M-dien -- The Reference Point Thread

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    Exclamation M-dien -- The Reference Point Thread


    In response to the continual flood of questions asked around this board, I am starting this thread to serve as a one-stop quick reference for those who are planning to use M-dien - a feedback magnet. I realize that there are a number of journals already available, but I don't have the time to bring together all of that information if I had to do it all by myself. If everyone would contribute their own experiences here, others will be able to benefit greatly by being able to quickly survey the experiences of many, and they can take into consideration the up-to-date discussion of the consensus reached from these contributions, including recommendations. I will maintain a summary of this information in the first post.

    The form of response from contributors which would be most helpful for the compilation of valuable information would be something like what follows (but please PM me if you have suggestions for improving this). If you've done a cycle, I implore you, out of gratitude for anything you've learned here at AnabolicsMinds to do everyone else a favor, by spending five minutes to convey what happened during your cycle.

    M-dien Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting M-dien?
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    4. At what dose of M-dien did you realize the best results?
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    8. For how long did you run M-dien, and at what dose?
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing M-dien?
    10. If you were running M-dien as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    12. Evaluate the role of M-dien in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to M-dien, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    14. If you've also used Anavar, how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from M-dien? Or is there just no comparison?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

    If this thread gets a lot of contributions and traffic in the coming weeks and months, it should prove very helpful. Due to the impending ban, I encourage you to post even early impressions and results, and these can be updated as you go. Contributors can edit and re-edit their original post as they learn more, and it would be especially helpful if they add information from later cycles.

    If you have used any of the following, please post your experience in the appropriate Reference Point Thread: 1-Test/4-AD combo, a pure androgen, M1T, Superdrol, Anadrol, 1-AD, Test, M1,4ADD, D-Bol, M4OHN, Anavar, or Deca.
    Last edited by Strateg0s; 11-26-2004 at 09:22 PM.

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    Bumping for some action - come on people: it takes about 90 seconds to fill this out.
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    M-dien Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting M-dien?

    lbm 197lb's total weight 237lb's bf% 16,5%

    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    I'm about 50-60 lb's of muscle off.(not close)

    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    about the same, considering my weight

    4. At what dose of M-dien did you realize the best results?
    above 12mg ed, highest was 14.

    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    N/A
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    Didn't feel much at 8mg, but this was the first 2 weeks, so it still had to kick in.

    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    Slight incease in pimples, skin still very good though.

    8. For how long did you run M-dien, and at what dose?
    7 weeks dose sarting at 8mg ed and piramidding up to 14mg ed.

    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing M-dien?

    LBM 198lb's total 224lbs bf% 12%

    10. If you were running M-dien as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    Used 40-60mg m5 before some of my workouts, but not all.

    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    Used eca, which helped with fatloss.

    12. Evaluate the role of M-dien in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to M-dien, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    m-dien made me more vascular and helped maintain muscle mass, it contributed about 90% of total results.

    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    21, endo/meso I'm very carb sensetive but otherwise fast metabolism, dieted on 4200-4500 kcals per day.

    14. If you've also used Anavar, how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from M-dien? Or is there just no comparison?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

    N/A


    Hope that helps some pleople make some decisions, please note I had full glycogen stores at the beginning plus some water weight while I was depleted and very dry at the end.(keto diet at the end)
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    Dropping 14 pounds of lard is a damn good job. Obviously some fairly hard work and dedication on your part were needed, but this is a great example of the proper use of mdien in a cut.
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    Thanks for the input M-Dien looking better and better.
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    Glad to be of help.

    I feel that m-dien and 3alpha/m5 would be a very good cutting/pre contest stack, seeing that m4ohn seems better as a lean bulker in a stack and really isn't as dry as many thought it would be.

    I really feel m-dien = winstrol in many ways. (from what I've hear/read and seen from winstrol)
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    Wow, you cut on 4500cals.

    I am seriously jealous.
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    I have limited time so i will make this brief.

    M-D is very very underated. I believe it is primarily because of the initial dose protocol was low.

    I used it at 12-16mgs (210lbs) increasing over a two week period for a 6 weeks cutting cycle. I stacked it with 1g/d of 1,4 andro and Trimax (up to 3caps). I was also at a deficit of at least 800cals.

