Time to cut! need opinions.

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    Time to cut! need opinions.


    Hi AM, this is my first thread. I just got off pct from a 6 week hdrol cycle. I went for an all out bulk and gained 25 pounds and kept 24 of them. I gained considerable amount of fat though and want to cut in a few Weeks. Should I do a Clen only cycle or wait until I can cycle another oral like epi again. of course the goal is to keep as much muscle as possible. Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats
    Hi AM, this is my first thread. I just got off pct from a 6 week hdrol cycle. I went for an all out bulk and gained 25 pounds and kept 24 of them. I gained considerable amount of fat though and want to cut in a few Weeks. Should I do a Clen only cycle or wait until I can cycle another oral like epi again. of course the goal is to keep as much muscle as possible. Thoughts?
    Why not just use your diet and see where that gets you?
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    Well of course diet is key to both bulking and cutting but we're all trying to get an edge, that's why we use. Nobody wants to lose hard earned muscle on a cut, especially after a cycle where it's already easy to lose gains with hormones and everything else trying to reach homeostasis again, hence the assistance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats
    Well of course diet is key to both bulking and cutting but we're all trying to get an edge, that's why we use. Nobody wants to lose hard earned muscle on a cut, especially after a cycle where it's already easy to lose gains with hormones and everything else trying to reach homeostasis again, hence the assistance.
    If you just got off cycle then you have not taken the proper time off cycle before starting another. You should br able to cut properly without PH's
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    If you just got off cycle then you have not taken the proper time off cycle before starting another. You should br able to cut properly without PH's
    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I'm ignorant concerning my body or steroids. In my first post I asked if I should wait until I can cycle steroids again (time on + pct) or just use clen. My question remains, clen only, an oral like epi, or maybe both?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    Just because I'm new here doesn't mean I'm ignorant concerning my body or steroids. In my first post I asked if I should wait until I can cycle steroids again (time on + pct) or just use clen. My question remains, clen only, an oral like epi, or maybe both?
    Why would you have to wait to start a cut until you can use steroids. If you can't cut properly without them then you are not at the point where you should be using them at all IMO.
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    Idk why you bulked and are now going to an immediate cut. You will probably want to bulk after your "cut". How much bodyfat did you gain from your bulk vs muscle gained?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Why would you have to wait to start a cut until you can use steroids. If you can't cut properly without them then you are not at the point where you should be using them at all IMO.
    I'm trying to be patient with you here man. I never said I needed steroids or clen to cut. I have had several successful bulks and cuts without cycling in the past. However, there is such a thing as a "cutting cycle." Perhaps you haven't heard of it. The purpose of using anabolics in a cut is to preserve more muscle mass than would be preservable without hormonal assistance. The purpose of clen is to broncho-dilate and stimulate the CNS. I'm trying to be a cool guy, thinking that perhaps you were posting comments to help me, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly you haven't contributed anything here my man. You're pretty much being a prick, and I haven't given you any reason to. Seriously dude, you came in here with an attitude from the very first post and I don't know why.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2 View Post
    Idk why you bulked and are now going to an immediate cut. You will probably want to bulk after your "cut". How much bodyfat did you gain from your bulk vs muscle gained?

