Hello people new here and about to run a cycle of havoc

[Adrianbouzada]

Hello guys, been surfing this website for a long time even though i have just joined it the other day.
I am 25, I'm 5' 10" i weight 170lbs. Been working out for 6 years. My recent goal is to get up to 180-190 shredded.
I have been reading a lot about phs lately, i have some knowledge about them since my brother ran a cycle of SD last year and i know how this stuff works a little. So i wanna give it a try and stay as safe as possible and getting the most gains from it. Reading on this website and talking to our friend google i decided to do havoc as first cycle since they say its good and is one with the least if none double side effects.

I have a couple of questions to make. Because i couldnt find the right answers since people say different stuff about it.
I know besides havoc i need other supplements to make it safe and better for the gains. Do i need to load up with hawthorne berry for blood pressure before taking it? I heard some people do that with other phs but since this one is kind of mild i dont know if thats needed? Any other supplements needed before the cycle?
Also i need liver care like organ shield or liv52 do i take that during or after with pct? as for pct i would take nolvadex and a test booster and creatine. I would be taking during cycle fish oil, joint support,bcaas and amino acids, multivitamin, plenty of protein and a high protein diet with low fat.

If anyone ran this before i would like to know how did it go for you and how did you dossage it and how did you do it like what supplementation did you take before/during/after.

Looking foward to hear from you guys. Thanks!

EDIT :
So i finally decided to give havoc a try. This week i will be ordering everything i need to run this cycle in january. Here im gonna post what my cycle is going to look like and please criticize it and tell me if anything is missing.

PRIOR CYCLE :
-Hawthorn Berries 565mg -> Going to take it for about 2 weeks prior cycle.
-Cycle support : AI sports Cyclo Support -> 2 weeks before cycle along with hawthorn berry (if theres a better choice then please let me know)

DURING CYCLE :
-havoc 4 weeks cycle 10/20/30/40 or something like that not really sure whats the best dossage yet.
-AI SPORTS cycle support
-Red yeast rice 600mg
-Hawthorn berry 565mg
-Taurine
-Melatonin (if needed)
-Liv52 and or organ shield (dont think its necessary to take both is it?)
-Animal pak multivitamin
-fish oil
- dymatize elite whey or ON whey 2 scoops post workout
- ON serious mass

PCT :
-Nolvadex (not sure about dossage)
-Erase test booster
-Creatine
-AI sports cycle support
-liv52 and or organ shield.

SO it would be something like that. What do you experts think? Thanks

[ThunderHumper]

you seem to have some idea of how to run it, just missing how to put it all together. basicly, 2 week preload hawthorne because it causes an initial bp spike before taking effect. ph's also cause initial bp spikes, so you want to avoid a double spiker

second, is methylated which means the liver hates it. sd is dimethyl, which meas the liver hates that more. but youd still want an all round support sup to protect lver, cholesteol,rostate, bp, etc on cycle. look into ai cycle assist, cel cycle assist, or n2guard, and run them all the thru pct.

epi = 4-6 weeks of 30-6mg/day. find your sweet spot and ride it

[PumpHouse]

Get your calories in. Youre not going to put 10-20 pounds on a low fat diet. Atleast I wouldn't think so. How much above maintenance do you plan on eating?

[Adrianbouzada]

you seem to have some idea of how to run it, just missing how to put it all together. basicly, 2 week preload hawthorne because it causes an initial bp spike before taking effect. ph's also cause initial bp spikes, so you want to avoid a double spiker

second, is methylated which means the liver hates it. sd is dimethyl, which meas the liver hates that more. but youd still want an all round support sup to protect lver, cholesteol,rostate, bp, etc on cycle. look into ai cycle assist, cel cycle assist, or n2guard, and run them all the thru pct.

epi = 4-6 weeks of 30-6mg/day. find your sweet spot and ride it

yeah im planning on running a 4 week cycle. They say the best way to do it is 10mg first day then 20mg and slowly go up to 40mg? Not really sure whats the best dossage. And yeah i saw those "cycle support" suplements, which one is the best to take? If i take that will nolvadex be needed still? Thats the only part im confused about, the pct.
Thanks man i really appreaciate your help and opinion

Get your calories in. Youre not going to put 10-20 pounds on a low fat diet. Atleast I wouldn't think so. How much above maintenance do you plan on eating?

Obviusly i am not counting on gaining that amount of size in this cycle. Thats just a goal i have to myself. And when i reach it ill see how i look and if i feel like i want more then ill go for it.

[ThunderHumper]

you need to do more reading in the pct section cuz you dont understand that part at all yet. but all 3 i mentioned are pretty good. n2guard is probly the best but it costs a boatload. i lie cel cycle assist the most for that reason. and you absolutely needo get a serm,no skipping

[Adrianbouzada]

you need to do more reading in the pct section cuz you dont understand that part at all yet. but all 3 i mentioned are pretty good. n2guard is probly the best but it costs a boatload. i lie cel cycle assist the most for that reason. and you absolutely needo get a serm,no skipping

yeah im gonna read more about the pct. But depending on the ph you take then your pct might be different from others right? Thanks.

[whaz]

yeah im gonna read more about the pct. But depending on the ph you take then your pct might be different from others right? Thanks.

That is correct to a point. For just about any PH cycle, in my opinion, you need a SERM. That stands for Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator ie. nolvadex, clomid, etc. I personally will not use a PH unless I have that on hand. I would definitely do some research on those to find what will best suit you. I have used clomid and nolvadex with success. My first cycle was an epistane cycle as well. I did CEL Cycle Assist for 2 weeks prior/during cycle/post cycle, ran epi at 20/20/30/30/40 and nolva at 20/20/10/10. The only side effect I experienced was loss of libido which you can combat with products such as Formestane, Transaderm, Dermacrine, etc.

