Cycles for Beginners!! please look!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by LostSoldier View Post
    Great post. Just started my first cycle, Test E 400. Looks almost identical to your post other than im using adex instead.
    adex is ok for on cycle, just don't use during pct.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    There are a lot of posts asking what PH/ injectible one should use for your first cycle and what they should do for PCT, So I thought I would help.

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Pro hormones (PH)
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Halodrol (Hdrol)
    Chemical name: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol
    Aromatize? No

    Standard Cycle:
    Halodrol dosed @ 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75(mg a day)
    Cycle assist @ recommended

    Could throw in liver support even tho many cycle assists have it. Liv52(which I would recommend) or Milk thistle

    *even though Halodrol does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


    PCT:
    Serm: Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Torem (Toremifene Citrate) NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Nolvadex @ 20/20/20/20 or 20/20/10/10 (don't need to taper but you can If you want)(doses are in mg a day)
    Test booster: most commonly used is DAA run 1 week past end of nolvadex or torem, dosed at 3g ED(everyday)
    Aromatase Inhibitor: Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1(those are in caps per day and weeks are seperated by "/") Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100 ( that is in mg , if it is Formasurge or Formeron just use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM, it can also be Forma Stanzol) No need to taper erase since it is a suicide AI.


    *Prolactin related gyno is still possible in PCT(rare) but if you ran a product for prolactin during cycle it is highly recommended you run through PCT.



    -----------------------------------------------------------



    Promagnon (pmag)
    Chemical name: 4-Chloro-17a-Methyl-Andro-4-Ene-3,17b-Diol
    Aromatize? No

    Standard Cycle:
    Pmag dosed @ 50/50/75/75/75/75 or 50/75/75/75/75/75 or could start off with a 5 week cycle 50/75/75/75/75(mg a day)
    Cycle assist @ recommended

    Could throw in liver support even tho many cycle assists have it. Liv52(which I would recommend) or Milk thistle

    *even though Pmag does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.


    PCT:
    Serm: Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Torem (Toremifene Citrate) NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Nolvadex @ 20/20/20/20 or 20/20/10/10 (don't need to taper but you can If you want)(doses are in mg a day)
    Test booster: most commonly used is DAA run 1 week past end of nolvadex or torem, dosed at 3g ED(everyday)
    Aromatase Inhibitor: Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1(those are in caps per day and weeks are seperated by "/") Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100 ( that is in mg , if it is Formasurge or Formeron just use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM, it can also be Forma Stanzol) No need to taper erase since it is a suicide AI.


    *Prolactin related gyno is still possible in PCT(rare) but if you ran a product for prolactin during cycle it is highly recommended you run through PCT.



    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Epistane (Epi)
    Chemical name: 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol / 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol
    Aromatize? No


    Standard Cycle:
    Epistane dosed @ 30/30/40/40/40/40 or 30/40/40/40/40/40(mg a day)
    cycle assist @ recommended

    Could throw in liver support even tho many cycle assists have it. Liv52(which I would recommend) or Milk thistle

    *even though epistane does not aromatize gynecomastia(gyno) is still concern. Prolactin related gyno is still possible(rare) Inhibit-P by SNS will prevent this, If used run 2 caps a day through cycle.

    PCT:
    Serm: Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) or Torem (Toremifene Citrate) NO SERM NO CYCLE!
    Nolvadex @ 20/20/20/20 or 20/20/10/10 (don't need to taper but you can If you want)(doses are in mg a day)
    Test booster: most commonly used is DAA run 1 week past end of nolvadex or torem, dosed at 3g ED(everyday)
    Aromatase Inhibitor: Erase dosed 0/0/3/3/2/1(those are in caps per day and weeks are seperated by "/") Formastane dosed @ 0/0/200/200/100/100 ( that is in mg , if it is Formasurge or Formeron just use the needed pumps for it to be the mg dosage and split in AM and PM, it can also be Forma Stanzol) No need to taper erase since it is a suicide AI.


    *Prolactin related gyno is still possible in PCT(rare) but if you ran a product for prolactin during cycle it is highly recommended you run through PCT.



    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Injectibles
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Test E(enanthate) Test cyp(cypionate)
    Chemical name: 17b-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one
    Aromatize? Yes

    Standard cycle:
    Test (E, Cyp) dosed @ 500mg/week 250mg 2x week pin
    Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD( or ED, If gyno prone)
    Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day (ran through out cycle)
    Fish oil @ 3 a day
    Hawthorne berry @ recommended ( blood pressure)
    Saw Palmetto @ recommended (prostate)

    *If joints are sore or inflamed from AI up fish oil to 6 a day, or can use joint supplement.


