Cycles for Beginners!! please look!

[hvactech]

I'm about to start taking decabolic.. I wanna make my arms bigger and fast what can I do...?

troll

[herderdude]

I'm about to start taking decabolic.. I wanna make my arms bigger and fast what can I do...?

I recommend what I always recommend. Heavy back squats.

[gregg1494]

The injectable cycle has two things added for no reason what so ever, inhibit p and taurine. Also if the exeme is legit 12.5mg ed would tank estro. Also 6.25ed for exeme is far superior. Also if you run the exeme at 6.25mg ed for the 4 weeks as nolva and clomid not only would the extra two weeks not be necessary also you could down the nolva to 20/20/10/10.

Also for the first inject you can run test p at the end at 50-100mg eod at the end of test e/c up to 3 days before pct to practice proper pinning technique and make a more seamless transition to pct.

Explaination on why inhibit p and taurine should not be there? and do you have bloods to show that? Lots of people run 12.5ED and have no problem. Thanks for the input.

[jbryand101b]

Explaination on why inhibit p and taurine should not be there? and do you have bloods to show that? Lots of people run 12.5ED and have no problem. Thanks for the input.

Inhibit p has a place on any cycle.

But I don't use taurine.

[gregg1494]

What do you know about Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone)? I'm also interested in turinabol.

Have you ran any previous cycles? What are your goals?

And what are you looking to learn about those two compounds?

[Celorza]

What do you know about Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone)? I'm also interested in turinabol.

Great strength gains, little to no mass gains (diet dependent but it is not a bulker if that matters to you), horrible sides. High BP, back pumps, shin/calf pumps, moderate to high hepatotoxicity , lethargy and some of my friends reported sort of mind fog on it too. Not for the weak or inexperienced oral user.

[GoliathOnline]

Gregg - thank you very much for this information, this thread has answered many s question for me. I am aiming to go on a beginner PH cycle and will be choosing Helladrol or ProMag35 as my PH. I have read that running low doses of MK & GW SARMS during pct can help keep gains, strength, and endurance. Just a few questions on which of these supps would be best to use on cycle vs pct vs throughout. I have put my thoughts/guess to the right of each one.

Transaderm - cycle
Forma - both (last 2 weeks of cycle and full 6 weeks of pct)
Paragon - pct
Creatine Nitrate - both
N2guard - cycle
N2Slin - both
Toco8 - both
Swoll-N - pct (or ditch?)
Ultima - pct
Hemavol - pct
OT Multi - both
Krill Oil - both
Aegis - pct
Lean Xtreme - pct
Reduce XT - cycle
Posiedon NT Sleep Aid - both
Nolva or Clomid - pct (was originally going to do Clomid but it seems nolcs is superior for mild PH)
GW+MK SARMS - low dose (5mg and 12.5mg respectively) on pct through 'bridge' period.

theres a lot of redundancy with the above which is why I would wanted some input. I read that some preworkouts should be ditched when using ph as they can possibly interfere with the ph? Any truth to that? This is why I hold off on everything but creatine nitrate in terms of a pre energy/no2 supp. I have read to use them if lethargy kicks I and you need an extra boost to get to the gym.

i am a 5:30am gym kind of guy, hence the nimbus sleep aid to maximize my sleep and rest, should the PH still be taken at first wake up or wait until after my workout and post shake&meal?

sorry for the lengthy post and bunch of questions. I got most if these supps in a bulk but from a friend at a severe discount hence the redundancy and randomness to it all.

[da_tank55]

Have you ran any previous cycles? What are your goals?

And what are you looking to learn about those two compounds?

Previous prohormone cycles and currently running a Msten/Havoc/Trenazone cycle. Probably will be my last ph cycle since I want to do my first Test-C cycle in December with my buddy. The reason I'm interested in an oral because I'm looking for something to kickstart with. In regard to halotestin, I just want to try it in the future=) I don't really want to do dbol. I like Turinabol and I can get my hands on Methyl-1-test but what do you think?

[Celorza]

Previous prohormone cycles and currently running a Msten/Havoc/Trenazone cycle. Probably will be my last ph cycle since I want to do my first Test-C cycle in December with my buddy. The reason I'm interested in an oral because I'm looking for something to kickstart with. In regard to halotestin, I just want to try it in the future=) I don't really want to do dbol. I like Turinabol and I can get my hands on Methyl-1-test but what do you think?