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    I'm being sincere asking this, not a smartass. Isn't the usual cycle of bodybuilding bulk-cut bulk-cut? I don't think it's abnormal for me to want to cut after a bulk. Perhaps I should have made this clearer, I'm not looking for immediate results and there is no sense of urgency in the air. I'm waiting until my body is recovered from my last cycle to start slowly cutting away. Honestly I'm not sure how much fat I gained. I don't have calipers. I'm not a fatass or anything, but my waist went up 2 inches and I can only see a faint outline of my top four abs. My strength shot up enormously though, and so did my chest legs and arms as far as size goes. I seem to respond really well to mid/lower dose hdrol compared to other people I've seen post who seem to not get that much from it.
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    What they're saying, boss, is that it looks for all the world like you ate a bagillion and a half calories on cycle, and that perhaps if you dropped down to a reasonable amount of calories, you'd lean right out. No clen, no juice. Just food.
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/230377-13-weeks-rps.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    I'm trying to be patient with you here man. I never said I needed steroids or clen to cut. I have had several successful bulks and cuts without cycling in the past. However, there is such a thing as a "cutting cycle." Perhaps you haven't heard of it. The purpose of using anabolics in a cut is to preserve more muscle mass than would be preservable without hormonal assistance. The purpose of clen is to broncho-dilate and stimulate the CNS. I'm trying to be a cool guy, thinking that perhaps you were posting comments to help me, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Honestly you haven't contributed anything here my man. You're pretty much being a prick, and I haven't given you any reason to. Seriously dude, you came in here with an attitude from the very first post and I don't know why.
    The only one with an attitude here is you. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine, if you had such "successful" cuts you wouldn't need steroids. I understand the point of clen and PH's for a cut but with proper diet you should be able to cut with natty supps and a good diet. If you just came off cycle then there is a certain amount of time required before you cycle again, I think its ridiculous that you find yourself holding off on your cut until you are recovered for your next cycle, if you can't progress without steroids then you can't progress at all. Feel free to get upset cuz this isn't what you want to hear.
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    Depends too on the amount of calories you were consuming during your bulk. Did you go 500 or 1500 calories above maintenance? Your body will fight back to bring you to original weight. If you just eat a little cleaner now, you should be able to shed a few pounds. Tweek your diet little by little.
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    Quote Originally Posted by herderdude
    What they're saying, boss, is that it looks for all the world like you ate a bagillion and a half calories on cycle, and that perhaps if you dropped down to a reasonable amount of calories, you'd lean right out. No clen, no juice. Just food.
    thanks for that explanation man. I didn't realize it sounded like that. I'm not just some noob looking for the easy way out. Because there is no easy way out,even with assistance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    The only one with an attitude here is you. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine, if you had such "successful" cuts you wouldn't need steroids. I understand the point of clen and PH's for a cut but with proper diet you should be able to cut with natty supps and a good diet. If you just came off cycle then there is a certain amount of time required before you cycle again, I think its ridiculous that you find yourself holding off on your cut until you are recovered for your next cycle, if you can't progress without steroids then you can't progress at all. Feel free to get upset cuz this isn't what you want to hear.
    No, just no. You don't know me or the level of success of my past cuts. In a natty cut, you expect to lose some muscle and strength unless you're a gentic freak regardless of how good your cut is. And that is successful for natty. In an anabolic cut, you gain strength and possibly even have a recomp effect depending on how keyed in diet is. That is successful for a steroid cut. You are trying to argue with me and I see no reason for it. I'm not being confrontational, and I'm making educated rebuttals. I don't know what your deal is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riskyb
    Depends too on the amount of calories you were consuming during your bulk. Did you go 500 or 1500 calories above maintenance? Your body will fight back to bring you to original weight. If you just eat a little cleaner now, you should be able to shed a few pounds. Tweek your diet little by little.
    I didn't go crazy with cals or anything, but I ate usually 750-1000 over maintenance or something. And yeah, I kept cals high during pct to keep as much gains as possible and I'm slowly ramping down to around maintenance now. I expect to shed a few pounds in the next couple weeks or so hopefully! I'm just kind of weary about going lower too fast since I'm not really sure how solidified my gains from the cycle are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    No, just no. You don't know me or the level of success of my past cuts. In a natty cut, you expect to lose some muscle and strength unless you're a gentic freak regardless of how good your cut is. And that is successful for natty. In an anabolic cut, you gain strength and possibly even have a recomp effect depending on how keyed in diet is. That is successful for a steroid cut. You are trying to argue with me and I see no reason for it. I'm not being confrontational, and I'm making educated rebuttals. I don't know what your deal is.
    There was no "deal" until you got upset when you didn't here what you wanted and decided to call someone who was trying to help a "prick." If you can't handle the opinions of others then you shouldn't ask for them.

    It seems that you rely on steroids to make progress and use them as a crutch to avoid tweaking your diet to make progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    No, just no. You don't know me or the level of success of my past cuts. In a natty cut, you expect to lose some muscle and strength unless you're a gentic freak regardless of how good your cut is. And that is successful for natty. In an anabolic cut, you gain strength and possibly even have a recomp effect depending on how keyed in diet is. That is successful for a steroid cut. You are trying to argue with me and I see no reason for it. I'm not being confrontational, and I'm making educated rebuttals. I don't know what your deal is.
    Amongst the most ignorant posters I've seen on here. Just because you type long words and repeat things you've read doesn't mean it's an educated rebuttal.
    The overwhelming majority is telling you to tweak your diet before starting an anabolic and seeing how your body reacts. You don't have to be a genetic freak to lose fat and keep muscle whilst not on anabolics. Why not adjust your diet slowly and after you reach "homeostasis" like you stated before it might be a good time to start or decide what to do. I see where you are wanting to not lose muscle man but why not listen to what experienced users have to say? Why post and argue with every opinion that does not match your own?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    There was no "deal" until you got upset when you didn't here what you wanted and decided to call someone who was trying to help a "prick." If you can't handle the opinions of others then you shouldn't ask for them.

