Cycle Help

[Superus]

I was planning on doing Test EN/EQ/Winny Cycle


Test EN 600mg Weeks 1-12

EQ 400mg Weeks 1-12

Winny 12-17


Sounds good?

I have plenty of nolva/clomid around but i might have to get HCG


Question is should i take out the EQ?


Also i'm worried ill lose my hair on this cycle what works to put on my hair to keep it on?

Should i run any safety supps like saw pawmetto or anything like that? let me know thanks

 

[Beelzebub]

i like it. looks great. i'd probably change the winny up some, probably week 11-16. but it shouldn't make a huge difference, what's the dose on winny anyway? HCG would definately be useful for long cycles. for hair, you could get some spiro or something but i really don't a lot about hair products, i shave my head.

 

[size]

This is w/o knowing anything about you which may change my opinion. Keep the EQ. Start the winstrol at 50mg in week 10 and use for 4-5weeks.

 

[Superus]

50mg is good enough for that long i shouldn't increase it during the weeks?

 

[Beelzebub]

no, 50mg is a good dose.

 

[glenihan]

run the test a week longer than the EQ so they clear at the same time

 

[Beelzebub]

i was thinking that too but figured it wouldn't matter since he's running the winny past the cycle.

 

[glenihan]

that's true and eq is pretty mild (although he will still be shut down and its nice to still have the exogenous test in you)... i don't understand why winny is being run to week 17 though .. assuming you keep the eq and test until week 12 the eq will be cleared between weeks 14-15 i would start pct week 15 and run the winny 11 through 14

 

[Superus]

Test EN 600mg Weeks 1-12

EQ 400mg Weeks 1-12

Winny 12-17


So whats a good example of a nice cycle?

I want to do an all out mass attack so what do you guys think?

 

[glenihan]

assuming this isn't your first cycle and you're diet, training, and rest are in order and you are looking for all out mass

dbol 40 mg 1-4
test e 600mg 1-13
eq 400mg 1-12
winny 50mg 11-14
pct 15-18

 

[Cuffs]

Bump on glenihan's cycle plan. I think going over one week with just winny defeats the purpose of running cycle with a test product as a base.

 

[size]

If you want pure mass then give more info:
1. Cycle history
2. Stats
3. Goals(ie target weight and bf%)

 

[Superus]

I'm 175 This will be my first cycle.


Ive done a couple m1t cycles and gained all the way up to 191 over a 5 month period! From my starting weight of 150
Lost some of the weight do to school stresses but i got my act together and ready to train for the winter. Everyone who knew me thought i was on roids got complements from all the guys but some girls that i was a monster maybe because i bloated up like a ballon! I think like like the skinny guys with hollow cheeks? I don't plan on getting hollow cheeks from this cycle i want to bloat like a mother i know the end result will be well worth it. I don't think M1t has an effect on me anymore i went up as high of a 30MG dose. Haven't done anything in about 5+ months


I'm 5'8
My goal is 195 with under 10% body fat
I never saw my six pack hopefully i can fullfill this goal in 2005.

my diet is going to be about 4000Cals 400+ Protein i'm going to go highly up on my complex carb intake about over 400 grams i'm going to eat as lean as possible but i don't mind a little fat.

What else supps should i carry with me while on cycle and PCT? My last M1t cycle i had lots of nose bleeds do to high BP i'm going to get my blood work done before i start this cycle so hopefully i can start this by jan.

I never pinned myself and i'm scared of pinning a vein in my glute and shooting up... what are the chances of that happening? i never heard of any deaths on pinning so let me know. Thanks

 

[exnihilo]

Uh. Me likey the dbol - next cycle I'm going to run it for 6 weeks. If you're looking for insane mass gain, insane strength gains, and insane pumps, that's the one to use. Eat like 6000 calories a day while on it and watch the muscles grow

If you respond well to test that 600mg will probably work pretty well for ya, I don't have any experience with the EQ, some people love it and some people don't get anything from it till they get their dosage up near a gram... Your milage may vary.

As far as hitting a vein, aspirate man, damn.

 

[Superus]

Today i had a talk with my friend and he said that Sus250 is better than Test EN and that blood pressure won't go up and down with Sus250. I told him Sus250 can cause unstable blood pressure but i'm not sure. He's offering to sell it to me for $150 not sure if thats a deal. but i told him i want the TEST EN he can get me 2 sealed for $200. (not sure if i can discuss prices here)


Should i just get the SUS250 2 bottles?

 

[exnihilo]

First off, those prices are crap (unless you're talking 50ml vials). Secondly, you want to inject at least twice a week with test enanthate, for our purposes it's better than sust and cheaper as well.