    I lost a whole lot (don't have my numbers here) of fat and got stronger, setting a PR on In-DB press.

    Down side - if you are pre-disposed to MPB...it may knock out a bunch of hair. At about 2-3 weeks in it was quite noticeable. That's just me.

    MD - of 5
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    Quote Originally Posted by b5150
    I have limited time so i will make this brief.

    M-D is very very underated. I believe it is primarily because of the initial dose protocol was low.

    I used it at 12-16mgs (210lbs) increasing over a two week period for a 6 weeks cutting cycle. I stacked it with 1g/d of 1,4 andro and Trimax (up to 3caps). I was also at a deficit of at least 800cals.

    I lost a whole lot (don't have my numbers here) of fat and got stronger, setting a PR on In-DB press.

    Down side - if you are pre-disposed to MPB...it may knock out a bunch of hair. At about 2-3 weeks in it was quite noticeable. That's just me.

    MD - of 5
    ....and he was able to withstand a cannonball to the gut at ever VH concert on the West Coast
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    Anecdotal evidence


    Quote Originally Posted by b5150
    I have limited time so i will make this brief.

    M-D is very very underated. I believe it is primarily because of the initial dose protocol was low.

    I used it at 12-16mgs (210lbs) increasing over a two week period for a 6 weeks cutting cycle. I stacked it with 1g/d of 1,4 andro and Trimax (up to 3caps). I was also at a deficit of at least 800cals.

    I lost a whole lot (don't have my numbers here) of fat and got stronger, setting a PR on In-DB press.

    Down side - if you are pre-disposed to MPB...it may knock out a bunch of hair. At about 2-3 weeks in it was quite noticeable. That's just me.

    MD - of 5
    I have a buddy whom I haven't seen in a year. He was fit last year but nothing special. Bigger than most guys though. I saw him last month and we talked about some things...you see, he has put on near 30 Lbs of rock solid mass and is 230#'s now. He is freaking yoked! I told him I was experimenting with Ph's and he said Methyl-D is all he took. We have talked a few more times and I keep pushing him to see if he has taken anything else, but he keeps saying "no". He would have told me if he did cause he isn't shy. I will talk with him agian in the next few weeks and see if I can get some more details. I was totally floored when I saw him. Fuken huge on a 5'10" guy.
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    I'm very curious about brand. UG has a newer 4mg tabs bottle, SciFit has the 10mg caps, then there are the legacy brand dosing that were 1-2mg cap/tab. Which did you guys use? ... or was it powder?
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverSurfer
    I'm very curious about brand. UG has a newer 4mg tabs bottle, SciFit has the 10mg caps, then there are the legacy brand dosing that were 1-2mg cap/tab. Which did you guys use? ... or was it powder?
    Not sure myself about doses at differant times i know ive had great success previuosly with 2mgs every 3 hours even had great results at 3 in three hours spacing the third out. Last time though at 3mg every 3hours didnt see much but areas like my chest are bigger between the shoulder midsection im getting a bit of skin overhanging the hips. I mean i have alot of areas that are just skin never been overweight in those areas and its sticking out more now even when my water weight drops overnight by about 8 lbs its everything is still visible.
    A few weeks back i went ahead tried mohn4 24mgs a day about two weeks in i started M-dien up as a back up and gained like 4lbs of water right when the mohn4 was kickingin. in just a few days i stopped since i dont want water.


    Useing the vitC filler from smi2lebiz at 4mgs or 3mgs every 3 hours not sure if my scale was right on. All i saw was body composition changes compared to the muscle i put on the other 8 weeks this year.

    So im thinking what good are the differant dose pills if you dont slit them up properly.
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    I'm bumping, would like to see if we could get some more feedback
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    I just filled the whole thing out, and it said my message was too short when I clicked submit. I hit back on my browser and everything I wrote was gone. Maybe I'll do it again later. What a pain in the ass.
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    damn sorry to hear that, if you write it up later i'll galdly read...
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    I'll read it too....

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    M-dien Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting M-dien?
    I would have to guess my LBM is about 180. Total weight is was 204. Not sure about LBM.
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    Not to close at all.
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    It depends on the product.

