there. So why bother? U may look bigger than the average dude but u wont have that real jacked bodybuilder look.If u want to walk around and have people think you're a bodybuilder you're going to have to take test, tren & possibly GH, year round. Are u ready for that type of hormonal commitment? Probably not. So just stay natty, workout to stay healthy, and work w/ what you've got.
    Thanks for the feedback broski!

    My goals are simple, I don't wanna an overly gorilla looking guy. If u read my first post I have come along way with good mind set of eating and lifting.

    Steroids to me Are fun to talk about. What they can do interests me. I'm sure there are plenty of people that agree with me that it is just interesting to talk about. I may never touch one, I might do them next week, either way I respect the science and conversation of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil View Post
    You do realize their are weight classes in bodybuilding right?
    Of course I realize that. But there's a look to a bodybuilder. Guys 5'10" and above need to be a certain weight to look like a bodybuilder. Natty bodybuilders who are 6'0" tall and cut to 180 for a show don't look like bodybuilders to the general public. They look like triathletes. Walk into any hardcore gym (if u can find one), guys who are as tall as the OP, and looked jacked, are at least 250 pounds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    Of course I realize that. But there's a look to a bodybuilder. Guys 5'10" and above need to be a certain weight to look like a bodybuilder. Natty bodybuilders who are 6'0" tall and cut to 180 for a show don't look like bodybuilders to the general public. They look like triathletes. Walk into any hardcore gym (if u can find one), guys who are as tall as the OP, and looked jacked, are at least 250 pounds.
    I am 6'1" and weigh about 200 and I feel jacked, but that maybe because I know I work hard and eat clean and my bf isn't prolly all that high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Ignorance is bliss, or so they say.

    You do realize there is more to lifting than just bodybuilding right?

    Being stronger for example....
    yes, I know that. I'm not into powerlifting, weightlifting, or strongman sports though. However, everybody who's anybody in those events is on the same type of hormonal regimen as a competitive bodybuilder, and it's a lot more than orals or silly PHs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post

    Also I'm still waiting for a response regarding the turinabol vs halo argument, anybody with knowledge?


    Halodrol is often thought as a PROHORMONE since it is believed to convert to OT (Oral Turinabol) but the amount that actually converts is pretty low (most likely around 3%-5% or even as high as low teens possibly). Most of halodrols anabolic and androgenic activity comes from the unconverted 3-ol interacting with the androgen receptor and not the conversion (if any). So this makes halodrol a steroid.

    Now as for Halodrol vs OT this will vary as there are all sorts of outside factors that can and will affect the results of a cycle. That said, anecdotally halodrol seems to be the better choice

    As for PH vs Orals.. the conversation is just silly. Outside of the DHEA products most orals exert an effect in the unconverted state thus making them steroids and not really prohormones. So what the discussion needs to be is steroid vs steroid and in which case you would have to compare specific steroids such as halodrol vs OT. Problem with this, as noted above, it will be quite difficult to quantify what your results will be. Your best bet is to browse the various forums and look for peoples logs for anecdotal evidence of efficiency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post
    I am 6'1" and weigh about 200 and I feel jacked, but that maybe because I know I work hard and eat clean and my bf isn't prolly all that high.
    W/ all due respect go to a national (maybe even regional) NPC show and stand next to the guys your height (there won't be many - bodybuilding is a short man's sport). You won't feel jacked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post

    Halodrol is often thought as a PROHORMONE since it is believed to convert to OT (Oral Turinabol) but the amount that actually converts is pretty low (most likely around 3%-5% or even as high as low teens possibly). Most of halodrols anabolic and androgenic activity comes from the unconverted 3-ol interacting with the androgen receptor and not the conversion (if any). So this makes halodrol a steroid.

    Now as for Halodrol vs OT this will vary as there are all sorts of outside factors that can and will affect the results of a cycle. That said, anecdotally halodrol seems to be the better choice

    As for PH vs Orals.. the conversation is just silly. Outside of the DHEA products most orals exert an effect in the unconverted state thus making them steroids and not really prohormones. So what the discussion needs to be is steroid vs steroid and in which case you would have to compare specific steroids such as halodrol vs OT. Problem with this, as noted above, it will be quite difficult to quantify what your results will be. Your best bet is to browse the various forums and look for peoples logs for anecdotal evidence of efficiency.
    So basically it is over the counter steroid vs illegal steroids

    Thanks for ur input do u have any cycle results urself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post

    W/ all due respect go to a national (maybe even regional) NPC show and stand next to the guys your height (there won't be many - bodybuilding is a short man's sport). You won't feel jacked.
    I'm sure I wouldn't, I would be in awe of there appearance to care though. I just want to be the best me there is and like I stated before I'm not a profesionl body builder but would consider myself an elite athlete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post

    Does getting bigger mean you're getting stronger? I've been doing GVT for 3 weeks now and my arms and chest have blown up as compared to when I was using heavy sets. Though I haven't checked if my strength increased but I doubt it would increase from volume training.
    No, although a bigger muscle does have the POTENTIAL to be a stronger muscle.

    I wouldn't expect much of a strength increase from GVT. But, you can expect dramatic progress when you start training for strength again (if ever).
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post

    I'm sure I wouldn't, I would be in awe of there appearance to care though. I just want to be the best me there is and like I stated before I'm not a profesionl body builder but would consider myself an elite athlete.
    An elite athlete?

    You in the Olympics bro? NFL maybe?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post

    An elite athlete?

    You in the Olympics bro? NFL maybe?
    Lol I wish, maybe elite is a little over the top, but I work hard with what I got, I'm sure you work hard, so that puts us in a different category then others man.

    I don't know if that was meant to be disrespectful or what, but I'm not here for that
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    Legit D-Bol works. It is the grand-daddy of orals (even I have done it). Most elite level bodybuilders have used it at some point in their career. If I was your age and was going to use an oral only i would go w/ the old reliable if u can source a legit product. The better option is to find an aggressive HRT clinic, they will give u pretty much whatever u need (has to be one that services a bodybuilder client base). In addition to test, they'll write u a script for Deca and even GH. U can't get tren though (home brewing is an option).
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkulek View Post

    Lol I wish, maybe elite is a little over the top, but I work hard with what I got, I'm sure you work hard, so that puts us in a different category then others man.

    I don't know if that was meant to be disrespectful or what, but I'm not here for that
    Not overly disrespectful, no.

    Just a healthy dose of reality brother. I won't ever consider myself an elite athlete, I'll wait until someone else does it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    Legit D-Bol works. It is the grand-daddy of orals (even I have done it). Most elite level bodybuilders have used it at some point in their career. If I was your age and was going to use an oral only i would go w/ the old reliable if u can source a legit product. The better option is to find an aggressive HRT clinic, they will give u pretty much whatever u need (has to be one that services a bodybuilder client base). In addition to test, they'll write u a script for Deca and even GH. U can't get tren though (home brewing is an option).
    I'm assuming they will give u what u want also means that they are grandly over priced for their services as well

    I guess if u can afford it that's the way to go, thanks for the note !
  

  
 

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