 

[Cuffs]

Basically you'd be paying gym prices there dude. And, you can inject 500mg's of Test E once a week, but twice is recommended by most. I wouldn't go more than that, unless you like to front load for the first week like some may suggest. Although, it's not necessary.

 

[Superus]

He told me the bottles last 5 weeks all the bottles he selling me.

 

[exnihilo]

Right, so then 10ml, probably 250mg/ml. Horrible price man...

 

[Superus]

Ok Guys I was thinking it over again!


How's This for muscle gaining and losing fat


1. Test EN 600 MG 1-14

2. Tren EN 800 MG 1-12

3. Wintrol 75 MG 12-14


Help me fix that up a little bit does this look good for quality muscle building

 

[dego]

Ok Guys I was thinking it over again!


How's This for muscle gaining and losing fat


1. Test EN 600 MG 1-14

2. Tren EN 800 MG 1-12

3. Wintrol 75 MG 12-14


Help me fix that up a little bit does this look good for quality muscle building

You can never go wrong with Test/Tren. 12 weeks of tren are you going to front load? I would try to get a hold of some HCG as tren is pretty suppressive.

 

[exnihilo]

Ok Guys I was thinking it over again!


How's This for muscle gaining and losing fat


1. Test EN 600 MG 1-14

2. Tren EN 800 MG 1-12

3. Wintrol 75 MG 12-14


Help me fix that up a little bit does this look good for quality muscle building

That will give results for sure.

 

[Beelzebub]

IMO, 800mg of tren is an assload for a first cycle. yeah, it'll definately yield results though. example, i'm on my second cycle at 271 lbs using 525mg of tren ace per week, and feeling pretty damn good. might want to start at a lower dose and see how it works. not everyone responds well to tren.

 

[Superus]

Your probably right I'll Keep the Tren EN at 500MG For starters I just went to the doctor to get blood work and he said everything checked out normal and i'm a healthy young man I'm 21 btw.

Just a couple questions since this is Tren EN i only have to pin maybe once or twice a week like Test EN?


Of course i will be adding HCG, Nolva and Clomid to the mix I"m not sure right now how i should go about my PCT cycle IE. Dosage and for how long of each substance. So it would be great if you guys and give me a soild PCT plan I had one but i deleted out of my computer by mistake.


So this looks final right here.


1. Test En 600 MG 1-14

2. Tren En 500 MG 1-12
(See how i do on this if not ill bump little bit more, Also i might do 800MG for the first 2 weeks and then drop to 600 to 500MG how does
that sound?)

3. Wintrol 75 MG 12-14



This is my first cycle i'm weighing in at 175 trying to be at least 195 or more by summer hopefully looking lean. Height 5'8

I will be taking in more than 500 Grams of carbs and over 400 grams of protein I will be eating quality meals and the meals will spread to 8 a day.

 

[Beelzebub]

500mg of tren sounds much better, you'll be pleased.

For HCG, run it throughout the cycle at 250 iu's twice per week (so 500iu's per week). Some prefer to start HCG right at the first week, some wait til the 4th or 5th week when they're starting to feel suppressed, i.e. nuts going bye-bye. How many iu's do you have?

PCT for nolva and clomid, this is what worked for me.
Week 1
Nolva 80mg ed
Clomid 100mg ed
Week 2
Nolva 60mg ed
Clomid 80mg ed
Week 3
Nolva 40mg ed
Clomid 60mg ed
Week 4
Nolva 20mg ed
Clomid 50mg ed

For this one, I will be trying out fenugreek for PCT as well given Dr.D's explanation. Sounds like some good ****. Also, sounds like DHEA is working well for PCT as well. Both are cheap, so you've got nothing to lose there. From what I understand, take 100mg of DHEA in the morning and another 100mg in the afternoon. Take the fenugreek at nighttime before bed.

 

[Superus]

Thanks for the info

I have a lot of nolva and clomid on hand i just don't have the HCG yet.

Also my question about tren enanthanate does it piin like test En once ot twice a week?

Before i go to my source and ask about tren enanthanate whats a good brand to buy this stuff does QV make it?

 

[Beelzebub]

not sure if any vet labs make it yet. in any case, twice a week, just take it with your test enan, load em together in one pin.

 

[Superus]

Who makes Tren En? ( I heard UG labs) If so whats the quality like?)

Or do i have to homebrew this stuff?

 

[sage]

Who makes Tren En? ( I heard UG labs) If so whats the quality like?)

Or do i have to homebrew this stuff?