    It seems that you rely on steroids to make progress and use them as a crutch to avoid tweaking your diet to make progress.
    Hey, I do apologize for calling you a prick. To me it seemed like you were being argumentative rather than constructive. Maybe I got the wrong impression. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the suggestions, just trying to see why that's the consensus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    It seems that you rely on steroids to make progress and use them as a crutch to avoid tweaking your diet to make progress.
    ^this is why its the consensus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    Hey, I do apologize for calling you a prick. To me it seemed like you were being argumentative rather than constructive. Maybe I got the wrong impression. And I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the suggestions, just trying to see why that's the consensus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jraw

    Amongst the most ignorant posters I've seen on here. Just because you type long words and repeat things you've read doesn't mean it's an educated rebuttal.
    The overwhelming majority is telling you to tweak your diet before starting an anabolic and seeing how your body reacts. You don't have to be a genetic freak to lose fat and keep muscle whilst not on anabolics. Why not adjust your diet slowly and after you reach "homeostasis" like you stated before it might be a good time to start or decide what to do. I see where you are wanting to not lose muscle man but why not listen to what experienced users have to say? Why post and argue with every opinion that does not match your own?
    I don't think I've been ignorant. and yes, knowledge comes from things we read, and educated people tend to use better vocabulary. Yes, I am tweaking my diet and will continue to do so. I do understand what you're saying about cutting, and I agree. I will be lowering to maintenance and losing weight before I add in any substances if I even do. I don't think I was clear on my intentions. I don't wan't help my whole cut, that's childish. I don't need a crutch to cut fat and keep muscle right now. When I drop into lower bodyfat though, many weeks from now, it will become increasingly harder. Which is when I was considering adding clen or Anabolics. That is what I've between trying to get at. I'm in no hurry to jump into another cycle currently. Maybe that is why I'm being called ignorant? If not please tell me so I can correct what I'm doing or apologize. Hopefully this can put us on the same page in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    ^this is why its the consensus.
    I'm sorry if that is how I made it seem. No, I fully intend on cracking down on diet way before adding any substances in. I'm not just trying to take steroids or a stimulant to magically make the fat go away or the muscles grow. Of course it's all in diet and training. Maybe my response to jraw can clear things up between us if you want to read that. My intent is not to wait until I can cycle again to begin cutting. I don't need a compound to assist me at the level I am at now, we're strictly talking about possible future situations with body fat much lower when adding in compounds. Besides, clen isn't even as helpful unless body fat is already sort of low is my understanding.
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    I believe it is why people are freaking out. My understanding were that you just finished pct and you're now wanting to start clen to assist your cut. The part that had alarmed me was that you put on 25 pounds and "kept" 24 during pct. reason being most people lose a little water weight? Maybe I'm wrong.
    Anyways when I finished sd I slowly went down in weight easily with minimal dieting and kept all strength and muscle size. You should be able to do the same
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jraw
    I believe it is why people are freaking out. My understanding were that you just finished pct and you're now wanting to start clen to assist your cut. The part that had alarmed me was that you put on 25 pounds and "kept" 24 during pct. reason being most people lose a little water weight? Maybe I'm wrong.
    Anyways when I finished sd I slowly went down in weight easily with minimal dieting and kept all strength and muscle size. You should be able to do the same
    Haha I'm hoping that's all. That's not my intention at all. I surely gained some fat and maybe even muscle in pct too because I kept the cals relatively high. And that's interesting about sd. Usually people say that's one of the harder compounds to keep a lot of gains on afterwards because the cycles are so short and it's a lot of glycogen and water retention. You're telling me you didn't lose any strength? How'd you run it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    Haha I'm hoping that's all. That's not my intention at all. I surely gained some fat and maybe even muscle in pct too because I kept the cals relatively high. And that's interesting about sd. Usually people say that's one of the harder compounds to keep a lot of gains on afterwards because the cycles are so short and it's a lot of glycogen and water retention. You're telling me you didn't lose any strength? How'd you run it?
    Ran it 10/10/20/20 then 30 for a couple days but it seemed pointless. Also ran stano alongside at 600mg a day. Pct was Clomid 100/50/25/25 and yeah kept nearly all strength, and let my body sort of balance out. 175->195 on cycle, then I slowly have gone back down to 180 but I'm 2-3% bf lower than what I was at 175. Look good feel good. Sd makes you a monster man!
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    Just get your diet dialed in to lose a good amount of bodyfat and add clen when you get into single digits IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2
    Just get your diet dialed in to lose a good amount of bodyfat and add clen when you get into single digits IMO