    4. At what dose of M-dien did you realize the best results?
    I've only been taking it for 9 days so far at 20mg.
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects? This dose is fine.
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains? NA
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    Increased concentration and positive attitude.
    8. For how long did you run M-dien, and at what dose? Plan on running it 8 weeks at 20mg.
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing M-dien?
    Right now my total weight is 207. Not sure on LBM again.
    10. If you were running M-dien as part of a stack, what else did you use? I am using 50 mg m5aa right now, might drop it later who knows.
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they? nope.
    12. Evaluate the role of M-dien in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to M-dien, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise? I'm not sure if its really working yet as its only been 9 days.
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    I am a 32 year old ENDO.
    14. If you've also used Anavar, how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from M-dien? Or is there just no comparison?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it) Haven't used.

    If this thread gets a lot of contributions and traffic in the coming weeks and months, it should prove very helpful. Due to the impending ban, I encourage you to post even early impressions and results, and these can be updated as you go. Contributors can edit and re-edit their original post as they learn more, and it would be especially helpful if they add information from later cycles.
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    TB - is it doing anything for strength?
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    Not yet, Deoudes59. I'm thinking though its not really had enough time to kick in really. It hasn't even been two weeks yet.
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    I am talking to my buddy who did MD this tuesday...will hopefully ge this dosages adn such. He got huge off the stuff...stby
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    One thing I got to say is I have been having trouble sleeping. I took 3 mg of melatonin last night to help. Sure it helped from about 2 am-till about 45 minutes ago!. I am awake now!. I had this problem for the last 2-3 nights. Its alright though, I just go back to sleep in an hour or 2 after I get up. It is annoying but I just consider it part of a cycle. I always have trouble sleeping on cycle. I always go back to sleep and get the extra sleep I need though. If I could stop this problem it would be great, but what can I do?. Take another melatonin? . I don't think that would be a good idea because it will stop my natural production of it and I will become dependent on the stuff...
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    Those of you who've used m-dien with mohn for cutting, how many mg's of dien did you use in the stack?
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    FINALLY got ahold of a guy who used MD VERY successfully


    Unfortunately he was a bit forgetful on the details.

    What I got was that his dosage was "whatever was on the bottle...then I doubled it." He didn't know the mg per pill though.

    He gained 15 #'s per 1 month cycle. And he did 3-4 of these.

    HE IS 230#'s and about 5'8 (I'm bad with height)

    Hope this helps somewhat.
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    is dht conversion cause by mdien? hows it on the prostate? how is shutdown?
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    M-dien Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting M-dien?

    Approximately 300 pounds... lbm unknown.

    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?

    Only been working out about 6 months at this point.. but I was extremely dedicated and following Max OT principles... Bench at the time was about 260 for 8 reps, and I finished the cycle at 285 pounds for 8 reps. But still, I carry my weight extremely well And I wouldn't be surprised if I can get to 270 pounds 10% one day.... I'm far from my genetic potential.

    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?

    For the most part I need more of any kind of drug... mostly to do with my extreme density, and large brain.. lol (I'm serious.. don't laugh)

    4. At what dose of M-dien did you realize the best results?

    15mg ED spread out evenly through the day... I would like to run more in the future.. should I ever come back to it.

    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?

    I experienced essentially no negative sides.

    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?

    I personally think anything under 10mg is a waste of time.

    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?

    Muscle hardening, recovery, and the ability to push a bit harder. Definition and fat loss was great, but I was running a cutter.

    8. For how long did you run M-dien, and at what dose?

    I actually cycled up from 3mg - 15mg - and back down again to 3mg... in line with my use of t3.

    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing M-dien?

    Strength and endurance was up, I lost about 22 pounds of fat only over 42 days. Or approximately 278 pounds.

    10. If you were running M-dien as part of a stack, what else did you use?

    M4ohn, and t3.

    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?

    Creatine... protein... Just general good high protein low fat eating.. and controlled carb - mostly post workout.

    12. Evaluate the role of M-dien in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to M-dien, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?

    Hard to determine... but between it and m4ohn, I certainly was easily able to avoid catabolism, while cutting relatively hard on a reduced carb/calorie diet... on top of being on t3.

    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?

