Clomid Superdrol PCT didn't work, no libido

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  1. Ok, lets go thru this step by step:

    My first concern with all this was the pituitary tumor, but you were fine before this nasty cycle as you mentioned, so like your docs say, if its inactive its not likely the root of these problems.

    Second: Clomid would not have been my drug of choice for your pct, but thats ok. It is normal to see elevated T levels in blood work with clomid only to have them drop again after. This happens to alot of guys and it usually works it self out. Now pay attention closely to this, my BIGGEST issue with all this so far is the quality of your SERMS. I have nothing against research chems nor the companies that manufacture them, but do yourself a favor and acquire REAL PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE PCT DRUGS. That way we can rule out in the future bunk stuff being the culprit. If you dont know where to get them, google is your friend, they are not hard to acquire. Many of these are complex molecules, not exactly intended for suspension in benzyl alcohol or PEG so you can squirt them in your mouth.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Okay here it goes:2012:March 18-April 10: My cycleApril 10-May 8: PCT of Clomid 50 mg/dayMay 8-June 20: Nothing. Maybe ZMA, some T boosters, Caffeine as I felt unrecovered and tired.June 20-July 15: Clomid 150/100/100/50July 15-September 10: Nothing, same with maybe T Boosters and caffeine. Cant remember specifics. Seemed like I always was on and off with them both to help with fat loss and appetite.September 10-October 8- Clomid 100/100/50/50 Torem 90/90/60/60. First time i noticed testicle size increase. Not alot, Maybe from 50% increasing to maybe 70%. Seemed to end up around 60%.October 8: Blood work. Estradiol- 45ish, T 660ish. Good free T, LH, FSH. Felt terrible.November 20- December 10: Clomid again. Dunno the doses.December 10: Blood work around 800 T, 40s in Estradiol.Had blood tests about a month after each blood test that followed the Clomid runs. They always came back to about half the T levels I had from the blood test a month before.T Boosters taken in no particular order include: ZMA 3x (3 different times), Isa Test GF 2x, Libido XY 3x, Reversitol v2 and Formadrol Xtreme (which I took for my first PCT in Fall of '11), DAA 2x. May be a few more I tried.2013:May have taken clomid a bit again cant really remember.February 10: Blood test. T 400ish, Free T okay, don't remember E2.Random T boosters and pre workouts this year too.March 18- April 1: HCG 2,000 IU EOD, Nolva 20 mg ED, Letro 1.5 mg ED.April 1-April 10: Clomid 50 mg ED, Nolva 20 mg ED Forma Stanzol.May 1: Blood Work: Test=657, Total Estrogen=170 (needs to be under 130), Free T was right in the middle of the range. Everything else checked for was in the okay range, including TSH, T3, T4, (LH, FSH- need to find out what these 2 actually are), CBC, Liver Enzymes, Vitamin Panel, Prolactin, Progesterone, may be more stuff I cant remember. ONLY THING I HAVENT GOTTEN BACK YET IS ESTRADIOL. I will have this soon.May 10-Now: Aromasin about 25/25/25/then 12.5 mg from then until now, Libido XY, Fadogia, Fenugreek, Bridge, Unleashed, Fish Oil, (Multi, Vit B complex, Vit D, Vit C, Melatonin all for about 3 months now), Ashwaghanda, Rhodiola, Holy Basil.Ran out of Unleashed and Bridge is about gone. I also have unopened PCT MAXX, Tribulus, and Isa Test GF. I can spend money on it. More important than anything right now. There may be more stuff but thats it for the most part.I can reverse gyno in a heartbeat with aromasin but it never seems to stay away once i taper down the dose. I took only 6.25 mg this morning and it already seemed to come back so i added another 6.25 mg tonight.Also about sleep: dont sleep great, but i can and have been sleeping in as long as i want. Not in school because of this.Have a Non functioning Pituitary Tumor. Multiple Neurosurgeons and my last Endo ran tests and decided it isnt causing any problems.
    Now most of the other stuff you have with be rather useless IMO, keep it in the basement. You should be aware that clomid and serms are notorious for their "psychological" side effects if you will, clomid in particular as it is a synthetic estrogen. I want you to get another full blood panel in 4 weeks time and test for the following:Total TestFree TestSHBGE2FSHLHLH stands for lutenizing hormone. It is essentially a signal that is sent to your testes to coax them into producing testosterone. IMO, single most important factor here. LH likely came back ok because you had blood work drawn during pct if not mistaken, which skewed the results. If in fact, the LH signal is strong, we are on the way back to recovery. If not, we will address it when the blood work comes back. Your test levels