    PCT:
    Nolvadex @ 40/40/20/20(mg a day,per week)
    Clomid @ 100/50/50/25(mg a day, per week)
    Aromasin @ 0/0/12.5/12.5/12.5/12.5 (no need to taper since its a suicide AI)
    DAA @ 3/3/3/3/3/3 (3g a day)
    Inhibit-P @ 2 caps a day for 6 weeks


    * PCT starts times:
    Testosterone Cypionate : 18 days after last injection
    Testosterone Enanthate : 14 days after last injection


    *common needle sizes 1"(quad, glutes, shoulders) 1.5"(glutes) 5/8" (Shoulders) needles between 22-25g



    These are just the most common used compounds for beginners if anyone would like to see other commonly used compounds let me know.

    These are just guide lines to help you build a cycle and PCT, I am not held accountable for any side effects, or damage done to your bodies.

    If anyone has questions or see a problem or would like me to change something let me know! thanks.
    What's the suggested torem dose with an hdrol cycle going up to 100mg ed?
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  3. Been reading my big anabolics edition book trying to learn as mich as possible.

    Can you help me answer why Nolva would or would not be recommended while on cycle? Hepatoxity, prolonged use of it on cycle and pct, etc.... Just curious

  4. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa

    What's the suggested torem dose with an hdrol cycle going up to 100mg ed?
    90/60/60/30

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Red9
    Been reading my big anabolics edition book trying to learn as mich as possible.

    Can you help me answer why Nolva would or would not be recommended while on cycle? Hepatoxity, prolonged use of it on cycle and pct, etc.... Just curious
    Sorry I didn't mention a couple things. Cycle being Test E and Nolva instead of Aromasin, why can't u substitute?
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Red9
    Been reading my big anabolics edition book trying to learn as mich as possible.

    Can you help me answer why Nolva would or would not be recommended while on cycle? Hepatoxity, prolonged use of it on cycle and pct, etc.... Just curious
    Hepatoxicity is a possibility with any drug. Nolvadex can reduce IGF-1. But im pretty sure that was women with breast cancer. So I don't know how much of an effect it would have with a man on steroids, considering steroids raise IGF-1. Nolva is just for stopping estrogen from binding at the breast. It doesn't lower over all estrogen, that's what an AI is for. I think it may be more of bro science, but I don't know. I'm going to do some research, so keep a look out for a PM.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Red9

    Sorry I didn't mention a couple things. Cycle being Test E and Nolva instead of Aromasin, why can't u substitute?
    Look at previous post, it should answer your question.

  8. F*CK MILK THISTLE!!!!!!

  9. Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman
    F*CK MILK THISTLE!!!!!!
    That's why i don't recommend it haha. But some people still do so i put it any way.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494

    Hepatoxicity is a possibility with any drug. Nolvadex can reduce IGF-1. But im pretty sure that was women with breast cancer. So I don't know how much of an effect it would have with a man on steroids, considering steroids raise IGF-1. Nolva is just for stopping estrogen from binding at the breast. It doesn't lower over all estrogen, that's what an AI is for. I think it may be more of bro science, but I don't know. I'm going to do some research, so keep a look out for a PM.
    Alright brutha. From what I know, Tamoxifen Citrate does block overall estrogen, but specifically is most effective in keep estrogen from binding to the breast tissue and is the main reason for it's use in females with breast cancer. I'm gunna go out on a limb to say it would be effective in using during a test E cycle for estrogen blocking qualities, but at what doses would it be effective? Again I'm not 100% positive, but pretty sure..

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
    Alright brutha. From what I know, Tamoxifen Citrate does block overall estrogen, but specifically is most effective in keep estrogen from binding to the breast tissue and is the main reason for it's use in females with breast cancer. I'm gunna go out on a limb to say it would be effective in using during a test E cycle for estrogen blocking qualities, but at what doses would it be effective? Again I'm not 100% positive, but pretty sure..
    Nolvadex, however, is not the most potent ancillary compound we can use on a cycle, but it is probably the safest considering it doesn't actually reduce estrogen in your body keeping some estrogen floating around could have many benefits on muscle growth, as well. Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (4). Many bodybuilders actually use this stuff during their cycle for the health benefits provided by it. If, however, you are preparing for a bodybuilding contest, you need to use something which will suck most (if not all) of the estrogen out of your body. I am speculating that you may be able to use Nolvadex for the majority of a contest prep cycle, to keep yourself relatively healthy, and then switch over to Letrozole for the last 8 weeks.

    I guess bodybuilders do use nolvadex on cycle, according to this information
    Article Nolvadex - Steroid .com

    Like I said, not running Nolvadex during cycle may have been bro science. Im going to be doing research on this.

  12. Nolvadex lowers estrogen in higher doses. Just a nuget of information I've read before. Thought I'd share.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman
    Nolvadex lowers estrogen in higher doses. Just a nuget of information I've read before. Thought I'd share.
    Care to share article?

  14. "Unlike Arimidex and femara, Nolvadex does not act as an anti-aromatize drug, but rather acts as an estrogen antagonist. This drug will not prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. It will only fight it at the receptor level. This right here goes to show why drugs like Arimidex and femara are far more superior drugs to use during a cycle than Nolvadex."

