Cycles for Beginners!! please look!

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    There are a lot of posts asking what PH/ injectible one should use for your first cycle and what they should do for PCT, So I thought I would help.




    Pro hormones (PH)
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Halodrol (Hdrol)
    Chemical name: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
    Aromatize? No
    Half life: ~ 12 hours

    Halodrol dosing: 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75(mg/day)
    50mg of Halodrol split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mg) one at dinner time(25mg)
    75mg of Halodrol split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mgx2 = 50mg) one at dinner 25mg)

    Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
    Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
    Even though Halodrol does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


    PCT:
    SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
    Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
    Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/60/30(mg)
    Test booster:
    DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
    Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
    Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
    Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
    Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
    Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


    Possible side from Halodrol:
    Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
    inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
    Toco 8
    Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
    Fish oil @ 5-10g
    Cissus quadrangularis
    Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
    Taurine @ 3-5g
    Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
    Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Acnedren
    Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration



    -----------------------------------------------------------



    Promagnon (pmag)
    Chemical name: 4-Chloro-17a-Methyl-Andro-4-Ene-3,17b-Diol
    Aromatize? No
    Half life: ~ 8- 12 hours

    Pmag dosing: 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75(mg/day)
    50mg Pmag split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mg) one at dinner time(25mg)
    75mg of Pmag split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mgx2 = 50mg) one at dinner 25mg)

    Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
    Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
    Even though Pmag does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


    PCT:
    SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
    Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
    Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/90/30(mg)
    Test booster:
    DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
    Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
    Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
    Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
    Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
    Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


    Possible side from Pmag:
    Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
    inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
    Toco 8
    Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
    Fish oil @ 5-10g
    Cissus quadrangularis
    Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
    Taurine @ 3-5g
    Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
    Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Acnedren
    Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration



    -----------------------------------------------------------



    Epistane (Epi)
    Chemical name: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
    Aromatize? No
    Half life: ~ 6-8 hours

    Epistane dosed @ 30/30/40/40/40/40 or 30/40/40/40/40/40(mg a day)
    30mg Epi split up into three dosings, one in the morning (10mg) one at lunch(10mg)one at dinner time(10mg)
    40mg of Epi split up into three dosings, one in the morning(20mg) one at lunch(10mg) one at dinner(10mg)*
    Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
    Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
    Even though Epi does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.
    Dermacrine is a good topical to run to help with letharagy

    PCT:
    SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
    Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
    Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/60/30(mg)
    Test booster:
    DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
    Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
    Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
    Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
    Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
    Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


    Possible side from Epi:
    Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
    inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
    Toco 8
    Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
    Fish oil @ 5-10g
    Cissus quadrangularis
    Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
    Taurine @ 3-5g
    Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
    Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
    Acnedren
    Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Injectibles
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Test E(enanthate) Test cyp(cypionate)
    Chemical name: 17b-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one
    Aromatize? Yes

    Standard cycle:
    Test (E, Cyp) dosed @ 500mg/week 250mg 2x week pin
    Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD( or ED, If gyno prone)
    Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day (ran through out cycle)
    Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
    Hawthorne berry @ recommended ( blood pressure)
    Saw Palmetto @ recommended (prostate)
    Taurine @ 3-5g/day (back pumps)




    PCT:
    Nolvadex @ 20/20/10/10
    Clomid @ 50/50/25/25
    Aromasin @ 12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 (no need to taper since its a suicide AI)
    DAA @ 3/3/3/3/3/3
    Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day for 6 weeks


    PCT starts times:
    Testosterone Cypionate : 18 days after last injection
    Testosterone Enanthate : 10 days after last injection


    common needle sizes 1"(quad, glutes, shoulders) 1.5"(glutes) 5/8" (Shoulders) needles between 23-25g

    1ml = 1cc

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    What are SERMs?
    Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs) are a class of compounds that act on the estrogen receptor, as you may know during the post cycle phase your body begins to restart it's natural hormone production, most steroid compounds suppress estrogen, therefore during the PCT phase estrogen levels will inevitably increase. Too much estrogen, too soon can lead to estrogenic symptoms such as gynecomastia, weight gain, muscle loss and so on, we obviously want to avoid these at all costs therefore a SERM in PCT is incredibly effective .


