Holiday cutter ideas

[Nullifidian]

Many people go the bulking route during the holidays. I myself would personally like to stem the tide of incoming obesity with a cutting cycle. So here's my idea so far...


Compounds used during the course of the cycle:
M4OHN
MDHT
TriMax
Clenbuterol
Lean XTreme
Guggulbolic Extreme
L-Tyrosine
ECA (ephedrine HCL, Caffeine, aspirin)

Here's how it will go-

Weeks 1-6
M4OHN
MDHT

Weeks 2-3
TriMax
clenbuterol

Weeks 4-8
Lean XTreme
Guggul
L-Tyrosine
ECA


Dosages:
M4ohn - 32mg ED. 4 even doses. 8AM, noon, 4PM, 8PM.
MDHT - 50mg ED. 4 even doses. 8AM, noon, 4PM, 8PM. Inital reports show that this doesn't have the same pre-workout stimulatory effects as M5AA does. That's the reasonf ro the split dose.

Clenbuterol (mcg): 40, 80, 120, 140, 160, 160, 160, 160, 160, 160, 120, 80, 60, 40
TriMax (mg): 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2

Lean XTreme: 100mg upon waking, 50mg at noon, 50mg evening
Guggul: Unsure
L-Tyrosine: Unsure
ECA: 25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin - 3 times daily taken morning, noon, evening


btw, PCT begins week 7 and will be Nolva and I'll give Clomid a shot again. I hated the emotional effect Clomid had on me the last time I took it, but on paper at least it has too many benefits for kickstarting production again that I can't ignore.

 

[THEBRAKES]

i am curious about the consensus on the guggul - does a person develop a tolerance to it such that it needs to be cycled? virtually everything seems to, but i just dont know with guggul....also has anyone used it with success in a manner that can single it out as effective? i am considering adding it to a 2-on 2-off clen-only cutter.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

I tend to lean toward the light bulking diets, through the winter. I never make it a goal to become a pig by my own vilition. Let me know how it pans out N, I'm going to wait and try the "New One" if it sees light.

 

[Nullifidian]

Personally I'd like some suggestions for dosing on Tyrosine and Guggul.

 

[Longdog]

You will definitely lose muscle if you run trimax/clen with only M4OHN & MDHT. Neither is anabolic enough to avoid muscle wasting. I ran trimax alone alone with M4OHN & I could not believe how fast the weight came off. In 2 weeks, it was like 10lbs with a lot of strength loss. The only androgen I've had success with while on trimax is M1t. I suggest a more powerful androgen if you want to maintain muscle on this stack.

Use the Tyrosine & Guggul for when you come off Tri-max. They are good to get the thyroid going again to avoid a rebound effect. I didnt use either on my 1st trimax run & gained a little fat back when I came off.

 

[intrepid]

Personally I'd like some suggestions for dosing on Tyrosine and Guggul.

Can't say for sure on the guggul, but the tyrosine should be run @ ~2-5g/day.

 

[Nullifidian]

You will definitely lose muscle if you run trimax/clen with only M4OHN & MDHT. Neither is anabolic enough to avoid muscle wasting. I ran trimax alone alone with M4OHN & I could not believe how fast the weight came off. In 2 weeks, it was like 10lbs with a lot of strength loss. The only androgen I've had success with while on trimax is M1t. I suggest a more powerful androgen if you want to maintain muscle on this stack.

Use the Tyrosine & Guggul for when you come off Tri-max. They are good to get the thyroid going again to avoid a rebound effect. I didnt use either on my 1st trimax run & gained a little fat back when I came off.

1) What dose did you use of M4OHN?
2) What was your dosing schedule like?


MDHT does not appear to be a pure stimulant like M5AA as originally thought, at least from the first reports coming in. It seems more for lean mass. I have some 1AD around; I might consider using it for perhaps 4 weeks but I'd rather save it for a different cycle.

 

[TheManGuy]

It all looks good, but I'd say drop the trimax.

Just up your cardio and you don't need to worry about losing muscle.

 

[Nullifidian]

It all looks good, but I'd say drop the trimax.

Just up your cardio and you don't need to worry about losing muscle.

This whole cutting phase revolves around the TriMax, so that would really make this whole experiment pointless.

 

[Enigma76]

What about adding in mdien as well? Do like 10mg mdien, 24mg m4ohn per day, and 50mg mdht preworkout? I know about the liver, take some proliver tabs from primaforce (1g NAC 600mg milk thistle).

I've heard many good success stories with mdien for trimax. If you are an endo, you might need to go higher with the trimax (3 caps a day during the peak) as endos seem to be less effected by it. Also do like 2 days less of 2mg in the beginning (do 4mg two extra). Just the pyramiding down is the real important part.

 

[Nullifidian]

Yes I'm an endo, but I'm only 5' 6.5"

Currently I'm 210 pounds. I would estimate I'm over 15% bodyfat though at this point.

Back in August I was 175 at 8% bodyfat (yes, I gained about 17 or so pounds of lean mass between then and now).

In any case, I'm not a huge tall dude, nor am I ridiculously heavy. I'm short and stocky.