If you are going for size, I don't see why use Fluoxymesterone at all...use SD , Dzine , Anadrol or somethng else as your kicker...Fluoxy is meant for strength gains.

[da_tank55]

If you are going for size, I don't see why use Fluoxymesterone at all...use SD , Dzine , Anadrol or somethng else as your kicker...Fluoxy is meant for strength gains.

Yeah I wouldn't use halotestin as a kicker, I just wanted some more info on because its something I want run in the future. I can get anadrol pretty easy, may be something to look into.

[l1fterp1nk]

My buddy is dumb and about to hop into a extreme DMZ cycle without any knowledge of what the term SERM even means! This being said I told him I would try to help him out with a solid cycle! He will be dosing as the bottle recommends. Should he run the same PCT and on cycle support supplements as Hdrol?

[l1fterp1nk]

As one would with Hdrol I meant to say?

[Rook222]

Can you replace the epi with hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/100 and be good to go?

Just doing some research and was wondering if anyone can break the numbers down for me, what they mean, and how to read them. Thanks! Feel like it may be easier to follow these posts if I could figure that out...

[l1fterp1nk]

Just doing some research and was wondering if anyone can break the numbers down for me, what they mean, and how to read them. Thanks! Feel like it may be easier to follow these posts if I could figure that out...

I believe 50/75 and so on would mean for the first week you would use 50mg a day of Hdrol then then second week you would use 75mg a day.

[gregg1494]

Just doing some research and was wondering if anyone can break the numbers down for me, what they mean, and how to read them. Thanks! Feel like it may be easier to follow these posts if I could figure that out...

I believe 50/75 and so on would mean for the first week you would use 50mg a day of Hdrol then then second week you would use 75mg a day.

Yup, the numbers are the dosage, usually in mg. They are per week, and the weeks are seperated by the slash.

[cookie1]

I love youuuuu a million likes for this one!!

[rajan_kauai]

I noticed you didnt include Stano as an on cycle libido booster etc...
What would you recommend for a straight bulk, with IIFYM flexible dieting style. Between epi and H-drol? I find a lot of conflicting information on both as they are versatile compounds.

[gregg1494]

I noticed you didnt include Stano as an on cycle libido booster etc...
What would you recommend for a straight bulk, with IIFYM flexible dieting style. Between epi and H-drol? I find a lot of conflicting information on both as they are versatile compounds.

honestly you couldn't go wrong with either. But im going to say Hdrol.

[rajan_kauai]

honestly you couldn't go wrong with either. But im going to say Hdrol.

Thanks bro!
If you don't mind me asking, why is that, and in your opinion what brand is the best? I mean I figure out the general reason, but in your opinion. I see that H-drol will probably give more of that wet wet, and epi the dryer lean gains.

[gregg1494]

Thanks bro!
If you don't mind me asking, why is that, and in your opinion what brand is the best? I mean I figure out the general reason, but in your opinion. I see that H-drol will probably give more of that wet wet, and epi the dryer lean gains.

It is slightly more "wet" of a compound than epi, but will you notice the difference, probably not. The reason I recommended Hdrol is because from what I've seen dosing is easier in determining the right dosage for the individual. And side effects also seem to be easier on people.

[rajan_kauai]

It is slightly more "wet" of a compound than epi, but will you notice the difference, probably not. The reason I recommended Hdrol is because from what I've seen dosing is easier in determining the right dosage for the individual. And side effects also seem to be easier on people.

I agree 100%... Seeing that icant find CEL H-drol ANYWHERE, what brand/version do you recommend?

[rajan_kauai]

It is slightly more "wet" of a compound than epi, but will you notice the difference, probably not. The reason I recommended Hdrol is because from what I've seen dosing is easier in determining the right dosage for the individual. And side effects also seem to be easier on people.

I agree 100%... Seeing that icant find CEL H-drol ANYWHERE, what brand/version do you recommend?

[rajan_kauai]

It is slightly more "wet" of a compound than epi, but will you notice the difference, probably not. The reason I recommended Hdrol is because from what I've seen dosing is easier in determining the right dosage for the individual. And side effects also seem to be easier on people.

Agreed 100%... I cant fid CEL H-drol ANYWHERE! Since thats the case what brand/version would you recommend?

