Steroids Vs. Pro Hormones
- 11-09-2012, 04:37 PM
Steroids Vs. Pro Hormones
I was wondering which of the two were better and more efficient to.use. It would seem quite obvious anabolic steroids would be but I wanted an idea of how much more efficient when they are compared to a pro hormone, if they are at all. I realize there are different strengths of both compounds I am just talking generalities. I will take anabolics in the future but just trying Ph at the moment because personally it was just easier to get because of the interference of the illegalization of anabolics. Let me know what y'all think! I am new at this all I'm trying to do is become more educated.on the matter. Thanks!
- 11-09-2012, 04:54 PM
AAS if you can get it, but it all depends on which compounds you are wanting run. This seems to be a popular subject lately, I'd search the forums and/or google for a more in depth answer. I'm sure you'll find a ton of threads comparing different compounds.
- 11-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Prohormones are steroids. With that said, injectables tend to be easier on the body, but orals tend to pack the mass on faster. The best situation seems to be a longer injectable cycle where you run an oral at the beginning in conjunction.http://www.facebook.com/Celtic.Labs - Celtic Labs Representative
11-09-2012, 06:52 PM
11-09-2012, 07:03 PM
11-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Thanks that gave me some good insight. I realize saying which is "better" is pretty vague but i have no other way to put it i guess. Thanks for the answers
11-10-2012, 10:56 AM
I did my fair share of PH/PS before taking the plunge into AAS. looking back i did a lot of yo-yoing, gain 10 lbs or more on a PH/PS cycle then lose most in PCT maybe keep a few. then AAS came into my life, i was 190lbs when i started AAS now i'm 235lbs. now of course thats hard training and wise eating but still could not have put theat much quality size on with just food, sleep and training
11-11-2012, 10:47 AM
11-11-2012, 11:07 AM
I grouped SD and PHs together because they are grouped together commonly. I know of one source out of maybe 30 that actually sells superdrol.
11-11-2012, 12:48 PM
Anyone who groups methyl masteron as a pro hormone IS an idiot, even worse is when they know it isn't, but still do in order to fit in with the rest of the uninformed crowd, continuing to spread misinformation around like dog food.Originally Posted by jt339
Those people are probably learning, but they aren't teaching, or leading.
11-11-2012, 01:00 PM
Real matureOriginally Posted by Husker89
11-11-2012, 01:14 PM
So if I'm the typical "idiot" who comes in here knowing SD is strong as hell and can blow your lipid and liver values into oblivion (which seems to be common knowledge even amongst the biggest "idiots"), what will telling this person it isn't a PH, but a DS do? What else is there to consider?
You might want to take a step back and not assume that everyone is dumber than you are. I am hardly an idiot, as the biochemistry degree I have and medical doctorate I will be receiving in 2.5 years should prove.
11-11-2012, 03:19 PM
I'm sorry to hurt your feelings doctor.
11-11-2012, 03:31 PM
What everyone else has said so far besides the idiot convo lol...i just think its funny cause if we were all talking in person i doubt people would call u names to your face...anyway...if u can get ur hands on aas thays the better route, ph tend to come with stronger sides and less gains than aas, just imo....the gains you make from aas are easier to keep during a proper pct, than ph..this is all my opinion so pls dnt call me names, hahah
11-11-2012, 03:33 PM
11-11-2012, 06:35 PM
good stuff guys. Way to stay on topic
With that said, I'm not personally convinced that running anything without an actual test injection along is worth the side effects and queationable net gains
11-11-2012, 06:42 PM
11-11-2012, 06:54 PM
really though? I think most people are afraid of self injecting. For me, I learned the hard way what Ph can do to you, even with textbook pct. And as far as laws, research chems are "not for human consumption"- not sure how laws work with thatOriginally Posted by jt339
11-11-2012, 07:52 PM
11-13-2012, 10:05 AM
What did u learn, im like on the line about this. I have done sd and had a hellova good time. But lost alot of the gains. So know im wondering should i make the step towards injecting.... Also scared of needles... The gains stick around longer?Originally Posted by threeFs
GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
11-13-2012, 03:02 PM
Nice, good luckOriginally Posted by ricka182
GAME ON! MOVAH FUKAZ!