    What is an Aromatase Inhibitor?
    There are 2 types of AI's. Type I (suicide inhibitor) attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. Type II compete for the enzyme, but dont destroy it. Both are effective at lowering estrogen substantially. Both are commonly used during both cycling and PCT. Used mainly when low estrogen levels are desired, like contest preparation/cutting. Beware that lowering estrogen with strong AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels and low estrogen levels can lead to sore joints, cause your losing estrogens anti-inflammitory effect. Can also have a negative impact on your libido.



    Threads to take a look at:
    Hair Loss Prevention
    If You Think You Have Gyno: Click Here


    After PCT users are highly recommended to get blood work
    Cheap Bloodwork - How to Get It WITHOUT Insurance

    These are just the most common used compounds for beginners if anyone would like to see other commonly used compounds let me know.

    These are just guide lines to help you build a cycle and PCT, I am not to be held accountable for any side effects, or damage done to your bodies.

    If anyone has questions or sees a problem or would like me to change something let me know! thanks.

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    u should add that the same protocol goes for pmag as hdrol as thats another common starter and id add a diff first cycl for prop
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    nice read
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderHumper View Post
    nice read
    agreed. i ran halo for my first cycle.. got great results
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    I was going to run a cycle of massfire but heard its not a great compound because of the 2 methayls in it. Sd and halovar. What would be in your opinion the least harmful ph or test or whatever. I have everything in check and I need something to gain 15 pounds in 6-8 weeks. Contest. I'm 18 and I know young but I need this. What is safest in your opinion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cg123 View Post
    I was going to run a cycle of massfire but heard its not a great compound because of the 2 methayls in it. Sd and halovar. What would be in your opinion the least harmful ph or test or whatever. I have everything in check and I need something to gain 15 pounds in 6-8 weeks. Contest. I'm 18 and I know young but I need this. What is safest in your opinion?
    You could try primordial performance's new androseries line. if you do a 8 week cycle of andromass+androhard you should have very lean gains. They are non-methylated and claim to have less side effects... They are a bit pricey though
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    Ya. I've thought about it. Just too expensive. Is there anything else out there I'm missing? I've thought about hdrol. But once I get into these prohormones I don't want to **** up my future growth. Also don't really want anything where I have to do a serm
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    Quote Originally Posted by cg123 View Post
    Ya. I've thought about it. Just too expensive. Is there anything else out there I'm missing? I've thought about hdrol. But once I get into these prohormones I don't want to **** up my future growth. Also don't really want anything where I have to do a serm
    You wont gain 15 pounds of primarily lean mass in 8 weeks with anything that wont require a SERM... Even with something as weak as hdrol you still need a serm.. unless you want to be shut down. if you are concerned about stunting your growth or permanently reducing ur natural test, stay away from AAS/PH. Period.
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    Ya for sure I feel you. That's why I'm asking of anything else. I need this 10-15 pounds lean. I eat my diet is all good. But I need a boost. Anything else you would recommend. This is really important and I need to gain as much muscle as I can fast. I am now 18 195 6'1 and have gained about 45 pounds in the last year and so months. So everything else is good
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    I've ran a test, whinny stack before but I'm about too run my first Ph stack I'm using the ams growth reg stack which is 1 andro, 4 ad, decavol, aroma x for pct. Will that be enough Oct or do you think I need more.
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    More.
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    What do you suggest?
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    Thanks for this post! i think it should really help beginners!! hopefully no more flooded "my first hdrol cycle" on the boards lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by arluckydog
    What do you suggest?
    I would suggest the same pct as halodrol, would be fine leave out the inhibit p. Sure many people have run less for pct, but why take the chance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494

    I would suggest the same pct as halodrol, would be fine leave out the inhibit p. Sure many people have run less for pct, but why take the chance.
    I actually enjoyed inhibit p in my Oct and would also suggest liverxt as a liver care product. The l dopa in the inhibit p serves many uses in pct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightbackhxc

    I actually enjoyed inhibit p in my Oct and would also suggest liverxt as a liver care product. The l dopa in the inhibit p serves many uses in pct.
    That's why i put it ... But you know how the kids are that only want to run a test booster for pct, they don't see the importance of everything else and usually have no money. So out of everything inhibit p would be the least important.
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    I forgot to mention the milk thistle. I use that normally anyway. So I've got the aroma x and milk thistle and I have a few clomid left from my test, stan stack few months ago. I appreciate the info bro like I said this is my first Ph stack I'm not new to ass but I am to Ph never completely trusted them to work. The new ones anyway.
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    I hope you weren't implying I ask a childish question? I would really like to stay friendly and polite here no need for all that. Again I appreciate the help. I was asking because it is not supposed to aromatase and is non methylated. Plus the pro hormones are kinda a joke in my circle. Now I think my circle maybe childish a bit for thinking that but we'll see
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    Good work putting this together Gregg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by arluckydog
    I hope you weren't implying I ask a childish question? I would really like to stay friendly and polite here no need for all that. Again I appreciate the help. I was asking because it is not supposed to aromatase and is non methylated. Plus the pro hormones are kinda a joke in my circle. Now I think my circle maybe childish a bit for thinking that but we'll see
    No. But when you ask if you can only run aroma x for pct, it makes me believe you don't know alot about steroids. If you were to tell me what your cycle history was and why you feel using certain products should be used in pct. Then it would look like you knew what you were doing. first impressions are everything hehe.
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    Cool I totally understand that and I am still learning I'd like to think I'll never stop learning. When you do, that's when you have problems. Again I am thankful for the help. Have you ever heard of anyone encountering problems after their cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by arluckydog
    Cool I totally understand that and I am still learning I'd like to think I'll never stop learning. When you do, that's when you have problems. Again I am thankful for the help. Have you ever heard of anyone encountering problems after their cycle?
    I'm still learning to. That's what makes it fun. And what do you mean after pct? Or going into pct?
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    No clomid for hdrol?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa
    No clomid for hdrol?
    Nope, nolva or torem, i still have to add torem...
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    I have some questions:

    1.) If I were to run Test E, for pct I noticed you put up both clomid AND nolva..so do you choose one or the other, or do u actually run them both?

    2.) What are the major differences between Test C and E?

    3.) Would something like AI's cycle/life support be more effective for protection, or are the listed supports for Test E cycle u listed all u truly need??

    Sorry for all the lame questions lol I am trying to learn about Test as much as possible..
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494

    Nope, nolva or torem, i still have to add torem...
    Any reason for that? Was going to run clomid w first hdrol cycle, still have a.lot to learn I guess...
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    Another question: will/can Toco-8 or Propecia keep the hair on my head? I like my hair lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
    I have some questions:

    1.) If I were to run Test E, for pct I noticed you put up both clomid AND nolva..so do you choose one or the other, or do u actually run them both?

    2.) What are the major differences between Test C and E?

    3.) Would something like AI's cycle/life support be more effective for protection, or are the listed supports for Test E cycle u listed all u truly need??

    Sorry for all the lame questions lol I am trying to learn about Test as much as possible..
    1.) If I were to run Test E, for pct I noticed you put up both clomid AND nolva..so do you choose one or the other, or do u actually run them both?
    Run both. If you are wondering why just ask

    2.) What are the major differences between Test C and E?
    The difference between test c(testosterone + cypionate ester) and test e(testosterone + enanthate ester) are the esters/ester length.

    3.) Would something like AI's cycle/life support be more effective for protection, or are the listed supports for Test E cycle u listed all u truly need??
    AI's life support would be great for a cycle. (wasn't trying to promote a single company, even tho I said SNS lol)
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    Awesome thank you. I'll ask then ha, why both clomid and nolva?
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    Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa View Post
    Any reason for that? Was going to run clomid w first hdrol cycle, still have a.lot to learn I guess...
    The reason I did that is because Nolvadex is a much better SERM, what I mean by that is Nolvadex is more effective in actually attaching to the estrogen receptor. While as Clomid is also a SERM, it is slightly less effective at actually acting as a SERM. Clomid is used more to stimulate the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH and LH occurs. By doing this, the result is an elevated endogenous testosterone level.

    Down side to Nolvadex is that it can up reguate the progesterone receptors making Nolvadex a less than ideal PCT choice for progesterone based compounds such as Tren. While Clomid does not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
    Awesome thank you. I'll ask then ha, why both clomid and nolva?
    Ill say the same thing to you as I said to uvawahoowa and If you have any questions feel free to ask.

