Orals: single dosing vs. spreadout

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    Orals: single dosing vs. spreadout


    Wanted to start a post to get some definitive (or closest to it), intelligent opinions/perspectives on the concept of single dosing orals in a day versus spreading the doses out. I've read sensible opinions on both sides.

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    What's the half life of the compound in question? Are you looking for stable levels or a spike? Are there certain side effects (positive/negative) that make dosing certain times of the day beneficial or less hindering? And more. Too vague of a question in my opinion. Needs clarification of what the oral is and what goals are.
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    my sides are way worse with a single dose
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    What's the half life of the compound in question? Are you looking for stable levels or a spike? Are there certain side effects (positive/negative) that make dosing certain times of the day beneficial or less hindering? And more. Too vague of a question in my opinion. Needs clarification of what the oral is and what goals are.
    this^^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    this^^^^
    Jesus Christ guys. The question is simple. i'm not askin' about one particular compound. i've read opinions on both sides of this argument; no matter what orals are in question. Yes, the question is meant to be vague and simple--not specific to a certain anabolic. Some people say take all your orals at once which lessens testicular shutdown and some say to take throughout the day based on the half-life. Just wanted to get a full thread devoted to this subject to see what seems best.
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    it depends on the compounds half life and if you can handle the sides, you want a definitive answer , you really need to be more specific. i.e lets say your doing SD at 20mgs a day , imo is take one(10mgs)in the moring and one about (10mgs)8-10hrs later , if its "on" a work out day id take my second dose about an hour before my session, if you train in the am id take about an hour that session. 8-10hrs later my second dose.
    What ph are you interested in? Every compound is different.
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    For example: 1AD made me very sleepy so I took it before bed. MDHT gave me a nice psyche boost shortly after taking so I took pre workout.

    If your wondering more about suppression, again depends on the compound but anything worth taking is going to shut you down regardless.
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    thx for replies. not referring to any compounds specifically. Duchaine, Llewelyn, and a member of this board share the commonality of dosing your orals once per day versus spread out. the opinions of these guys did not concern half-lives of compounds--just simply to dose orals all at the same time each day. their reasoning was to achieve the greatest peak blood levels and they also suggested it would reduce suppression. Again, they were NOT concerned with different compounds, whether it be D-bols, SD, winny, whatever--just pop em all at once, once per day. Just made me stop n think since 90% of folks say to pop based on half-life.
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    Do they also suggest dosing test enanthate monthly to get spikes? lol

    Typically you want anabolic compounds at as close to constant concentration as feasible.

    Again, depends on the compound, but for what it sounds like you're looking for the answer would be: take things like Superdrol throughout the day; taking it all at one time will shut you down just as much as staggering.

    If you are going to waste any time and money on these orals, IMHO, you just just run them along with a nice testosterone cycle and worry about suppression after your carefully prepared PCT is finished. If it's worth doing it's worth doing right a wise man one told me, a thousand times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    Do they also suggest dosing test enanthate monthly to get spikes? lol

    Typically you want anabolic compounds at as close to constant concentration as feasible.

    Again, depends on the compound, but for what it sounds like you're looking for the answer would be: take things like Superdrol throughout the day; taking it all at one time will shut you down just as much as staggering.

    If you are going to waste any time and money on these orals, IMHO, you just just run them along with a nice testosterone cycle and worry about suppression after your carefully prepared PCT is finished. If it's worth doing it's worth doing right a wise man one told me, a thousand times.
    beating my head against a wall...........nevermind
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    Typically you want anabolic compounds at as close to constant concentration as feasible.
    If I'm looking at this too simplistically, someone chime in.

    Each substance has a 1/2 life in the body. This is the time it takes for the concentration of the substance to decrease by 1/2. Thus, the higher the concentration, the faster the body is metabolizing the compound. By shooting for a more steady concentration, you are essentially maximizing the concentration over time (the area under the curve if you plotted concentration vs. time).

    Maybe there is a reason for maximizing blood concentration, but you would also be maximizing the rate your body is getting rid of the compound (unless it's rate limited for some reason).
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcolm777b View Post
    If I'm looking at this too simplistically, someone chime in.

    Each substance has a 1/2 life in the body. This is the time it takes for the concentration of the substance to decrease by 1/2. Thus, the higher the concentration, the faster the body is metabolizing the compound. By shooting for a more steady concentration, you are essentially maximizing the concentration over time (the area under the curve if you plotted concentration vs. time).