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    That sounds like a solid plan. Single digits or very near is really the only time I would need assistance. Until then it's smooth sailing. I know there are a billion clen threads with everyone arguing about it, but from your experience or knowlesge is clen anti catabolic at dose levels appropriate for human use? I can't seem to find a real answer to this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    That sounds like a solid plan. Single digits or very near is really the only time I would need assistance. Until then it's smooth sailing. I know there are a billion clen threads with everyone arguing about it, but from your experience or knowlesge is clen anti catabolic at dose levels appropriate for human use? I can't seem to find a real answer to this.
    From my experience I didn't notice any loss of strength or size in my muscle mass. Just sweat my ass off 24/7 and jitters got crazy when I was nervous. I love clen runs.

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    Talk to pyrobatt he's really knowledgeable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    The only one with an attitude here is you. You asked for opinions and I gave you mine, if you had such "successful" cuts you wouldn't need steroids. I understand the point of clen and PH's for a cut but with proper diet you should be able to cut with natty supps and a good diet. If you just came off cycle then there is a certain amount of time required before you cycle again, I think its ridiculous that you find yourself holding off on your cut until you are recovered for your next cycle, if you can't progress without steroids then you can't progress at all. Feel free to get upset cuz this isn't what you want to hear.
    This guy if full of ****. Would YOU want to cut natty if you had clen and AAS/PH at your disposal?? F*** No, get down off your high horse and eat something lightweight.
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    Diet is 60-70% of cutting but you already know this, some people even with perfect diet will lose an unacceptable amount of LBM while cutting which is why people turn to chems instead, but you already know this as well, so rather than flaming you ill offer my advice: go for maintenance for 2 weeks just to let your body settle again and get used to a stable routine, then try this for a cut:
    * Week 1 - 6 albuterol/clen (depending on the legality of clen in your country, albuterol is just as effective at 18-24mgs ED)
    * Week 7 - 12 Ostarine and/or Andarine (Dylangemmelli has a really nice thread on it, just google 'dylan ostarine log' and click on the first result) at 25mg ED for the Ostarine & 25-50mg ED for the S4 Andarine

    An ideal cut would be to do the Ostarine (particularly Osta Rx) as part of your pct for hdrol cycle to really maximise your gains and help transition from bulk - maintence - cut without losing any LBM. Alternatively if you're willing to wait (and have the cash) you could try something like this:

    * Week 1 - 6: 40mg Epistane ED (you could try 50mg ED for 1-2 weeks)
    * Week 7 - 10: PCT SERM (i would highly recommend some liquid torem at 90, 60, 60, 30mg ED)
    * Week 7 - 12: Ostarine 25 MG ED
    * Week 7 - 12/13 - 16: S4 Andarine 50MG ED (you could lower this to 25-30mg ED as 50mg ED CAN cause issues with vision at night)
    * Week 7-12/14/16 Albuterol OR Clen at 24mg ED (with week one being 8,12,16,24X4mg ED) OR 80-100mcgs (depending on your tolerance levels) ED

    Anyways man, hope this helps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelaRone

    This guy if full of ****. Would YOU want to cut natty if you had clen and AAS/PH at your disposal?? F*** No, get down off your high horse and eat something lightweight.
    Lolol, I do have it at my disposal. You're an idiot. I'm sorry that you can't progress without AAS which is no better than when kids rely on their supps and use them as a crutch, hell you probably refuse to lift when you aren't on cycle don't you? I never said anything against him cycling, I said he shouldn't use cycles as a crutch, and that he should cut down natty as far as he can before he decides to add in those things. Troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jraw View Post
    Ran it 10/10/20/20 then 30 for a couple days but it seemed pointless. Also ran stano alongside at 600mg a day. Pct was Clomid 100/50/25/25 and yeah kept nearly all strength, and let my body sort of balance out. 175->195 on cycle, then I slowly have gone back down to 180 but I'm 2-3% bf lower than what I was at 175. Look good feel good. Sd makes you a monster man!
    Never tried sd and I never got my hands on any of that sd before the ban! ): Oh well, maybe I'll come across a rogue bottle somewhere down the line. And congrats man, that sounds like an awesome cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lhns2 View Post
    From my experience I didn't notice any loss of strength or size in my muscle mass. Just sweat my ass off 24/7 and jitters got crazy when I was nervous. I love clen runs.

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    I've never done a clen only run and so I guess that was a main motive for even posting this thread. lol you have me excited now (:
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89 View Post
    Diet is 60-70% of cutting but you already know this, some people even with perfect diet will lose an unacceptable amount of LBM while cutting which is why people turn to chems instead, but you already know this as well, so rather than flaming you ill offer my advice: go for maintenance for 2 weeks just to let your body settle again and get used to a stable routine, then try this for a cut:
    * Week 1 - 6 albuterol/clen (depending on the legality of clen in your country, albuterol is just as effective at 18-24mgs ED)
    * Week 7 - 12 Ostarine and/or Andarine (Dylangemmelli has a really nice thread on it, just google 'dylan ostarine log' and click on the first result) at 25mg ED for the Ostarine & 25-50mg ED for the S4 Andarine

    An ideal cut would be to do the Ostarine (particularly Osta Rx) as part of your pct for hdrol cycle to really maximise your gains and help transition from bulk - maintence - cut without losing any LBM. Alternatively if you're willing to wait (and have the cash) you could try something like this:

    * Week 1 - 6: 40mg Epistane ED (you could try 50mg ED for 1-2 weeks)
    * Week 7 - 10: PCT SERM (i would highly recommend some liquid torem at 90, 60, 60, 30mg ED)
    * Week 7 - 12: Ostarine 25 MG ED
    * Week 7 - 12/13 - 16: S4 Andarine 50MG ED (you could lower this to 25-30mg ED as 50mg ED CAN cause issues with vision at night)
    * Week 7-12/14/16 Albuterol OR Clen at 24mg ED (with week one being 8,12,16,24X4mg ED) OR 80-100mcgs (depending on your tolerance levels) ED

    Anyways man, hope this helps!
    holy **** bro, thats a lot of information! hahaha Now THATS how you reply to a thread! Honestly I've never even looked into ostarine or given it any thought. I'll definitely go do some research on it! lol I'm over here still trying to absorb everything you just threw at me. I can't even process that much useful information right now after getting hardly anything but flame the whole thread. lol time to switch gears
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Lolol, I do have it at my disposal. You're an idiot. I'm sorry that you can't progress without AAS which is no better than when kids rely on their supps and use them as a crutch, hell you probably refuse to lift when you aren't on cycle don't you? I never said anything against him cycling, I said he shouldn't use cycles as a crutch, and that he should cut down natty as far as he can before he decides to add in those things. Troll.
    Bro he has a point. And you're making crazy accusations about him and me using aas as a crutch and refusing to lift when not on cycle. what?You don't even know either of us. Even after I cleared it up that I'm not looking to use anything until after I get to lower bodyfat you all of a sudden stop replying to me and still don't answer the simple question that I asked. So all in all, you didn't bring anything at all to this thread besides flame. Now if you decide to share some of your omnipotent almighty wisdom with the rest of us maybe we'll understand your motives. Or your just a troll. yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just a troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats View Post
    holy **** bro, thats a lot of information! hahaha Now THATS how you reply to a thread! Honestly I've never even looked into ostarine or given it any thought. I'll definitely go do some research on it! lol I'm over here still trying to absorb everything you just threw at me. I can't even process that much useful information right now after getting hardly anything but flame the whole thread. lol time to switch gears
    no worries man, i used to write whole papers on dieting and using your metabolic hormones in your brain to your advantage, alot of what i say seems to fall on deaf ears, so i really appreciate the karma man! Ostarine & Andaraine initially came about as an experimental trial to treat people with muscle wasting diseases as a safer alternative to AAS, Andarine was the first but it never hit the mainstream market as it didnt yield favourable results and had its own side effect (temporary night blindess) that occured in several test subjects. Ostarine was supposed to be its successor, but for some reason the research company halted development before it being finalised for public release, however a supplement company has claimed to have ostarine in its product 'osta-rx', and although it seemed sketchy at first, first hand testing from consumers have proven that not only are both products work as intended (though no where as potent as AAS) the best thing about both is that theyre not hormone derived ergo no pct no aromatisation and no negative impact on your liver, which makes them the perfect bridging chemical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89