[Adrianbouzada]

That is correct to a point. For just about any PH cycle, in my opinion, you need a SERM. That stands for Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator ie. nolvadex, clomid, etc. I personally will not use a PH unless I have that on hand. I would definitely do some research on those to find what will best suit you. I have used clomid and nolvadex with success. My first cycle was an epistane cycle as well. I did CEL Cycle Assist for 2 weeks prior/during cycle/post cycle, ran epi at 20/20/30/30/40 and nolva at 20/20/10/10. The only side effect I experienced was loss of libido which you can combat with products such as Formestane, Transaderm, Dermacrine, etc.

Yeah i will deff do a serm! Im gonna read more and when i know everything i need i will buy it and run it wait so you did cel cycle assist before, during and after cycle ? Also did you need taurine for back pumps or melatonin for sleep aid?

[whaz]

Yeah i will deff do a serm! Im gonna read more and when i know everything i need i will buy it and run it wait so you did cel cycle assist before, during and after cycle ? Also did you need taurine for back pumps or melatonin for sleep aid?

That's correct, I started taking cycle assist 2 weeks prior to starting the epi and continued to take it every day until I was done with PCT. For whatever reason back or calf pumps have never been that bad for me, most people seem to suffer from them and thus recommend taurine to help. Mine have never been anything too crazy so I've never worried about it but it's probably a good thing to have on hand just in case. I already suffer from insomnia so I've taken just about every script drug out there to try and sleep but nowdays its just melatonin and valerian root and that seems to do the trick. If sleeping isn't already an issue for you I'd imagine melatonin would do the trick. Might wanna rotate between that and valerian root just so your body doesn't build a tolerance to either.

[Hyde]

Never had any back pumps or sleep issues on Epi at 40mg/day, but sounds like they're common enough sides. And that's how you'd cope with them.

[cokeholio]

Dude I second the cals thing, from experience with epi about to run a 8 weeker with stano. up your cals please, eat everything get the low fat thing out of your head and just be careful. But you gotta eat to completely love the ride. And everybody responds diff, I ran my first epi cycle at 30 all the way and got back pumps in the last week, felt like my ass bone was gonna break off

[Adrianbouzada]

Dude I second the cals thing, from experience with epi about to run a 8 weeker with stano. up your cals please, eat everything get the low fat thing out of your head and just be careful. But you gotta eat to completely love the ride. And everybody responds diff, I ran my first epi cycle at 30 all the way and got back pumps in the last week, felt like my ass bone was gonna break off

Yeah man i plan on eating a lot like i am right now 3000-4000 cals a day trying to make it 40/40/20 but dont really count what i eat i just eat alot of meals lol
I am putting this whole cycle together and when i think i have everything i need i will post it here and you people can criticize it and or tell me whats missing and whats not necessary .

[nyyankee41]

Don't mean to hijack but had a relative question.

Looking to gain some mass and then cut. Starting wet then going dry. Have prior PH experience. Currently 6'3" 240 @ 9%. Will be preloading sup and liv juice for one week prior. Running all the typical supps (cycle sup, red yeast rice, saw palmetto, omega 3 6 9, taurine, etc). Will also being running AndroHard from PP throughout the 6 week cycle and Toco8 during last 4 weeks and pct.

SD
10/20/30
Havoc
0/0/20/30/40/40

Pct
Nolva 40/40/20/20
Erase 2 ED
PP's TRS (sustain alpha, tcf-1, EndoAmp Max, Toco8)

Thoughts?
Think just the PP TRS and erase would be good for pct or def add the nolva? Currently have both.
Go higher than 40 for Havoc?

Thanks Bros

[Hyde]

Absolutely use the Nolva. The SERM is the single component you'd have to have for any designer steroids like these. Shouldn't need more than 3 weeks of the Nolva though; it stays in the system for a while. Also, I assume you have liquid tamoxifen citrate for these mg numbers - tabs of nolvadex typically are dosed lower than how you have laid out since they're more compact. If you have pharma grade tabs, halve the doses.

[nyyankee41]

Yea. It's liquid from ar-r. If SD is low how does this look

SD
20/30/30
Havoc
0/0/30/40/40/50

Think Ai cycle support and extra milk thistle extract will be enough liver protection? I know SD can be rough. I'm not prone to gyno and havoc should take care of any but have letro just in case.

[Hyde]

I would stick with the lower previous sd dose since you intend to be taxing your liver for some time, but I take a safer than sorry approach. Slow and steady, better to keep your organs strong for more cycles than one big one. Remember, its a marathon not a sprint. And I can tell you the cycle support, loads of milk thistle and a bottle of liv52 weren't enough to keep my liver happy when I got bloods after a solo Epi cycle; do yourself a favor and get a couple bottles of Tudca. Nutraplanet, Omega Sports, Antaeus, Shredded Labs all have a tudca product; I'm sure I'm forgetting some but you get the idea.

Epi shouldn't cause gyno with how estrogen-suppressive it is, but SD gyno is prolactin-based and since sd doesn't aromatize an AI or SERM won't help much. I believe Caber or Prami would be more the route if gyno becomes an issue. Get a p5p supplement as a preventative on cycle.

[nyyankee41]

What do you suggest for preventative on cycle?

[Hyde]

I have no experience with either product, but SNS has Inhibit P and Black Lion Research has Prolactrone (just two I've read about). Based on reviews I've read, I'm inclined to think Prolactrone is the superior (but pricier) product. Do some reading and decide for yourself tho. And have access to the research chems in case the otc stuff doesn't cut the mustard.