    Maybe there is a reason for maximizing blood concentration, but you would also be maximizing the rate your body is getting rid of the compound (unless it's rate limited for some reason).
    yeah, i think that's basically what the people, on the side of taking all your pills at once, are making. thx for that suggestion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    yeah, i think that's basically what the people, on the side of taking all your pills at once, are making. thx for that suggestion.
    Actually, I think you said that backwards, unless you're referring to my statement, "maybe there is a reason for maximizing blood concentration".

    There could definitely be a reason, ie. receptor binding being increased by increased blood concentration, but now you introduce variables such as binding affinity, and that is compound specific. Just so you know, I'm just postulating at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by malcolm777b View Post
    Actually, I think you said that backwards, unless you're referring to my statement, "maybe there is a reason for maximizing blood concentration".

    There could definitely be a reason, ie. receptor binding being increased by increased blood concentration, but now you introduce variables such as binding affinity, and that is compound specific. Just so you know, I'm just postulating at this point.
    ya, just wanted to get some dialogue goin about this topic. just interested to see what people think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Wanted to start a post to get some definitive (or closest to it), intelligent opinions/perspectives on the concept of single dosing orals in a day versus spreading the doses out. I've read sensible opinions on both sides.
    I think it is better to spread the dose so you get steady levels of "X" compound... also you need to know whats the half life of the compound, and then based on that look at the dose to determine how long it will stay in your system and therefore still being optimal... the problem with single doses is that of course it should be dosed high, all at once, and seeing that orals are fast acting it can cause more stress... JMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Jesus Christ guys. The question is simple. i'm not askin' about one particular compound. i've read opinions on both sides of this argument; no matter what orals are in question. Yes, the question is meant to be vague and simple--not specific to a certain anabolic. Some people say take all your orals at once which lessens testicular shutdown and some say to take throughout the day based on the half-life. Just wanted to get a full thread devoted to this subject to see what seems best.
    the vague and simple answer is "it depends"
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpmartyr View Post
    Do they also suggest dosing test enanthate monthly to get spikes? lol

    Typically you want anabolic compounds at as close to constant concentration as feasible.

    Again, depends on the compound, but for what it sounds like you're looking for the answer would be: take things like Superdrol throughout the day; taking it all at one time will shut you down just as much as staggering.

    If you are going to waste any time and money on these orals, IMHO, you just just run them along with a nice testosterone cycle and worry about suppression after your carefully prepared PCT is finished. If it's worth doing it's worth doing right a wise man one told me, a thousand times.
    overall I agree, but so far as I've seen, the primary benefit to trying to keep a relatively constant level is that once you are shut down a more steady overall androgen level leaves you feeling better. But if you are running something like testosterone in the background that keeps at a more or less constant level of androgens (at least above baseline normal levels) I think dosing orals all at once is better.
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    You may be right. May also depend on the compound as well. Do I want a continuous steady level to keep promoting growth or a peak concentration near workouts to promote strength or aggression etc. /shrug
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    It doesn't matter, just do whatever you want. Making a bigger deal out of this than it has to be.
    Try dosing a cycle each way, then decide what you like better.

    Simple.
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    I agree with jbryand.
    and we all respond differently
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    Question then what is the half life of Hdrol I been thinking of doing split doses on my current run but worried about insomnia if I take second dose to late in day
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    half life for hdrol is about 12hrs.
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    A low dose first thing in the morning could help with suppression. It would need to be fairly low and the cycle should be kept short.

    If already on cycle, a single dose of another compound pre-workout may make sense (stano or ment)

    Transdermals are pretty cool in that a single morning dose has a built in time release.

    Otherwise, for most "normal" cycles I'd take the compound over 2 or 3 three doses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    beating my head against a wall...........nevermind
    Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black to me.

    It does matter for reasons beyond half life and suppression.

    Some orals trigger accute hypertension, body sweats, rapid heart rate, aggression and or insomnia.

    Additionally, if you would like more 'discussion" on the topic quit becoming so irritated when people don't reply the way you want them to. They too are entitled to share their opinion...as you have done yours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    It doesn't matter, just do whatever you want. Making a bigger deal out of this than it has to be.
    Try dosing a cycle each way, then decide what you like better.

    Simple.
    Hey Jbry, would it be harder on your liver by processing all the pills at once?
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black to me.

    It does matter for reasons beyond half life and suppression.

