1-test/4-ad -- The Reference Point Thread

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    Exclamation 1-test/4-ad -- The Reference Point Thread


    In response to the continual flood of questions asked around this board, I am starting this thread to serve as a one-stop quick reference for those who are planning to use the classic 1-test/4-ad combo - a feedback magnet. I realize that there are a number of journals already available, but I don't have the time to bring together all of that information if I had to do it all by myself. If everyone would contribute their own experiences here, others will be able to benefit greatly by being able to quickly survey the experiences of many, and they can take into consideration the up-to-date discussion of the consensus reached from these contributions, including recommendations. I will maintain a summary of this information in the first post.

    The form of response from contributors which would be most helpful for the compilation of valuable information would be something like what follows (but please PM me if you have suggestions for improving this). If you've done a cycle, I implore you, out of gratitude for anything you've learned here at AnabolicsMinds to do everyone else a favor, by spending five minutes to convey what happened during your cycle.

    1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results?
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad?
    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

    If this thread gets a lot of contributions and traffic in the coming weeks and months, it should prove very helpful. Due to the impending ban, I encourage you to post even early impressions and results, and these can be updated as you go. Contributors can edit and re-edit their original post as they learn more, and it would be especially helpful if they add information from later cycles.

    If you have used any of the following, please post your experience in the appropriate Reference Point Thread: a pure androgen, M1T, Superdrol, Anadrol, 1-AD, Test, M1,4ADD, D-Bol, M4OHN, M-dien, Anavar, or Deca.
    Last edited by Strateg0s; 11-26-2004 at 09:20 PM.

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    I finally got all the stuff and I'm going to start the cycle next monday [edit: I started today to save 2 more days].
    The tread in which i discussed dosage and suggestions for the stack is here:
    My thoughts about a 4AD/4OHT cycle

    I'm starting low as this is my first cycle of these compounds, eventually raising dosage up to 50% more:
    200mg 1-Test*
    200mg 4-AD
    100mg 4-OHT
    I will be using LGP Hydroxytest + Big1 to raise the 1-Test amount. I had no time and desire to homebrew and this stuff is proven to work.

    The cycle will be 5 weeks long, followed by 4 weeks Nolva 40/30/20/20.
    I will stop taking CEX after the first week of the cycle. I dont have a kickstart product and i cant delay starting the cycle any longer (x-mas is too close)

    [*The initial amount of 1-Test is more close to 180 rather than 200, due to the 1 and half sprays of big1 i have to dose]

    1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    I will answer to the missing points at half cycle and at the end of it.

    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    See above for doses. Delivery it will be a trandsermal only cycle.

    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    4oht.
    I would also use either M1,4ADD or Superdrol the first 2 weeks to kickstart the cycle.

    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    No, I'm going to drop CEE.

    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what? (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)
    I'm 28, true ecto.
    I'm not doing a journal but i will post my comments on my cycle every 2 weeks.
    Last edited by Syr; 11-27-2004 at 10:08 AM.
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    1. Initial Total Weight: ~180 give or take, waist 33.5
    2. Nowhere near genetic potential
    3. Need less anabolics than average user
    4. 250mg/200mg 1-T/4AD (more might have been better)

    7. Side Effects
    Mild Lethargy(1-T)
    Increased Libido(4AD)
    Sense of well being(4AD)
    Strength Gains (1-T)
    Massive Bloat (4AD)
    Puffy nipples (4AD)
    Appetite Increase (Both)
    Perhaps some unwanted fat gain (4AD)

    8. 4 weeks 200-250mg 1-T, 200mg 4AD,
    T-Gel/Dermabolics Transdermal

    9. In retrospect gained no more than about 2 lbs lbm with appreciable strength gains

    12. Results: most all strength gains due to androgens taken, maybe 1 lb muscle due to androgens. Ate too much 1st 2 weeks. Had to cut back on calories when 1-T finally kicked in week 3. Otherwise results would likely have been better.

    13. Endo, 24 at time of cycle
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    Bumping for some action - come on people. It takes about 90 seconds to fill this out.
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    Cycle currently in progress, but I will give my initial results since we are so close to the ban. At the time of this post I am in the 4th week. For more details go to the log in the sig.

    cycle

    300mg 1-test trans
    300mg 4ad trans
    100mg MDHT

    Starting weight 200lbs, weight after 4 weeks 220lbs. How much of this is water, I couldn't tell you. Body fat % looks to have remained the same, waist has remained the same size. Noticeable size increases in legs, arms, and chest.

    Diet for the first three weeks was 3500-4000 cals a day, starting the 4th week cals were reduced to around 3000 and T3 was added. No cardio until the start of the 4th week.

    Strength gains have been great, I am the strongest I have ever been and have been increasing lifts week to week. Not since I first started lifting have I had these types of gains.

    Sides so far have been very minor, almost not worth mentioning. I feel normal, other than some slight difficulty sleeping and some itching (which I think the 1-test causes).

    If I had to plan the cycle over again I would have gone with 400mg 4ad instead of the 300mg.