Lot of the UG labs are making tren enan. Cuts back on the ed/eod injection of acetate.
Sage

 

[Beelzebub]

Who makes Tren En? ( I heard UG labs) If so whats the quality like?)

Or do i have to homebrew this stuff?

quality depends on the lab. do your source homework and it'll come together. :cheers:

 

[Superus]

Quality depends on the Lab your right So Is UG Labs a Good Quality Company to buy Tren EN?

I'm fairly new to Tren EN so i do'nt know who makes this stuff.

I Think Someone said IP makes it but to stay away from that Company.

Anyothers would be greatly appreciated

 

[Beelzebub]

not sure if i can discuss any particular labs on this board. but from what i've heard, UGL has quality stuff.

 

[exnihilo]

There are a number of boards with open source posting and sources that are mod/vet approved. Head over to one of those and you should find all the info you need...

 

[glenihan]

be carefuly with tren E, its in your system for a long time, so if you react horribly to it and stop, you'll still be reacting horribly a week later
i would always recommend a first time tren user use tren ace
with that said i'm a pussy and still haven't tried any form of tren

 

[Superus]

Tren EN Like horribly for like a month? Or like what?

 

[Beelzebub]

1-2 weeks most likely. that's why most recommend giving tren ace a run first to see how you react to it. most don't have problems but you never know.

 

[Superus]

Anything for muscle now i gotta see if my source can provide this stuff

 

[Superus]

Final Draft.


1. Testosterone Enanthate 600MG Weeks 1-12 (First Week Front Load 800MG) 1/Shot a Week

2. Trenbolone Enanthate 500Mg Weeks 1-12 (First Week Front Load 800MG) 1/Shot a Week

3. Winstrol 75MG Weeks 9-14

*Test/Tren Will Be Mixed in the same syringe*

-----------------
Taking with Cycle
-----------------

1. "Brand Primaforce" Pro Liver Nac(1000Mg)/Milk Thistle(600Mg)/Pill Combined ==|1/Pill a Week|===
2. "Brand Primaforce" Pure ALA 300MG/Pill ==|Taking 1 Pill Everyday|==
3. "Brand Irwin Naturals" Prosta-Strong (Click Here For info) SS = 4Pills ==|Taking 4Pills Once a Week|==
4. "Brand Syntrax" Guggulbolic Extreme ==|4 Pills Everyday|==



------------------
Post Cycle Therapy
------------------

1. HCG Weeks 1-4 (1/Shot Every Week 1000IU)
2. Clomid/Nolva Weeks 1-4 (Nolva 80mg ED//Clomid 100Mg ED)


----
Diet
----

I have about 40 Boxes of VPX MRP Michellean So i'm going to be putting them to use.*
I'm going to be eating 7-8 Meals a day Totaling 5000 Calories 600 Carbs 400-500 Protein.

*These boxes are going to last me for 2 months since i'm takin 8 packets a day Since this is a bulking cycel i'm going to eat realfood/packets.
I might go over the 5K Cal Count.

--------
About me
--------
1. Height - 5'8
2. Weight - 175
3. BodyFat- 13% BF

 

[davedave]

I was planning on doing Test EN/EQ/Winny Cycle


Test EN 600mg Weeks 1-12

EQ 400mg Weeks 1-12

Winny 12-17


Sounds good?

I have plenty of nolva/clomid around but i might have to get HCG


Question is should i take out the EQ?


Also i'm worried ill lose my hair on this cycle what works to put on my hair to keep it on?

Should i run any safety supps like saw pawmetto or anything like that? let me know thanks

Why would you run winstrol, a cutter steroid, with test En. and EQ, bulking steroids...unless your trying to minimize water gains, id say cut out the wistrol. And all the guys say 50mg/week of winstrol is enough ae retarded...you need a minimum or 350mg/week for it to be of any use...which is why is such an expensive AAS.

IT looks liek a good beginner cycle...buts it too long...make it 10-12 weeks, including the down taper.

Dont taper on.

Id say the best route would be

week 1- 1g test en. -400mg EQ
weeks 2-10-600mg test en. -400mgEQ
week 11-200mh test en. no EQ
week 12- 200mg test en. NO EQ


then (if your not on your nolva. or clomid while on the cycle) go on whichever you have shosen as you post cycle therapy drug two weeks after...

if you use clomid:

day one 100mg, then 50mg/day ever day after that until you test level are back to normal (you need blood test to know this.

if your using nolvadex...i dont from load it...I peronally dont think its usfull to front load nolva. ...just take it a 40mg/day till test level return to normal.

if you talk nova throughout the cycle...take it at 10-20 mg...clomid....50mg is good...i prefer nolva, as its cheaper, and mg per mg, its more potent then clomid.