[00S4Boy]

3 Reposts??? 20 minutes apart

[rajan_kauai]

3 Reposts??? 20 minutes apart

Bahaha my bad guys, my iphones wiggin out an spent the last hour loading this page and I see I replied 3 times

[gregg1494]

Bahaha my bad guys, my iphones wiggin out an spent the last hour loading this page and I see I replied 3 times

Its all good. Haha.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[rajan_kauai]

Recommend anything for lethargy other than Stano?

[ucmuscle]

Test is da best!

[gregg1494]

Recommend anything for lethargy other than Stano?

If your running hdrol lethargy shouldn't be a problem.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[pyrobatt]

If your running hdrol lethargy shouldn't be a problem.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

At 100mg+ it can be.

[gregg1494]

At 100mg+ it can be.

I dont think hes going 100+ thats why I said it. -.-

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[rajan_kauai]

I dont think hes going 100+ thats why I said it. -.-

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

Only planning on 50/50/75/75/75/75 If sides are manageable then i'll bump it to 100 maybe last two weeks. And thank you by the way for the great thread, really really good information in here, even for my first pinning cycle after i run Hdrol. Definitely be revisiting. Since i was debating going straight to the big guns or opting to see how my body reacts to an artificial hormone coming in. Taking a page right out of te OPs book, and running the suggested H-drol cycle, I will be running LGI H-drol 25 (opinions?) with CEL cycle assist, Hawthorn berry, and either Liv.52 OR TUDCA. Pct will be ran with Clomid at 50/50/25/25, Erase, and Tribuplex750.

Should be seeing A\\\\\\\ kinds of gains. Hoping to put on anywhere from 8-12 lbs after PCT.
Will be logging my progress once i get all my goodies. And some lab rat research chems.

[Bodock]

Even at 75 mg I see pretty severe lethargy from H-drol.....

[gregg1494]

Even at 75 mg I see pretty severe lethargy from H-drol.....

Yep that's possible. Like always side effects differ from person to person.

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[eddie409]

There are a lot of posts asking what PH/ injectible one should use for your first cycle and what they should do for PCT, So I thought I would help.




Pro hormones (PH)
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Halodrol (Hdrol)
Chemical name: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
Aromatize? No
Half life: ~ 12 hours

Halodrol dosing: 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75(mg/day)
50mg of Halodrol split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mg) one at dinner time(25mg)
75mg of Halodrol split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mgx2 = 50mg) one at dinner 25mg)

Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
Even though Halodrol does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


PCT:
SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/60/30(mg)
Test booster:
DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


Possible side from Halodrol:
Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
Toco 8
Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
Fish oil @ 5-10g
Cissus quadrangularis
Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
Taurine @ 3-5g
Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Acnedren
Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration



-----------------------------------------------------------



Promagnon (pmag)
Chemical name: 4-Chloro-17a-Methyl-Andro-4-Ene-3,17b-Diol
Aromatize? No
Half life: ~ 8- 12 hours

Pmag dosing: 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75(mg/day)
50mg Pmag split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mg) one at dinner time(25mg)
75mg of Pmag split up into two dosings, 1 in the morning (25mgx2 = 50mg) one at dinner 25mg)

Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
Even though Pmag does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


PCT:
SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/90/30(mg)
Test booster:
DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


Possible side from Pmag:
Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
Toco 8
Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
Fish oil @ 5-10g
Cissus quadrangularis
Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
Taurine @ 3-5g
Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Acnedren
Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration



-----------------------------------------------------------



Epistane (Epi)
Chemical name: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol
Aromatize? No
Half life: ~ 6-8 hours

Epistane dosed @ 30/30/40/40/40/40 or 30/40/40/40/40/40(mg a day)
30mg Epi split up into three dosings, one in the morning (10mg) one at lunch(10mg)one at dinner time(10mg)
40mg of Epi split up into three dosings, one in the morning(20mg) one at lunch(10mg) one at dinner(10mg)*
Cycle support and/or TUDCA @ 4 hours after first dose and 4 hours before second dose.
Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
Even though Epi does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.
Dermacrine is a good topical to run to help with letharagy

PCT:
SERM: Pick one. NO SERM NO CYCLE!
Clomid (Clomiphene)@ 50/50/25/25(mg)
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) @ 20/20/10/10(mg)
Torem (Toremifene Citrate) @ 90/60/60/30(mg)
Test booster:
DAA @ 3g/day for 6 weeks starting day one of PCT
Aromatase Inhibitor (AI): Pick one
Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1
Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100(mg)
Formasurge @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM
Formeron @ use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM


Possible side from Epi:
Loss of Libido (Taking Tribulus, Fadogia or Horny Goat Weed help with Libido)
inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Hair Thinning (Especially those prone to hair loss)
Toco 8
Sore Joints (Fish Oil helps with sore joints)
Fish oil @ 5-10g
Cissus quadrangularis
Back Pumps (Taurine helps with back pumps)
Taurine @ 3-5g
Acne (Typically on arms/back etc)
Inhibit P @ 2caps/day
Acnedren
Increased aggression, migraines, shrunken testicles, sleep pattern alteration

----------------------------------------------------------
Injectibles
----------------------------------------------------------

Test E(enanthate) Test cyp(cypionate)
Chemical name: 17b-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one
Aromatize? Yes

Standard cycle:
Test (E, Cyp) dosed @ 500mg/week 250mg 2x week pin
Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD( or ED, If gyno prone)
Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day (ran through out cycle)
Fish oil @ 5-10g/day
Hawthorne berry @ recommended ( blood pressure)
Saw Palmetto @ recommended (prostate)
Taurine @ 3-5g/day (back pumps)




PCT:
Nolvadex @ 40/40/20/20
Clomid @ 100/50/50/25
Aromasin @ 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 (no need to taper since its a suicide AI)
DAA @ 3/3/3/3/3/3
Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day for 6 weeks


PCT starts times:
Testosterone Cypionate : 18 days after last injection
Testosterone Enanthate : 14 days after last injection


common needle sizes 1"(quad, glutes, shoulders) 1.5"(glutes) 5/8" (Shoulders) needles between 23-25g

1ml = 1cc

-----------------------------------------------------------
What are SERMs?
Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERMs) are a class of compounds that act on the estrogen receptor, as you may know during the post cycle phase your body begins to restart it's natural hormone production, most steroid compounds suppress estrogen, therefore during the PCT phase estrogen levels will inevitably increase. Too much estrogen, too soon can lead to estrogenic symptoms such as gynecomastia, weight gain, muscle loss and so on, we obviously want to avoid these at all costs therefore a SERM in PCT is incredibly effective .


What is an Aromatase Inhibitor?
There are 2 types of AI's. Type I (suicide inhibitor) attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. Type II compete for the enzyme, but dont destroy it. Both are effective at lowering estrogen substantially. Both are commonly used during both cycling and PCT. Used mainly when low estrogen levels are desired, like contest preparation/cutting. Beware that lowering estrogen with strong AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels and low estrogen levels can lead to sore joints, cause your losing estrogens anti-inflammitory effect. Can also have a negative impact on your libido.



Threads to take a look at:
Hair Loss Prevention
If You Think You Have Gyno: Click Here


After PCT users are highly recommended to get blood work
Cheap Bloodwork - How to Get It WITHOUT Insurance

These are just the most common used compounds for beginners if anyone would like to see other commonly used compounds let me know.

These are just guide lines to help you build a cycle and PCT, I am not held accountable for any side effects, or damage done to your bodies.

If anyone has questions or sees a problem or would like me to change something let me know! thanks.

Is it possible to die from all the pills cause I heard that the pct doesnt always work

[macdady]

Is it possible to die from all the pills cause I heard that the pct doesnt always work

You have got to be the most dedicated trolls ever

[Matthersby]

You have got to be the most dedicated trolls ever

Mac, I need you on this troll hunt.

[Armbender]

Great post

OP, it would be nice to see on the 1st post, the strengths of the ph, ie, for size/strength/cut

And maybe a good list of stacks with non methyls

[McCrew530]

Is it possible to die from all the pills cause I heard that the pct doesnt always work

Yes it is your liver can go into liver cirrhosis and you can also mess up your endocrine system so bad that it will leave you sterol and you can have achene so bad that your skin starts to melt check this out bud here are some common side effects from gear and when i mean common they happen to everyone if you even take one halodrol pill this will happen I mean it stay away from this stuff it will kill you
acne
gyno
And other bad things can happen
and here is an article about a kid that killed him self
Teenager used steroids to bulk up... but within weeks he was dead - Mirror Online

[macdady]

Mac, I need you on this troll hunt.

I shall get my bow hahaha... this guy just makes me laugh