look ok to me, nothing to be terribly concerned about. If in fact E2 comes out high which i can imagine it will be based on your total E numbers, we will adress it with real pharm grade aromatase inhibitors. In the time being, you must be patient. I will just keep saying those words over and over and in every damn post. You are young, not some middle aged man, so while it will be rocky, your body will recover on its own in due time. What to take now and nothing else:ZMA before bedFishoil ( mega dosed)Vitamin D 5000 iu ED500 mg Vit C 3 times dailyPlenty of rest, but dont over due the sleepHeavy lifting and plenty of exerciseMaintain a good diet with roughly 30 intake of fat which should include saturated fat from meats and egg yolks, important for testosterone synthesis.Now for some life advice: Get out of the house, your freaking fine kid. When you feel depressed and start to get mopy, turn on CNN and watch whats happening in Syria and Iraq and our poor vets coming home to no jobs and the list goes on. consider yourself lucky it came down to this, coulda been a whole hell of alot worse. Look into getting back to school, to your career and to your friends. Being around friends will be great for your mood. Start chasing girls again and enjoying life, its to short. PS; I know i said no stims, but if it will get you into the gym, a preworkout is no big deal if its mild and has no compounds that may affect your hormones.
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  3. oh btw, how are testicles looking today, starting to come back or still somewhat atrophied?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    Now most of the other stuff you have with be rather useless IMO, keep it in the basement. You should be aware that clomid and serms are notorious for their "psychological" side effects if you will, clomid in particular as it is a synthetic estrogen. I want you to get another full blood panel in 4 weeks time and test for the following:Total TestFree TestSHBGE2FSHLHLH stands for lutenizing hormone. It is essentially a signal that is sent to your testes to coax them into producing testosterone. IMO, single most important factor here. LH likely came back ok because you had blood work drawn during pct if not mistaken, which skewed the results. If in fact, the LH signal is strong, we are on the way back to recovery. If not, we will address it when the blood work comes back. Your test levels look ok to me, nothing to be terribly concerned about. If in fact E2 comes out high which i can imagine it will be based on your total E numbers, we will adress it with real pharm grade aromatase inhibitors. In the time being, you must be patient. I will just keep saying those words over and over and in every damn post. You are young, not some middle aged man, so while it will be rocky, your body will recover on its own in due time. What to take now and nothing else:ZMA before bedFishoil ( mega dosed)Vitamin D 5000 iu ED500 mg Vit C 3 times dailyPlenty of rest, but dont over due the sleepHeavy lifting and plenty of exerciseMaintain a good diet with roughly 30 intake of fat which should include saturated fat from meats and egg yolks, important for testosterone synthesis.Now for some life advice: Get out of the house, your freaking fine kid. When you feel depressed and start to get mopy, turn on CNN and watch whats happening in Syria and Iraq and our poor vets coming home to no jobs and the list goes on. consider yourself lucky it came down to this, coulda been a whole hell of alot worse. Look into getting back to school, to your career and to your friends. Being around friends will be great for your mood. Start chasing girls again and enjoying life, its to short. PS; I know i said no stims, but if it will get you into the gym, a preworkout is no big deal if its mild and has no compounds that may affect your hormones.
    Oh i know all about clomids sides ha. Why are my T boosters useless? What would you suggest? I know what LH is too. No i got my bloods recently done about 3 weeks after finishing clomid ( which i only took for 10 days after hcg) so maybe its skewed but idk! Ill call tomorrow and see what lh and fsh were, also estradiol should be ready this week, maybe tomorrow! I see the Supps to take now. How much fish oil should it be? Ive been taking about 5 G of Vit C a day. I know ive been a baby, it just got me off guard. i have been getting out alot, it just is hard to keep up is all. i will keep at it though. im gonna lay off the stims. my testicles are probably 75 or 80% what they were pre cycle they were huge before... I really thought id be feeling enthusiastic by now and full of just sexual and career drive you know? im sure i hindered that with supplements and such. also i thought my testicles would be larger by now too. i guess all i can do is wait and try harder