    Body type meso/endo. I have no problems putting on size, most of it being muscle. I do have difficulty dropping below 10% body fat and maintaining it.
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    [1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    ---6-0, 203 ~10-11%
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    ---no idea
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    ---average
    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results?
    ---200mg 1-test cyp EOD & 360mg 4-ad cyp EOD
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    ---dosing was consistent
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    ---n/a
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    ---mild acne on upper body, occasional lethargy, occasional irritability and anger
    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    ---10 weeks, see #4
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad?
    ---228 ~11-12%
    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    ---threw in some M-Dien the last 2.5 weeks after I stoped the cyps
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    ---n/a
    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    ---nearly 100%
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    ---21, i'd say 70/30 meso/endo
    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league?
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)
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    1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    I've used this stack many times.
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    It's long gone
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    Varies between compounds
    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results?
    Ran solo (400/400).
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    800 1T 800 4AD
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    200/200 unless it's stacked with Superdrol
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    Strength and appetite increase. Bloat/water retention Libido boost. Bacne/acne
    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    I've ran 2 week to 6 week cycles transdermal and oral at varying doses
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad?
    varied
    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    I've stacked it with just about everything
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    I love this stack and use it as a base for all of my bulking stacks.
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    41/ecto-meso
    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league?
    Never tried


    1-T/4AD works extremely well for me. My best gains have come from stacking it with Superdrol (at very low doses) and M14ADD (at 600 1T/400 4AD). I gain water weight while on it but it leaves about 5 days post cycle.
    This also works extremely well for women's libido and attitude. 20mg 1-T/20mg 4AD once or twice per day will seriously increase libido in your girl
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    1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    weight 235lbs at 12%
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential? Natural, very close chemically enhanced, not even close
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people? average
    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results? 400mg 1test/ 600mg 4ad
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects? N/A
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains? 300mg 1 test 400mg 4ad
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative? 4ad increased libido 1 test burn on skin and sucks for contacts have to be real careful with those
    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery? transdernal 2x a day at 400mg each currently for six weeks. have done as high as 600mg 4ad and test as low as 200mg ed with results.
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad? still on cycle currently last cycle gained 10lbs
    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use? previously 1 test and currently superdrol
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they? protein, any food that once has parents
    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise? critical role as far as anabolics, seconf only diet and training
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what? 34 endo
    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league? this is similar but less potent than a test/tren stack.
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)
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    1-test/4-ad Questionnaire
    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    205lbs, 12%
    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    For the time Ive been training, pretty close
    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    Much less
    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results?
    160mg 1test / 250mg 4AD transdermal
    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too many side-effects?
    Havent tried a higher dose...didnt feel the need to.
    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    Again, not sure about this one
    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    Increased muscular endurance,increased heart rate and blood pressure
    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    4 weeks transdermal
    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad?
    After 1st cycle total weight was 220lbs, after second cycle 1.5 years later, 240lbs
    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    4OHT the second time around @ 160mg/day TD
    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    Creatine, dessicated liver, K-R-ALA/Quercetin,high calore and (relatively clean) diet
    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    The stuff is amazing, instant mass and strength. I would say Im satisfied with my gains naturally but 4 weeks of 1-test/4AD always took me to a new level
    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    29, ecto/meso-ish. More of an ecto, I would say. Look more mesomorphic all bulked out, however
    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league?
    Not sure here never did anything else. I suppose tren/test would be similar, although more potent from what Ive read.
    (If you have a cycle journal, you could link to it)

    1st cycle 3/2003
    BigVrunga starts his T1cycle...

    2nd cycle 11/2004
    BigVrunga''s Homebrew Extravaganza!

    BV
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    Deoudes' advice:
    In early 2004, I ran a 2 week cycle of 1-test and 4-ad. This was following PCT from a 2week M1T cycle.


    1. What was your LBM and total weight before starting 1-test/4-ad?
    207lbs


    2. How close are you to what you think is your natural/genetic potential?
    80%

    3. Do you seem to need (much) more or less anabolics than other people?
    Less Anabolics.

    4. At what dose of 1-test/4-ad did you realize the best results?
    Hard to say, I've had better results Not Homebrewing. (Probably my fault though).


    5. If applicable, what dose did you notice was too high, or too
    many side-effects?
    N/A

    6. If applicable, what dose did you feel was insufficient to realize gains?
    N/A

    7. Besides muscle growth, what were the side-effects for you, physical and/or psychological, positive and/or negative?
    Lethargy.

    8. For how long did you run 1-test/4-ad, and at what dose? What method of delivery?
    2 weeks 250mg 1-test, 400mg 4ad.

    9. What was your LBM and total weight after finishing 1-test/4-ad?
    214lbs

    10. If you were running 1-test/4-ad as part of a stack, what else did you use?
    N/A

    11. Briefly, if you used other non-anabolic supplements which you feel contributed to the results of your cycle, what were they?
    N/A

    12. Evaluate the role of 1-test/4-ad in the success of your cycle. How much do you attribute your results to 1-test/4-ad, as opposed to other supplements, anabolic or otherwise?
    100% to 1T/4AD.

    13. For the record, what is your age, and are you ecto, endo, meso or what?
    I was 21, 80% ecto 20%meso

    14. If you've tried some AAS stack, what do you think would give you comparable gains to 1-test/4-AD? Or are AAS in an entirely different league?
    N/A
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