    Some orals trigger accute hypertension, body sweats, rapid heart rate, aggression and or insomnia.

    Additionally, if you would like more 'discussion" on the topic quit becoming so irritated when people don't reply the way you want them to. They too are entitled to share their opinion...as you have done yours.
    The point of this topic was to start a dialogue. I did not ask for help or advice for anything i am personally doing. That dude kept responding with questions about my goals, and what particular compounds i was taking, etc. He was missing the point of my post. I started this topic because of imformation i've read going against the common practice of all day dosing. Just getting more opinions for topic's sake--not my sake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    Sounds like the kettle calling the pot black to me.

    It does matter for reasons beyond half life and suppression.

    Some orals trigger accute hypertension, body sweats, rapid heart rate, aggression and or insomnia.

    Additionally, if you would like more 'discussion" on the topic quit becoming so irritated when people don't reply the way you want them to. They too are entitled to share their opinion...as you have done yours.
    "Additionally", i have not shared any of my opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Hey Jbry, would it be harder on your liver by processing all the pills at once?
    it may, but the flipside is that your liver would also start clearing sooner, instead of staying stressed all day, even if stressed less per hour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    "Additionally", i have not shared any of my opinions.
    Are you done, or is there more?
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    i get more sides and a even little more emotional. Ive done both and i will not go back to one a day dosing. hope that helps buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by NADDANME View Post
    Question then what is the half life of Hdrol I been thinking of doing split doses on my current run but worried about insomnia if I take second dose to late in day
    it can cause insomnia , i never got it though. but you know we all respond differently
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    The point of this topic was to start a dialogue. I did not ask for help or advice for anything i am personally doing. That dude kept responding with questions about my goals, and what particular compounds i was taking, etc. He was missing the point of my post. I started this topic because of imformation i've read going against the common practice of all day dosing. Just getting more opinions for topic's sake--not my sake.
    All day dosing is a preference, some guys do it and some dont, you learn different things when you cycle. and you change things up. I like splitting my dose up, based on the ph's half life, also if its keeping me up ill dose it earlier in the day instead of night, so many variables guy. its a live and learning experience, each cycle teaches you something. does this fit your 'Discussion'.. where did you read this info on 'Going against the common practice of all day dosing'?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    All day dosing is a preference, some guys do it and some dont, you learn different things when you cycle. and you change things up. I like splitting my dose up, based on the ph's half life, also if its keeping me up ill dose it earlier in the day instead of night, so many variables guy. its a live and learning experience, each cycle teaches you something. does this fit your 'Discussion'.. where did you read this info on 'Going against the common practice of all day dosing'?
    Dan Duchaine and Bill Llewelyn. The following is a post from another topic, from member "EasyEJL":

    "the half life is 100% irrelevant, for a pile of reasons".

    "lets start with - naturally without anabolics, your low point of the day testosterone level wise is close to half what your high level is. So when you start to talk about "keeping constant blood levels" its pointless as even your natural levels arent' anywhere near constant. going past that, it may have some amount of value as to how you feel (vs how it affects anabolically) to have more stable levels, but in your case the testosterone is the base hormone covering that, so the overall androgen levels are going to stay well above normal human threshhold 24 hours a day as it is".

    Beyond that, one that is interesting and only a smidgen of research has been done on it is the idea of threshhold effects. This was always a concept that made me wonder. Its easier to give something else as an example though. If you take a 2:1:1 BCAA, and put 20g total in a bunch of water, and sip it over 2 hours, it gives very little anabolic effect. If you take 10g each hour and put it down in the span of a couple minutes, it exerts a fairly big muscle protein synthesis effect. There is a certain level you have to reach to have any effect, and its not neccessarily that a certain % of the product will be lost/metabolised without adding value, but that a certain net amount of it will be in a given timespan. There was I believe 1 study done on it that was not really all that well done (number of people participating, no clear control, etc) back in the 60s that showed that with dbol effectively the first 2-3 mg you take in an hour has next to no effect. So if you were dosing it as 5mg every hour for 8 hours, you got significantly lower effectiveness out of it than taking all 40mg at once".