    no worries man, i used to write whole papers on dieting and using your metabolic hormones in your brain to your advantage, alot of what i say seems to fall on deaf ears, so i really appreciate the karma man! Ostarine & Andaraine initially came about as an experimental trial to treat people with muscle wasting diseases as a safer alternative to AAS, Andarine was the first but it never hit the mainstream market as it didnt yield favourable results and had its own side effect (temporary night blindess) that occured in several test subjects. Ostarine was supposed to be its successor, but for some reason the research company halted development before it being finalised for public release, however a supplement company has claimed to have ostarine in its product 'osta-rx', and although it seemed sketchy at first, first hand testing from consumers have proven that not only are both products work as intended (though no where as potent as AAS) the best thing about both is that theyre not hormone derived ergo no pct no aromatisation and no negative impact on your liver, which makes them the perfect bridging chemical.
    Isn't ostarine suppressive? My understanding is that its only mildly suppressive but still not advised during PCT due to its suppressive nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkubaSteve89
    Diet is 60-70% of cutting but you already know this, some people even with perfect diet will lose an unacceptable amount of LBM while cutting which is why people turn to chems instead, but you already know this as well, so rather than flaming you ill offer my advice: go for maintenance for 2 weeks just to let your body settle again and get used to a stable routine, then try this for a cut:
    * Week 1 - 6 albuterol/clen (depending on the legality of clen in your country, albuterol is just as effective at 18-24mgs ED)
    * Week 7 - 12 Ostarine and/or Andarine (Dylangemmelli has a really nice thread on it, just google 'dylan ostarine log' and click on the first result) at 25mg ED for the Ostarine & 25-50mg ED for the S4 Andarine

    An ideal cut would be to do the Ostarine (particularly Osta Rx) as part of your pct for hdrol cycle to really maximise your gains and help transition from bulk - maintence - cut without losing any LBM. Alternatively if you're willing to wait (and have the cash) you could try something like this:

    * Week 1 - 6: 40mg Epistane ED (you could try 50mg ED for 1-2 weeks)
    * Week 7 - 10: PCT SERM (i would highly recommend some liquid torem at 90, 60, 60, 30mg ED)
    * Week 7 - 12: Ostarine 25 MG ED
    * Week 7 - 12/13 - 16: S4 Andarine 50MG ED (you could lower this to 25-30mg ED as 50mg ED CAN cause issues with vision at night)
    * Week 7-12/14/16 Albuterol OR Clen at 24mg ED (with week one being 8,12,16,24X4mg ED) OR 80-100mcgs (depending on your tolerance levels) ED

    Anyways man, hope this helps!
    I assume you mean mcg for the clen right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beats

    Bro he has a point. And you're making crazy accusations about him and me using aas as a crutch and refusing to lift when not on cycle. what?You don't even know either of us. Even after I cleared it up that I'm not looking to use anything until after I get to lower bodyfat you all of a sudden stop replying to me and still don't answer the simple question that I asked. So all in all, you didn't bring anything at all to this thread besides flame. Now if you decide to share some of your omnipotent almighty wisdom with the rest of us maybe we'll understand your motives. Or your just a troll. yeah, I'm pretty sure you're just a troll.
    OK you want advice. Get your.diet right. Cut down to an acceptable bf% (preferably sub 10%) or close to it. If you find at that point that you NEED AAS to progress further use Epi at recommended dosages as per poster above. I've seen people do up to 60mg but a lot of people complain about joint pain with epi (I've never used so Idk) If you decide to use clen (which I don't advise) then I would start at 20mcg and slowly work up as you assess your tolerance to it. (Or do what works for you idc either way because it isn't my problem). Have a proper post cycle after the epi, poster above recommended torem but I would use clomid personally because of its effectiveness at restoring HPTA.

    I am a proponent of using proper diet to make as much progress as possible unless you are a physique/bbing competitor as you don't really need it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    I assume you mean mcg for the clen right?
    You assume correct my good man
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