    The reason I did that is because Nolvadex is a much better SERM, what I mean by that is Nolvadex is more effective in actually attaching to the estrogen receptor. While as Clomid is also a SERM, it is slightly less effective at actually acting as a SERM. Clomid is used more to stimulate the hypophysis to release more gonadotropin so that a faster and higher release of FSH and LH occurs. By doing this, the result is an elevated endogenous testosterone level.

    Down side to Nolvadex is that it can up reguate the progesterone receptors making Nolvadex a less than ideal PCT choice for progesterone based compounds such as Tren. While Clomid does not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
    Another question: will/can Toco-8 or Propecia keep the hair on my head? I like my hair lol
    Toco 8 is a very good vitamin E supplement and should be effective at keeping hair/slowing shedding and thickening existing hair. Toco 8 can also be ran year round.
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    Bookmarked...thanks for putting this together. Will likely run something off this list in a few months.
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    I'm impressed your pretty knowledgeable on this subject
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    [QUOTE=gregg1494;3634748]T

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Epistane (Epi)
    Chemical name: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol / 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol
    Aromatize? No


    Standard Cycle:
    Epistane dosed @ 30/30/40/40/40/40 or 30/40/40/40/40/40(mg a day)
    cycle assist @ recommended

    Could throw in liver support even tho many cycle assists have it. Liv52(which I would recommend) or Milk thistle

    *even though epistane does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.

    PCT:
    Serm: Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Torem (Toremifene Citrate) NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Nolvadex @ 20/20/20/20 or 20/20/10/10 (don't need to taper but you can If you want)(doses are in mg a day)
    Test booster: most commonly used is DAA run 1 week past end of nolvadex or torem, dosed at 3g ED(everyday)
    Aromatase Inhibitor: Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1(those are in caps per day and weeks are seperated by "/") Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100 ( that is in mg , if it is Formasurge or Formeron just use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM, it can also be Forma Stanzol)


    *Prolactin related gyno is still possible in PCT(rare) but if you ran a product for prolactin during cycle it is highly recommended you run through PCT.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    I'm doing my research regarding Epistane which I'm interested in running, but i will take for only 4 weeks as it's my 1st cycle, based on your info which is very interesting i have some questions:
    - I will be running Epistane with Nolvadex (20/20/10/10) although i was only able to find Nolva 20mg each...what should i do?
    - Please take a look at my cycle and give me your suggestions:
    Wk 1-4 epi (how many mg/week?)
    Wk 5-8 Nolva (20/20/10/10)
    wk 4-8 Daa (3mg everyday)
    Erase pro (please recommend when should i start)
    Inhibit-P (please recommend when to start and how many caps)

    Really appreciate if i could get some comments.
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    What about sus 300 for a beginner... As in I have no clue about anything lol.... I'm trying to learn but this is fat more complicated than I had ever expected.
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    If there tabs and you don't want to split them no big deal, you can run 20/20/20/20

    Honesty I would go no less then 5 weeks. I know with beginners there concern is side effects. But unless you are dosing high or running longer you should be just fine. Of you were to run a 4 week cycle I would go 30/40/40/40 or if you think you can 30/40/40/50. If 5 weeks 30/40/40/40/40

    Start daa (3g)day one of pct and run till one week after end of nolva.

    Start erase pro week 3 of pct and run one week past end of daa. Run 1 cap a day

    Run inhibit p 2 caps a day from day one of pct. if you can afford it run during cycle too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith139
    What about sus 300 for a beginner... As in I have no clue about anything lol.... I'm trying to learn but this is fat more complicated than I had ever expected.
    age? height? weight? lifting experience?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494

    age? height? weight? lifting experience?
    I'm 25 6'5 202 9.5-10% body fat. As far as lifting experience goes I'm real into cardio based lifting like crossfit and supersets mainly because I'm a firefighter and that Is what I need. but over the last 6 months my cardio is amazing but my strength and overall appearance has seemed to take a pause. I have even started counting calories.... Every single one of those little bastards lol
  

  
 

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