- 11-21-2004, 09:48 PM
I've been studying the use of progestrone to control estrogen. Has anyone ever heard of this in men???
Interesting Article: http://www.drwong.info/drw-restoring.htm
- 11-22-2004, 06:12 PM
Yeah, unfortunately, it's still progesterone. It's catabolic and has a negative affect on your HPA among other things. An attenuated version is better. For example all 17-methylated anabolics are to some degree progestinic, especially 19-nor derivatives.
11-22-2004, 07:14 PM
11-22-2004, 07:33 PM
Oh yeah, great for estro control. Just like Wong's article said. Low doses might be feasible. Yam contains diosgenin, a strerol. It's good stuff. Same active as fenugreek.
11-22-2004, 08:42 PM
11-22-2004, 11:46 PM
It's a PCT herb. Like Tribulus but much stronger. It's also good while on to avoid liver congestion and gall bladder issues. It was originally maketed for diabetes, so his has multiple uses. It's good stuff. I always have a full bottle ready for when I run out, because I stay on it about half the time! I also suspect that diosgenin may improve cholesterol numbers.
11-23-2004, 05:49 AM
I have seen a few studies on pubmed suggesting its good for lowering cholesterol, and lots of studies on its affects on blood sugar levels. Couldn't find anything about it affecting hormone levels. Do you think it has uses outside if PCT? besides its appetite enhancement.Originally Posted by DR.D
11-23-2004, 09:19 AM
Very nice!Originally Posted by DR.D
I'm getting it for the appetite stim property, but these other effects sounds really good while on cycle....
Do you suggest to take it on cycle, during PCT, or regardless?
I would take break periods as i do with everything, anyway
11-23-2004, 10:13 AM
I have read it has the same sides as estrogen??? Would this be something beneficial for PCT in addition to an A.I.???Originally Posted by DR.D
As for the herb fenugreek, does it stimulate LH, similar to tribulus???
11-23-2004, 07:01 PM
I have read some too, I can say that it does appear to shave cholesterol numbers, but my diet sux, so it probably works better that I suspect. It's a sterol and a proven anti-absorbtion factor for dietary chol at least. It was originally marketed for blood sugar probs, but that benefit may be from it's volatile constituents, like it's oils, rather that it's sterol content. I never really noticed an app. stimulating effect per say, but it is the real deal for PCT.Originally Posted by 200wannabe
11-23-2004, 07:08 PM
Yeah, I take it on cycle mostly. It probably also helps the liver dump bile in a timely fashion, so it serves multiple uses on cycle. It should be cycled to remain effective. It starts to play out if you don't give it a break. This is how I do:Originally Posted by Syr
Natures Way(650mg caps)
Week 1: 3 @ night
Week 2: 4 @ night
Week 3: 5 @ night
Week 4: 6 @ night
then take at least a 2 week break. The manufacturer suggests 1-2 caps 3x a day w/ meals. But that's more designed for chol. lowering.
Last edited by DR.D; 11-23-2004 at 07:42 PM.
11-23-2004, 07:14 PM
It could act as a mild estrogen, or maybe that's why it works. Some of it is probably converted to DHEA too, I've never really got a good understanding to be honest, it just works and has no sides. It's a health addition, and I think it must stimulate LH. It def. makes your nuts swell better that Trib. at least. Something wierd though, it makes your sweat smell mapley, like syrup. Not a bad thing but it's noticable. I've studied diosgenin many years and still don't have a complete answer for why it should work so well.Originally Posted by Mavs
11-23-2004, 07:31 PM
Did you meanOriginally Posted by DR.D
I will do 5-6 weeks cycles, so i would use it for 5(6) weeks. I wont run tribulus, but i thought to continue fenugreek during PCT, that would make a total of 9-10 weeks.
Then i would cycle off for a month. Is this too long?
So, would it be a better option to run fenugreek the first 3(4) weeks, then pause for the last 2 weeks of the cycle and then restart it for the 4PCT weeks?
11-23-2004, 07:42 PM
Oops, yeah. I'll go back and fix it. 9 weeks is too long. It only seems to work for 3 or 4 consecutive weeks. But it has a bad memory, so you can cycle it fast. 4on/2off seems optimal, but it doesn't hurt you, so try it a few ways till it seems right for you. It's pretty cheap too!Originally Posted by Syr
11-23-2004, 07:51 PM
Guys, my progesterone levels are abit out of range; its a bit high. I have very low libido and could this be a side effect of high progesterone levels? tnx guys
11-23-2004, 08:24 PM
I agree with the basic premise of balanced Progesterone as a counter to excess E, but that author is wrong about Pregnenelone's conversions to mostly E, and that DHEA makes Pregnenelone.
I've also read that the "natural" form of Progesterone is more desireable to use than the Wild Yam Extract, and that it can be an effective site specific cream for application at the prostate, breast and scalp to counter both E and DHT negative effects.
Last edited by Rogue Drone; 11-24-2004 at 11:29 PM.
11-23-2004, 09:05 PM
Yes, it can be a symptom, because like RD just stated in the post above yours, prog counters DHT too. So libido can be adversely affected.Originally Posted by armz_ha
11-24-2004, 11:27 PM
So are you saying progesterone lowers DHT? I heard of others saying it does quite the opposite and that it raises libido...Originally Posted by DR.D
11-24-2004, 11:31 PM
I don't know about Progesterone lowering DHT systematically, what I've read is that Progesterone can block E and DHT by occupying their receptors, they are not attaching to cause problems.
The desired effect with the Hormones is to achieve balance, neither too much or too little of Test, E, DHT, Progesterone, Cortisol, Aldesterone, etc. Each one is either the precursor or the counter to another.
Last edited by Rogue Drone; 11-24-2004 at 11:57 PM.
11-25-2004, 01:55 AM
I have a very infrequent growth of facial hair. Is that a side effect of low DHT? My testosterone levels are great so that can't be the cause. I used to have normal rate of facial hair growth until I did a 4 week cycle of ph's...Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
Where I live I can't seem to get a test for DHT, its not available...
I think I got to drive over to the states to get one done...
03-14-2005, 09:35 PM
I'm considering using a progesterone/beta-sitosterol/saw palmetto cream as an adjunct to my prostate protection vitamin package. Having read all the related threads I have to admit I'm getting confused between what I have read about the relationship between progesterone and E. The article below includes statements such as the following which I question and believe respectively. Any comments and advice would be appreciated.
"Any man over 50 may well choose to use a small amount of transdermal natural progesterone daily to offset the excess estrogens in his blood. Since women commonly use about 25 mg a man could use 12 mg a day"
" Progesterone is a powerful 5-alpha reductase inhibitor."
03-15-2005, 08:23 PM
I'd stay away Dutch, progesterone is a good anti-e but not a "powerful 5-a-reductase inhibitor" It's also suppressive and catabolic. I's stick with stigmasterol, diosgenin, pregnenolone, or DHEA for generalaized 'man' insurance.Originally Posted by Dutchman
03-15-2005, 11:12 PM
Thanks D. I was hoping you'ld check this out and comment. I appreciate your reply. Will do as you suggest.
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