IF...you chooose to stick with that long cycle...get some HGC for sure...and take it ever 3rd week, ever other day at 3000-5000iu....

i think i covered everything...if you knew all this...I appologise...just making sure your safe man.




ddjd

 

[glenihan]

Id say the best route would be

week 1- 1g test en. -400mg EQ
weeks 2-10-600mg test en. -400mgEQ
week 11-200mh test en. no EQ
week 12- 200mg test en. NO EQ

there is no reason at all to taper down .. either just cut the EQ a week before the test enan and start PCT 10 days later .. or cut the eq and test e the same day and use prop for two weeks then start PCT 2-3 days later

and i would run the eq for 12 weeks and the test e for 13

IF...you chooose to stick with that long cycle...get some HGC for sure...and take it ever 3rd week, ever other day at 3000-5000iu....

i think i covered everything...if you knew all this...I appologise...just making sure your safe man.

ddjd

DO NOT EVER shoot 3000-5000ius of HCG at once EVER .. use 250ius-500ius 2x a week throughout your cycle and stop before PCT

 

[exnihilo]

LOL. You're gonna get fucked up bad shooting 3000-5000ius of HCG every other day - that could cause permanent hypogonadism bro. I do 500iu EOD because I don't want to shoot 250 ED, but I think that'd be the optimal protocol. Next time I'm just gonna man up and go that route...

 

[kwantam]

I do 500iu EOD because I don't want to shoot 250 ED, but I think that'd be the optimal protocol. Next time I'm just gonna man up and go that route...

I was under the impression that shooting hCG ED was unnecessary, since its activity peaks at 2 and 5 days.

Also, clearly dosing varies from person to person, but do you really think you require 500iu EOD? There's no reason to take more than necessary to keep your testicles from atrophying, no?

-kwantam

 

[exnihilo]

Well, a study I saw showed that low intra-testicular testosterone levels were implicated in androgen induced testicular atrophy and hypogonadism. I seem to remember the dosing protocols tested were 100iu eod, 250iu eod and 500iu eod, and if I recall correctly they showed a ~50% decrease, ~20% decrease and 7% increase in intra-testicular testosterone levels from baseline. I also am significantly larger than your average human and also tend to be less responsive to medication in general, in a dose/weight related way.

 

[davedave]

there is no reason at all to taper down .. either just cut the EQ a week before the test enan and start PCT 10 days later .. or cut the eq and test e the same day and use prop for two weeks then start PCT 2-3 days later

and i would run the eq for 12 weeks and the test e for 13



DO NOT EVER shoot 3000-5000ius of HCG at once EVER .. use 250ius-500ius 2x a week throughout your cycle and stop before PCT

yeah I accidently put an extra 0...it supposed to be 300-500...

thanks for correcting me...

And no...you dont need to taper drungs with long half lifes...(tapering is necessary for drugs with shirt half lifes, for example, test. suspension) as drungs with long half lifes taper naturally....how ever..it does make sense to taper off drugs when staking...and, if youve ever done the math, tapering saves you money in the last weeks and keeps you present test amounts present in system high...its nice for beginners...when youre more expirienced, you need more, so you want to keep amounts as high as possible till the end....

13 weeks is far too long for a cycle...8-20 weeks is the longest you need to go...im not pushing 272 for nothing...


I consider Bill robers to be the foremost authority on steroids...most things ive leaned, its been from him.

 

[exnihilo]

I personally like 12 week cycles - affordable, you can fit 2 in a year, you're not on too long, plenty of time to get good results, seems like the right amount of time to me.

Bill Roberts has said some things that blatantly don't have any connection with reality (dbol bridge anyone?) and his understanding of biochemistry and physiology is obviously limited. I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt...

 

[glenihan]

And no...you dont need to taper drungs with long half lifes...(tapering is necessary for drugs with shirt half lifes, for example, test. suspension) as drungs with long half lifes taper naturally....how ever..it does make sense to taper off drugs when staking...and, if youve ever done the math, tapering saves you money in the last weeks and keeps you present test amounts present in system high...its nice for beginners...when youre more expirienced, you need more, so you want to keep amounts as high as possible till the end.....

this makes absolutely no sense at all

13 weeks is far too long for a cycle...8-20 weeks is the longest you need to go...im not pushing 272 for nothing.....

i can only assume you meant 8-10 weeks .. and that's ridiculous 12 weeks isn't remotely close to long especially for cycles with long esters .. and that's great your 272 .. your info is still way off