  5. HCG seemed to firm up my testicles but not really increase their size idk if that's normal or not
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  6. Testicles usually take a bit to recover, if there anywhere from 70 to 80 of what they were before, your on the right track. This means the necessary things are being done by your body. As for Test boosters, there mostly proprietary blends which means you dont really know what the specific dosages of what are in them. On top of that, many have down right worthless ingredients. Im a huge fan of DAA, it works, and has been clinically tested to do so, but like i said, you should wait until we know what E2 comes back as. Keep fighting.

    Ray

  7. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Oh i know all about clomids sides ha. Why are my T boosters useless? What would you suggest? I know what LH is too. No i got my bloods recently done about 3 weeks after finishing clomid ( which i only took for 10 days after hcg) so maybe its skewed but idk! Ill call tomorrow and see what lh and fsh were, also estradiol should be ready this week, maybe tomorrow! I see the Supps to take now. How much fish oil should it be? Ive been taking about 5 G of Vit C a day. I know ive been a baby, it just got me off guard. i have been getting out alot, it just is hard to keep up is all. i will keep at it though. im gonna lay off the stims. my testicles are probably 75 or 80% what they were pre cycle they were huge before... I really thought id be feeling enthusiastic by now and full of just sexual and career drive you know? im sure i hindered that with supplements and such. also i thought my testicles would be larger by now too. i guess all i can do is wait and try harder
    another thing with vit C, you know they also say its an anti oxidant and what not, well guess what lol, its only an antioxidant at 500 mg dosages. When you get into the 1000 mg range, it actually becomes a pro-oxidant lmfao, go figure. Like i said, 500 mg 3 times a day is plenty.

  8. Clomid blows, i hate that ****, they sat androgens cause agression, jesus, try synthetic estrogens, that **** is insanity in a pill.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    another thing with vit C, you know they also say its an anti oxidant and what not, well guess what lol, its only an antioxidant at 500 mg dosages. When you get into the 1000 mg range, it actually becomes a pro-oxidant lmfao, go figure. Like i said, 500 mg 3 times a day is plenty.
    ha my luck. for some reason i had read that with cortisol or stress issues your body has trouble absorbing it so you need to mega dose it.

  10. i wouldnt be surprised if my recovery is longer mentally just because ive been out of the game and feeling natural and normal for so long now. **** its been 14 months.i still think ill know when im feeling good again, and not have to convince myself im okay. i dont think i should have to relearn how to be me again. i think once i get my test energy and sexual drive back, my mood depression and anxiety will level.

  11. yep. .. i think ur partialy right there. go out this weekend and bang a few fat chicks if u have too

  12. Estradiol came back 27

  13. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Estradiol came back 27
    Wats the ref range?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    Wats the ref range?
    Isn't it always like 10-40

  15. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    Isn't it always like 10-40
    Not always, depends on the lab and units of measure. This is important. Call the doc find out for sure. Tbh, if you are correct, then its a bit on the high side but certainly not catastrophic. Lookin good kid. If im right, i think your on the way back to a normal, drug free recovery. I want you to try and get your hands on some pharmaceutical grade nolva and torem. If in 3 to 4 weeks you have not shown any improvement, should we need to attempt a restart of the pct, they will be important.

    Now, i DO want you to add some supplements. Heres the list:
    Citrulline malate 4 g ed. This will improve erection strength substantially which will turn give you more confidence for some wet work should the occasion arise.
    ZMA: self explanatory
    L-carnitine tartarate: clinically proven to increase androgen receptor density in resistance trained athletes. Shoot for 4 grams a day as well with some carbs. Split dose twice a day. Take some carbs with each dose
    Ginseng: great for overall mood and energy: you love it and it will help. Get a brand with a high ginsenosides quantity. Thats the key with ginseng

    Finally, and you may laugh at this, but i think it helps. Wear loose fitting underwear such that your scrotum is not compressed. Helps me, laugh it up, but try it. See what happens, thank me later

    Thats it for now. Update once or twice a week on your mood and libido levels. Well go from there.

    Ray

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    Not always, depends on the lab and units of measure. This is important. Call the doc find out for sure. Tbh, if you are correct, then its a bit on the high side but certainly not catastrophic. Lookin good kid. If im right, i think your on the way back to a normal, drug free recovery. I want you to try and get your hands on some pharmaceutical grade nolva and torem. If in 3 to 4 weeks you have not shown any improvement, should we need to attempt a restart of the pct, they will be important. Now, i DO want you to add some supplements. Heres the list:Citrulline malate 4 g ed. This will improve erection strength substantially which will turn give you more confidence for some wet work should the occasion arise.ZMA: self explanatoryL-carnitine tartarate: clinically proven to increase androgen receptor density in resistance trained athletes. Shoot for 4 grams a day as well with some carbs. Split dose twice a day. Take some carbs with each doseGinseng: great for overall mood and energy: you love it and it will help. Get a brand with a high ginsenosides quantity. Thats the key with ginsengFinally, and you may laugh at this, but i think it helps. Wear loose fitting underwear such that your scrotum is not compressed. Helps me, laugh it up, but try it. See what happens, thank me later Thats it for now. Update once or twice a week on your mood and libido levels. Well go from there.Ray
    isnt there a few kinds of ginseng. Siberian Korean American Panax etc? What kid do I want? I always wear loose boxers. The doc said the estradiol was good so idk if they helps you narrow that down or not. It feels as if I have no test. Just low test symptoms. No interest in sex. No just daily erections. No sensitivity downstairs at all. Numbness. No mental drive for work or exercise. No self control. I still work at it though. No energy. Super anxious and getting down on myself because of the feelings. Feel girly. Indecisive and all that. I used to be constantly excited happy chipper pep in my step horny. I find it weird that steroids cause my testicles to shrink and ppl don't think that matters. They say as long as they are decent size you're fine. But shouldn't I be 100% of my testicle size? I felt great when they were 100% bulging. Now and since the supplements they've never been even 80% and I feel terrible. How is there not more of a correlation? Why do they shrink this much anyways?