  15. Hey guys, new member here. Im trying to learn more about prohormones and I have some questions. Just to clarify, I would not even consider taking PH until Im much more educated than I am now. First off Im 37 yo, 6ft 2in, 230 probably high teens BF%. I have one year lifting experience, Im currently running a 4 day a week upper/lower split, about 15 sets per session.

    1: Are PH recommended for someone with my lifting experience?

    2: Would I have to drastically change my routine to alot more volume and intensity? How would I need to change it.

    3: Is there any alternative, like natural test boosters that actually work?

    Please feel free to offer any opinions/advice. thanks.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by benjammin5150 View Post
    Hey guys, new member here. Im trying to learn more about prohormones and I have some questions. Just to clarify, I would not even consider taking PH until Im much more educated than I am now. First off Im 37 yo, 6ft 2in, 230 probably high teens BF%. I have one year lifting experience, Im currently running a 4 day a week upper/lower split, about 15 sets per session.

    1: Are PH recommended for someone with my lifting experience?

    2: Would I have to drastically change my routine to alot more volume and intensity? How would I need to change it.

    3: Is there any alternative, like natural test boosters that actually work?

    Please feel free to offer any opinions/advice. thanks.
    Honestly If you have been training seriously for a year at your age you could get away with a PH, Its more recommend for someone in there early 20s to train longer because they will get more out of it since their hormones are higher.

    Not necessarily, do what ever is working for you. That being said, volume and or intensity have been shown to give good results. You are going to have to find what works best for you, that may take 1,2 or even 5 years.

    Yes there are, and that's what I would recommend you do first. I don't like to see anyone with little experience jump into a PH. At your age you should see some noticeable differences. Take a look at DAA and Erase.

  17. How come you can run aromasin into PCT but not Dex?

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Zeppelin215 View Post
    How come you can run aromasin into PCT but not Dex?
    Adex is not good for pct because it is a type II AI, it will not destroy the enzyme. So there will be estrogen rebound once you discontinue use. Aromasin is a type I (suicide AI),it attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. so there is no chance of estrogen rebound.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    Adex is not good for pct because it is a type II AI, it will not destroy the enzyme. So there will be estrogen rebound once you discontinue use. Aromasin is a type I (suicide AI),it attaches to the aromatase enzyme and permanently disables it. so there is no chance of estrogen rebound.


    So long as you taper down from Adex you should have no estrogen re-bound.


    Also ....I would be reluctant to use Aromasin as I wouldn't want to permanently hinder my estrogen production.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman View Post
    So long as you taper down from Adex you should have no estrogen re-bound.


    Also ....I would be reluctant to use Aromasin as I wouldn't want to permanently hinder my estrogen production.
    Your going to experience SOME estrogen rebound no matter how much you taper.

    And kid, where do you get your info. Because that doesn't even make sense. How would it pertinently hinder your production of estrogen? It only destroys the aromatase enzyme, which converts androgens into estrogens.

  21. gregg, if you run Aromasin into PCt why use erase also? Would too much of a AI be a bad thing?

  22. one or the other, and yes there are side effects to over dosing. That goes for anything.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    Your going to experience SOME estrogen rebound no matter how much you taper.

    And kid, where do you get your info. Because that doesn't even make sense. How would it pertinently hinder your production of estrogen? It only destroys the aromatase enzyme, which converts androgens into estrogens.

    Wouldn't that mean you can no longer produce an excess amount of estrogen? IE-If you use it to the extent your estrogen is low to a un-healthy degree....wouldn't it not be able to come back to a healthy degree? That's what I'm referring too. I guess you can call it abusing it or just mis-dosing it.


    If I'm wrong I stand corrected.



    also....how old are you?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman

    Wouldn't that mean you can no longer produce an excess amount of estrogen? IE-If you use it to the extent your estrogen is low to a un-healthy degree....wouldn't it not be able to come back to a healthy degree? That's what I'm referring too. I guess you can call it abusing it or just mis-dosing it.

    If I'm wrong I stand corrected.

    also....how old are you?
    Haha no you will still produce estrogen. Its just that estrogen spikes during pct. Yes, lowering estrogen to much with AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels and low estrogen levels can lead to sore joints, cause your losing estrogens anti-inflammitory effect. Can also have a negative impact on your libido. But you will not crush estrogen to that low of a degree, since it is already spiking. Your estrogen will come back, as your body begins to produce test again your body will make estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. And im 18 kid =)

  25. Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    Haha no you will still produce estrogen. Its just that estrogen spikes during pct. Yes, lowering estrogen to much with AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels and low estrogen levels can lead to sore joints, cause your losing estrogens anti-inflammitory effect. Can also have a negative impact on your libido. But you will not crush estrogen to that low of a degree, since it is already spiking. Your estrogen will come back, as your body begins to produce test again your body will make estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. And im 18 kid =)



    Anyone who barely got pubes around their balls looks retarded calling anyone kid.


    But anyways.....thanks for the info. I stand corrected. WooOooOOoo I learned something NEW today.
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