I dunno about MDIEN. I've heard that it has progesteronal activity. I have a VERY bad reaction to progesterone. High progesterone gives me terrible mood swings that are nearly unbearable. That's why I can't take any 19nor compounds. That's also why M4OHN interested me; it theoretically has very slight anti-progesterone activity.

 

[chasec]

What about adding in mdien as well? Do like 10mg mdien, 24mg m4ohn per day, and 50mg mdht preworkout? I know about the liver, take some proliver tabs from primaforce (1g NAC 600mg milk thistle).

dear god. why would you put your liver throught that when some 1-test could hold it's own? i'd love to see some liver values after you run all that for 6 weeks.

 

[Nullifidian]

I'm not going to run the MDIEN. I really haven't heard enough positives to even think about it.

The only reason I'm going with 2 methyls here is because neither is really that toxic. M4OHN is the least liver toxic of any methyl I've read about, and reports of MDHT point to a similar level of low toxicity (not quite as low, but low nonetheless). MDIEN on the other hand is supposedly pretty friggin toxic, especially in higher doses.


Yet another reason for this stack is it's lack of suppression. MDHT is virtually non-suppressive and M4OHN has shown to have very little suppression. Even at 6 weeks, I'm hoping I won't be too suppressed.

 

[R6Speed]

Were did you find that MDHT is non-suppressive? Over at Avant Labs forum a member Lost Metal ran it at 75mg a day and stated that he felt suppression after 3-4 days. Here is a link to the log -> .

I will be running a cutting cycle beginning in just over a month. For me it will be a light dose of T3 and a 1-test/4AD/MDHT stack. I have used M4ohn, starting at 12mgs and going up to 40mg ed. I did gain some weight, but I just don't think it is that strong.

 

[Nullifidian]

Felt suppression? I don't like to go by feelings, I like to go by the data the East Germans had on it. You know, clinical trials and actual tests done on testosterone levels.

DHT itself is non-suppressive. MDHT acts in a VERY similar fashion and as such all the clinical data suggests it being barely suppressive.

 

[Enigma76]

dear god. why would you put your liver throught that when some 1-test could hold it's own? i'd love to see some liver values after you run all that for 6 weeks.

Sure. Refer to the following and draw your own conclusions.

http://forums.1fast400.com/?showtopic=3380

"This last cycle was 6 weeks - 7mgs MD/day with 4Derm transdermal (6 sprays twice daily) for the first 4 weeks. At the end of week three I started M4OHN at 16mgs/day for the last three weeks (stopping 4Derm after week 4). I supp'd with Pro-Liver, R-ala as well as a good multi and Vit E. ALT value was 69 and AST was 64. Normal is 0-50, so I am slightly elevated, and this after a pretty intense 6 week cycle." <= This is afew days after coming off all PH.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14582&page=2&pp=30&highlight=mdien

"After a week at 10mg/day and anywhere between 600mg-1800mg of R-ALA per day, depending on how many carbs I eat that day.
AST 63; ALT 74; LDH 239; Cholesterol 106; HDL 29.4;ALB 3.9; TBIL 1.0; DBIL 0.2; ALP 65; GGT 11
Liver enzymes are down a lot since adding an assload of R-ALA." <= This is within a 6 week cycle, I think he bumped it to this dosage aroudn the middle.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18523&highlight=mdien

Speaks about SS' experience with m4ohn also.

 

[Enigma76]

And that first reference, to break it down because it is written poorly, was assumed to mean that he was on mdien for the full 6 weeks but only 4 weeks of 4ad.

 

[Buc4Life04]

You will definitely lose muscle if you run trimax/clen with only M4OHN & MDHT. Neither is anabolic enough to avoid muscle wasting. I ran trimax alone alone with M4OHN & I could not believe how fast the weight came off. In 2 weeks, it was like 10lbs with a lot of strength loss. The only androgen I've had success with while on trimax is M1t. I suggest a more powerful androgen if you want to maintain muscle on this stack.

Use the Tyrosine & Guggul for when you come off Tri-max. They are good to get the thyroid going again to avoid a rebound effect. I didnt use either on my 1st trimax run & gained a little fat back when I came off.

So how did you run yours with M1T What about first 3 weeks with M1T then last 3 weeks mohn mdht. As far as anabolics.
Or what about 1,4 andro mohn mdht for all six weeks?

 

[Nullifidian]

I tried searching as hard as I could but I could not for the life of me ever find ANY suggested dosages for Guggul.

Does ANYONE know what the suggested dosages are for TriMax PCT?

 

[Longdog]

So how did you run yours with M1T What about first 3 weeks with M1T then last 3 weeks mohn mdht. As far as anabolics.
Or what about 1,4 andro mohn mdht for all six weeks?

I ran 2 trimax caps/day with 20mg M1t & 300mg 4ad/day. I lost considerable fat & actually gained about 3lbs. It was not water weight, I was also taking letro to avoid that.

I know M1t will kick trimax's ass, but switching to M4ohn may work, I've never tried it that way. I ran M4ohn at 24mg w/ 2 trimax caps & it had no muscle saving effects. I burned thru muscle fast. I came off the trimax, added 1-test/4ad & spent the next 4 weeks gaining it back.