11-14-2012, 12:17 AM
this is why i get mad, Prohormones like halodrol CONVERT to active steroids in this case oral turinabol. Anabolic/androgenic steroids CAN BE INJECTABLE, TRANSDERMAL, ORAL, it doesnt mattter. So when people say "ph tend to come with stronger sides and less gains the aas" this is so wrong and stupid. Trust me anadrol 50 has much more sides than halodrol. The problem is people think that because it is in a pill and is legal it is a prohormone, NO, most are actually active anabolic steroids ie sd epistane dymethazine etc... So the correct thing to say would be "Oral steroids have some liver effects that are worse than injectables because of the methylation, however winstrol and dianabol are methylated so if you inject them they are just as hard on the liver. Stanaodrol which i believe converts to dht so it is a prohormone is unmethlyated and has minimal sides and some pretty good lean gains for sex drive hardening effect and strength. It is the spreading of bad info that bothers me, I make mistakes all the time but they get corrected , we need to right info so people are safer and can help themselves if wanted
11-14-2012, 01:32 AM
Then, finally I moved to AAS which are injectables and they need a longer and thicker needle because it's an intermuscular; but dont let that scare you. It isnt that much thicker and what I still do is numb the injections spot with ice, so when I stick it I dont even feel the pinch, once it's in there is no pain except for some pressure because AAS are oil based and thick so to get it in requires some strength and as it's going in you feel some pressure but nothing serious.
Start off by doing 2ccs once per week. This may sound crazy; but I've learned to enjoy the injections now. One more thing, I started and still inject in my theigh. It's just easier and I believe least painful aside from the pinch which you can avoid with ice numbing as I mentioned above.
11-14-2012, 07:52 AM
What I learned is that if your serm is bunk and you're shutdown, life sucks. My total test level was 60 and my free was 2.9. This was after 4 weeks of torem, daa, herbal test booster, and erase pro in week 3.Originally Posted by murk01
Pinning with test would have prevented that. The depression, tiny balls, waking up 3-4x/night was the worst thing I could have ever lived through. You're stuck in this dark place and can't get out.
Pinning was scary the first 2-3 times, I will be honest. I got cold sweats, ears ringing, super dizzy and almost passed out. Those symptoms became less with each injection. It's still a rush but nothing as traumatizing as those first times.
Running PH is fun while on but the depression that follows, combined with the lost gains just seems worthless. Testosterone base would certainly help retain muscular gains IMO, perhaps not 100% but certainly more so than running without.
11-14-2012, 08:40 AM
The only thing keeping me from an AS/PH is the fear of having a subpar PT... that and while i have a full head of hair, MPB runs in my family. Everyone else is bald :P
I had convinced myself that a prohorome was safer, and therefore better... but realistically i think an Anabolic steroid is where its at.
You are your own maker. Train dirty.
11-14-2012, 08:48 AM
Lol at this..you are kidding me right? I'm assuming you went to school and know what a provolone is, a precursor..Dude some do convert, but by the time it's broken down by the liver and converted then it's not a strong form of whatever steroid it is...plus a lot of pros are bunk and weak, just got to get the right one.if you have ever done an injectable was cycle, then you would know hands down the gains and sides are way better than. Pro\ designer cycle..it's common sense so the next time you try to prove someone wrong atlaeast make sure you are 100% correctOriginally Posted by Husker89
11-14-2012, 09:07 AM
Hdrol isn't a prohormone.Originally Posted by Husker89
11-14-2012, 09:09 AM
AAS injectables-(various testosterone esters, deca, eq, primo, masteron, Tren)most are not methylated, can be run for longer periods of time, long cycles allow for gains to be solidified due to body having time to become adjusted to new weight, for obvious reasons easy to run a test base, illegal without prescription, realistic sides(common not all inclusive) that many but NOT ALL experience:High BP, Lower HDL higher LDL, Raised Hematocrit, hair loss, suppresion of natural test levels, gyno, some users not all will require support products such as AI, SERMS, BP supps or meds, blood donating, HCG and so on.
Oral AAS traditional-(Dbol, Anadrol, Anavar, Winstrol) methylated( all but andriol as far as I know) so liver toxic, depending on compound gains can be quick and quite large(there are exceptions), do not lend themselves to long cycles due to methylation(some will run for long cycles and say that the liver concerns are overblown, hey it's your body do what you want but most would prefer to keep the time short) Sides are the same as above with the added risk of liver enzyme elevation and loss of libido due to not being the same as test(this is mediated by many by running injectable test. Illegal with out script.
Designer Oral AAS-(Dymethazine, M-sten, Halodrol, Epistane)These are the same as above but are currently not illegal to posses. They have less research and anecdotal evidence due to not being out as long as traditional oral AAS but by all accounts are just as potent. Legal at the moment(at least some still are.)