    I'm 32 years old, and I was 410+ pounds Feb 15th 2004.. It's safe to say i gain weight easily (up 36 pounds on current cycle)

    14. If you've also used Anavar, how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from M-dien? Or is there just no comparison?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

    I had a cycle journal that was rather detailed... unfortunately the board it was on was hacked, and rolled back to august... *cry*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    TB - is it doing anything for strength?
    Yesterdays I added 30 pounds to my leg press and 2 reps!. So yes I am finally getting some strength out of it!
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    Does anyone think m-d would be any good for a bulking cycle?

    I'm thinking 20mg ed stacked with 1,4addiol and maybe 4ad trans.

    Any thoughts.

    I'm humoring the idea...
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    Eh, I think your better off with a larger dose of M4OHN than MD. M4OHN has proven strength gains, MD has been hit or miss from was i've read.
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    I read about people doing 30+ mgs of Mohn and 10+ of Mdien. But if I'm stacking them, do I need to keep each product at that high a dose, or can I lower each dose since I have two items in the stack? I.E., ~20-24mgs of Mohn and ~8 of Mdien? (for cutting)
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    You should lower the dose.

    I'd go with 10mg m-dien and 24-32mg m4ohn, depending on your size.
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    Ok this is an update. I was 204 when I started on the 6th, on the 14th I was 207. Now back to 204. This is refering to bodyweight. So the only logical explanation is I am gaining muscle and losing fat!.
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    Damn I took melatonin last night and have hardly any energy today. I'm out of vasopro too. Guess I'll just have to kick my own ass today!
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    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting M-dien?
    196lbs at 11%BF.
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    I think I hit it at 196lbs 11%BF because for 2 years regardless of training and diet I could not get more LBM.
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    It depends on the substance.
    4. At what dose of M-dien did you realize the best results?
    8mg twice a day
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    At 10mg twice a day there was no more effect than 8mg so I went back to 8mg.
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    The 2-3mg recommended dosage did nothing at all for me.
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    I felt no negatives only a positive strength increase and loss of fat.
    8. For how long did you run M-dien, and at what dose?
    4 weeks at 8mg twice a day.
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing M-dien?
    198lbs at about 10 1/2% BF.
    10. If you were running M-dien as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    M5aa at 40mg preworkout.
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    Multivitamins.
    12. Evaluate the role of M-dien in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to M-dien, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    I think most of it was from the MD since the M5aa was used as a preworkout stim.
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    22 now was 21 when I did it and I am an ecto. I am 6' and if I do nothing and eat junk I lose weight until Im about 150lbs.
    14. If you've also used Anavar, how much do you think it would take to give comparable results to those you got from M-dien? Or is there just no comparison?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)
    Sorry no Anavar experience unfortunately, and no log.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheManGuy
    You should lower the dose.

    I'd go with 10mg m-dien and 24-32mg m4ohn, depending on your size.
    Thanks! I repped you for the help.
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    I thought I would give you all an update. I will end my cycle wednesday of this week. Start PCT on Thursday. I am up to 211 pounds, same bodyfat. I gained muscle on my inner thighs, specifically Gracilis, and Adductor longus. This thanks to the 50+ pounds I added to my leg press. My last workout while on cycle I will be doing leg presses, hopefully I can add even more weight. I guess I respond really well to mdien. I heard so many negatives about though and I'm glad I tried it out. I just wish I stocked up on more. I had amazing results and I added weight and reps to every exercise, every workout. I just gained a lot of it on leg press. I also seemed to sweat a lot more on it like it had some kind of thermogenic effect while also building muscle. It was great anyway!.
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    great gains t-bone and strngth too.

    onething was hairloss an issue?
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    T-Bone what was your dose???
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    Smeton, no hairloss at all. Deoudes, it was 20mg ED. By the way I added another 40 pounds to my leg press yesterday!. Tommorow I start PCT. The only thing that really bothered me was the night sweats. I made a mistake by one day on my other post. PCT starts friday. I just can't believe how well I responded to this!. Too bad I didn't stock up on more. I just hope I keep my gains!. I am so worried about not having the same strength that I am thinking about taking a week off!. Maybe I will be better off taking the first week of PCT off?.
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    bump for this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone
    Maybe I will be better off taking the first week of PCT off?.
    Yes, you will. Consider taking CO Q10 if it's a blood pressure issue.
    Thanks for the feedback!
    How long was that cycle?
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