  17. How much fish oil should I take? Is it okay to take 1 g of Vit C in the morning and 500 mg before bed? Still take vitamin B D and multi right?

  18. By the way. A doc will not give me pharm grade torem Nolva clomid if my T is well into normal range

  19. Ok,

    So im betting you had high hopes that the e2 was gunna be insanely high, pop an anti e and be back to normal? Guess again, you are dealing with one of the most senative organs in the body and imtensely comples ratios of hormones that only your own body knows how to balance and if youve ever taken even an intro biochem class, youl know its more than capable.

    Lets recap for a second so you have a better picture. You took heavy doses of designer oral steroids with no real gaurantee that the hormones on the label were wat were actually in the pills for a very extended period of time. No **** you feel this way!!!!!!!!! Your supposed to feel this way. Make no mistake, you likely caused severe damage to your hpta at such a young and developing age. You need to come to grips physchology first that you are in fact not normal now, you are partially hypogonal, and this is a medical condition that must be treated as such. You are not ok. Let me be clear again.

    Once you accept thia fact we can break it down into science. Your testicles by your suggestion are not producing enough t for your liking. This is normal, they have been coming back slowly as you say, but again, for them to reach 100% normal it cannot go back to over night or even months after the damage they sustained. Second point. All hope is not last, your e2 is somewhat high. Your hpta needs time to recover. Give it more time. Now for the good news, considering your chemical castration cycle, you have faired pretty well. Based on your numbers there is an lh signal that will likely continue to increase over time. What your likely feeling is the hormonal imbalance aspect and once this begins to resolve youl continue to feel incrementally better. Now you also have to understand that the body responds well to external stimulation and you hve to give it that. You need to excercise for your body to reward you hormonally and you need to engage in sexual activity and flirting for it to respond in term by producing more sperm and t.

    Look im not a doc, i dont pretend to have all your answers or cure you, i dont. But based on experiance and what medical knowledge i do have, youl get better considerqbly over time, theres been plenty of guys that recoverd from alot worse than this, and there are other tools and options if all else fails, which it wont. Time

    Now for the fish oil, depending on concentration, close to 6 to 8 a day. It is not ok to take 1500 mg of vit c, take only 500 sometimes less is more.

  20. And yes still take b d and e vitamins. Those are fine.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by xams2387 View Post
    By the way. A doc will not give me pharm grade torem Nolva clomid if my T is well into normal range
    Who said anything about a doc? Of course he wont!

  22. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    Who said anything about a doc? Of course he wont!
    Haha where would I get pharm grade stuff then? The research chem clomid took my T to at least 800 according to an old blood test. Like I said it dropped after though. Do my testicles need to be 100% for my balls to accept this much test and libido?

  23. Oh okay. I thought you said 500 mg of Vit C 3x a day. So I thought 1000 mg once then 500 mg later. Not okay then? My fish oil is 1000mg per Sofitel. Yeah no most messing with hormones for me. It's very hard to flirt with such little energy ya know. I can do it myself for now if that's enough. I will keep doing the things you say such as exercising eating eggs and more meats... I guess I just thought that if my hormone numbers were good I should feel good. I guess there is like a delaying effect phase where you need to quit it all and let yourself reset to its perfect needs and ratios.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by bigbb123 View Post
    And yes still take b d and e vitamins. Those are fine.
    What ginseng do you recommend?

  25. Il pm you a source if you actually end up needing them in 4 weeks when you get another blood test also make sure you go to all your endo and other doc appointments. Youll only gain and who knows they might find something completely unrelated. Just go, thank me later
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