    I then asked "EasyEJL" if he doses his orals (no matter what it is) all at once, and he replied "yes".
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    So more research needs to be done on dosing all day, .. if u ever did SD and dose 30mgs all at once you would feel some anxiety and sort of blurred vision, increased blood pressure, that's what happened to me, its very toxic you know, also it made me feel high and real horny too lol. so I split my dose up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    So more research needs to be done on dosing all day, .. if u ever did SD and dose 30mgs all at once you would feel some anxiety and sort of blurred vision, increased blood pressure, that's what happened to me, its very toxic you know, also it made me feel high and real horny too lol. so I split my dose up.
    when I dosed 40mg of superdrol (original designer supplements) all at once, I felt no anxiety, no blurred vision, blood pressure increased about as much as it would from eating a salted soft pretzel (around 5 points each systolic/diastolic). main side was horrible back pumps during deadlifts
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilzekester View Post
    Dan Duchaine and Bill Llewelyn. The following is a post from another topic, from member "EasyEJL":

    "the half life is 100% irrelevant, for a pile of reasons".

    "lets start with - naturally without anabolics, your low point of the day testosterone level wise is close to half what your high level is. So when you start to talk about "keeping constant blood levels" its pointless as even your natural levels arent' anywhere near constant. going past that, it may have some amount of value as to how you feel (vs how it affects anabolically) to have more stable levels, but in your case the testosterone is the base hormone covering that, so the overall androgen levels are going to stay well above normal human threshhold 24 hours a day as it is".

    Beyond that, one that is interesting and only a smidgen of research has been done on it is the idea of threshhold effects. This was always a concept that made me wonder. Its easier to give something else as an example though. If you take a 2:1:1 BCAA, and put 20g total in a bunch of water, and sip it over 2 hours, it gives very little anabolic effect. If you take 10g each hour and put it down in the span of a couple minutes, it exerts a fairly big muscle protein synthesis effect. There is a certain level you have to reach to have any effect, and its not neccessarily that a certain % of the product will be lost/metabolised without adding value, but that a certain net amount of it will be in a given timespan. There was I believe 1 study done on it that was not really all that well done (number of people participating, no clear control, etc) back in the 60s that showed that with dbol effectively the first 2-3 mg you take in an hour has next to no effect. So if you were dosing it as 5mg every hour for 8 hours, you got significantly lower effectiveness out of it than taking all 40mg at once".

    I then asked "EasyEJL" if he doses his orals (no matter what it is) all at once, and he replied "yes".
    With a compound (with reasonable half life), soon after regular dosing, you achieve steady peak levels.

    The post that you quoted has no merit aside from the two reputable names. Name dropping does not make it any less or more valid. Data is valid.

    Additionally, you have misquoted Easy. He stated "it depends" and "I think dosing orals all at once is better." His anecdotal evidence doesn't persuade me either way.

    Here is some food for thought for you and your discussion. Suppose single dose is better. Would I dose before or after my workout and why or why not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL

    when I dosed 40mg of superdrol (original designer supplements) all at once, I felt no anxiety, no blurred vision, blood pressure increased about as much as it would from eating a salted soft pretzel (around 5 points each systolic/diastolic). main side was horrible back pumps during deadlifts
    like I said we all respond differently, I got some nasty back pumps too from a higher dose.
    that experience was also my secondsd cycle and (fogot to mention) I slacked a little with my support supps and my water intake, so I guess my take on dosing all at once is out the window. lol
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    yeah, the particulars there was from someone on TRT, where they have a baseline of testosterone. I would lean more the other way of multiple doses at least for the shorter half life compounds like dbol without TRT behind it. With halo or ones that have 12+ half lifes, i'd still think single dose on waking would be best.

    And then too, for me sides have been close to nonexistent on anything outside of acne and back pumps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL
    yeah, the particulars there was from someone on TRT, where they have a baseline of testosterone. I would lean more the other way of multiple doses at least for the shorter half life compounds like dbol without TRT behind it. With halo or ones that have 12+ half lifes, i'd still think single dose on waking would be best.

    And then too, for me sides have been close to nonexistent on anything outside of acne and back pumps.
    I'm gonna try a single dose first thing every morning, currently on SD, on my 5th day of 4 weeker. see how I respond, I'm not slacking on support supps ,water intake or, diet, gymming hard and smart.. on a lean bulk
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightclub2012 View Post
    I'm gonna try a single dose first thing every morning, currently on SD, on my 5th day of 4 weeker. see how I respond, I'm not slacking on support supps ,water intake or, diet, gymming hard and smart.. on a lean bulk
    How much sd are you taking? If only 10mg, first thing in the morning may make sense to help with suppression. This probably wouldn't work with a greater dose. For 20mg, I'd take it all pre-workout.
  

  
 

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