Prohormones:These are steroid hormones in structure but are not active at the AR(for the most part some such as the old 4-androstenediol had some intrinsic activity at the AR) until they are converted via enzymes in the body to active hormones. Due to being conversion dependent they are not as powerful as the above but offer certain advantages. Products such as BULK-UP, 4-AD, Alphamass, Stano and so on can be ran for longer than the above orals. PH are available that now convert to test and provide the all important test base that is commonly used by those running test injections with there cycles. The longer cycles that can be ran help solidify the gains, the conversion to test helps mediate side effects to a DEGREE, and the lack of methylation makes the TRUE PH far easier on the body. Some sides are still possible such as high BP in those who are very sensitive but IN GENERAL many find the ride much smoother with a good PH than the other orals mentioned above. They are currently legal. So PH can be run in longer cycles just like injects, support test levels like test injects, little to no liver issues like most injects and like I said are legal. Obviously I rep for a PH company so I think they are a nice option especially when ran as a test base with the above compounds but I am not blind there are differences and drawbacks, I won't lie to you and say you can achieve with PH's what you could with injects, you simple cannot. But you can achieve SOME of what you would with injects.
PH's being dependent on enzymes in the body and absorption will always have a ceiling as to how much converts and how much you can get into the system. With an inject the sky literally is the limit, to more you shoot the higher your levels will be plain and simple.
Once you are shut down it does not matter what got your there. If you run any of the above and your endogenous test is say 150 when you come off it will be equally hard to recover no matter what compound got you there.
So they all work, some are stronger, some are safer, some limit your time on if health is a concern, some are illegal some are not. It is the dose that makes the poison and only you can make the personal choice as to what you want to put in you. No matter what you do be safe!
11-14-2012, 09:11 AM
You too.Originally Posted by blaykeryan
11-14-2012, 09:23 AM
How do running cycles longer solidify gains?Originally Posted by pushinweightw
11-14-2012, 09:31 AM
I will be the first to say there is zero scientific evidence to support my opinion, and it is simply that an opinion based on anecdotal evidence gathered and observed over the years. You will never see a study to support it for obvious reasons. IMO when you have been on longer the gains seem to stick around longer and you can change your body set point to a degree. For example:
1. Guy uses SD gains 20 LBS in three weeks and runs PCT for 4 weeks.
2. Guy 2 uses injects and gains 20lbs in 16 weeks, runs short esters towards the end so all compounds are cleared at start of PCT which is ran for 4 weeks as well.
Now we check on these two 8 weeks after their PCT's. IMO the guy who ran #2 will be maintaining better than #1. This is my opinion but the longer you held the new bodyweight the easier it is to maintain.
There is a reason people do not simply run 4 week oral only cycles gain there 15 lbs and call it a day. In the AAS community most stay on far longer, if the bulk of gains can be made in 4 weeks why stay on?
All a theory/opinion that in my experience has personally panned out. If you disagree I respect your opinion.
11-14-2012, 09:44 AM
I'm not going to disagree or agree, I'm too lazy to type out a discussion for this, and I'm on my phone.
I've succumbed to the ease of short answer.
11-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Hey no problem man I can't type on a phone unless it has decently sized buttons, touch screen forget about it(I foresee hard times in my future lol.)
Like I said all a theory but it seems to hold water for me at least. When I used to take time off I would hover around 200, then a few years later it was 220, I recently took a year off and held at 240. Of course when I take breaks I loose muscle and gain some fat but my set point has reset a few times for sure.
Like most of what we do in BB just a theory in practice. Take care.
11-14-2012, 11:09 AM
this all just proves that you should just try it yourself 8) lol cuz we will all tell you different. Here's a tip though: M-Sten is wicked. > and legal, for now.
11-14-2012, 01:08 PM
I cannot provide any scientific evidence either pushin, but I also believe this to be true. I seem to have kept a larger portion of my gains on longer cycles.
11-14-2012, 01:37 PM
One major thing to consider is the fact that you will shut yourself down with PH's or Steroids. You might as well make the most of it and go with AAS. Also, legal doesn't mean safe. Many people seem to forget that M1T was legal at one point and that stuff had some nasty side's for some people even when used conservatively. The only reason you should prefer OTC PH's/PS is fear of being caught by the police. If I was on Probation or Parole and my PO was a jerk then I'd probably not use AAS until my probation or parole was terminated.
11-14-2012, 01:42 PM
11-14-2012, 01:49 PM
11-14-2012, 02:00 PM
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