I don't think you want to take trimax for 6 weeks though. I'd say 3 weeks is the longest you should run it. That's another reason whey M1t is ideal to stack with it.

 

[Nullifidian]

Read the timing again:

Weeks 1-6
M4OHN
MDHT

Weeks 2-3
TriMax
clenbuterol

Weeks 4-8
Lean XTreme
Guggul
L-Tyrosine
ECA

TriMax is run for 2 weeks, so is clen. TriMax is run in the second and third weeks. The reason I wait a week is because I want to give the androgens a little time to kick in. Also, it's 32mg not 24. Plus I will be dosing once every 4 hours. From what Sledge and Dr. D. have said, M4OHN will not do much of anything unless you split up the dose into 4-6 per day because its halflife is so bloody short.


So what would be the suggected dose for Guggul?

 

[DemonicPrime]

I ran 2 trimax caps/day with 20mg M1t & 300mg 4ad/day.

Did the 4ad combat the lethargy from both trimax and m1t? I did 10mg M1T and same amount of trimax and I was dead to the world until about 4pm. Slept great though :frustrate

 

[Strateg0s]

I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe someone mentioned this, but if you are going to use clen, do not taper it down, that is worthless. Ramp it up more slowly, depending on how you react to it. Once it takes too much to feel results, just stop it.

 

[Nullifidian]

I crash when I come off clen without ramping down.

 

[Longdog]

Did the 4ad combat the lethargy from both trimax and m1t? I did 10mg M1T and same amount of trimax and I was dead to the world until about 4pm. Slept great though :frustrate

I had nothing other than the usual m1t lethargy, not sure if trimax causes lethargy too. The 4ad helps, but the first 2-3 days were rough. After that, no problems at all. I can't imagine how bad m1t would be alone, I've always run it w/ 4ad.

 

[Nullifidian]

Yeah, so, what is the suggested dosage for Guggulbolic??

 

[Nullifidian]

So I suppose I'll try something like 60mg ED of Guggul

 

[Nullifidian]

Revised some stuff. Here's the plan:

Week 1:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)

Week 2:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
Clenbuterol - 40, 80, 120, 160, 160,160, 160 (160 is my previously established max tolerance)
TriMax - 2mg, 2mg, 2mg, 4mg, 4mg, 4mg, 4mg

Week 3:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
Clenbuterol - 160, 160, 160, 160, 120,80, 40
TriMax - 4mg, 4mg, 4mg, 2mg, 2mg, 2mg, 2mg

Week 4-6:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 7:
40mg Nolvadex
150mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 8:
40mg Nolvadex
100mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 9:
20mg Nolvadex
50mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 10:
20mg Nolvadex
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

I'll be taking chellated potassium along with the clen to help with cramping, and will continue the extra potassium a week after finishing the clen (clenbuterol takes about a week to fully clear the system).


Fun starts on Monday.

 

[evol]

does the m4ohn does have to be that high when running it with trimax? i'm planning on doing a trimax/clen cycle with m4ohn as the anabolic... but it seems to get lots of mixed reviews and the dosaging recommendations are not consistent... anywhere from 8mg to 32mg. can anyone give me some insight on this?

 

[THEBRAKES]

Revised some stuff. Here's the plan:

Week 1:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)

Week 2:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
Clenbuterol - 40, 80, 120, 160, 160,160, 160 (160 is my previously established max tolerance)
TriMax - 2mg, 2mg, 2mg, 4mg, 4mg, 4mg, 4mg

Week 3:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
Clenbuterol - 160, 160, 160, 160, 120,80, 40
TriMax - 4mg, 4mg, 4mg, 2mg, 2mg, 2mg, 2mg

Week 4-6:
100mg ED MDHT (split into 4 doses)
32mg ED M4OHN (split into 4 doses)
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 7:
40mg Nolvadex
150mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 8:
40mg Nolvadex
100mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 9:
20mg Nolvadex
50mg Clomid
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

Week 10:
20mg Nolvadex
60mg ED Guggulbolic Extreme
3g ED L-Tyrosine
200mg Lean XTreme (100mg morning, 50mg noon, 50mg night)
ECA 3xED (25mg ephedrine HCL, 200mg Caffeine, 81mg aspirin)

I'll be taking chellated potassium along with the clen to help with cramping, and will continue the extra potassium a week after finishing the clen (clenbuterol takes about a week to fully clear the system).


Fun starts on Monday.

you know syntrax is the one guggul product that was PROVEN to be bullshit? (i've not seen any others tested)http://labelclaimstesting.com/?pageID=13

maybe send it back and get some dymatize. then at least you might have a CHANCE of getting results from it.

i dont know how you're not going to lose gobs of muscle on this stack. all that fat-burning (clen, triac, eca) and no real test? i would watch my strength REALLY closely and adjust as needed if i started to see it fall.

 

[Syr]

It all looks good, but I'd say drop the trimax.

I second that!

 

[Nullifidian]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21617

All cycle logs go in the cycle log forum. So that's where I put my results.

To all those who dissed Trimax saying I should not have taken it, I have actually gained muscle on this cycle.