Best method to control E in a bulker
- 10-28-2004, 08:33 AM
Best method to control E in a bulker
Here's the deal... My last cycle was the first time I ever experienced symptoms of gyno.Nothing bad, and it was only during the last week of the cycle.Nolva knocked it right out.I was using 1600~1800mg 4ADcyp weeks 1-8, M14ADD300mg weeks 1-5, and 75mg/day tren weeks 4-8. Anyway, I am planning a similar cycle and this time I think it would be wise to be fully prepared to combat E since it is now apparent that I am not immune to gyno.
What I would like to know is this... There are differing opinions on the best way to control E during a cycle.Nolva,Letro and such. I have never had to use them during a cycle so I would like some opinions on what would work best to control gyno without negating the benificial aspects of E in a bulking cycle. What to use, at what dose and why will help me figure this out. Thanks guys.
Oh yeah, PCT will consist of Nolva and clomid.
- 10-28-2004, 09:07 AM
I'd use an antiaromatase like letro or arimidex for estrogen control during a cycle, or add something to your stack like OHT or one of the DHT derrivatives. As to the dosing, I believe on both AIs .5mg ED is reccomended. Nolva is best saved for if gyno actually starts occuring.
- 10-28-2004, 09:45 AM
OK, so if I use letro at .5mg, can I wait til I get early warning signs or will it be too late then and time for nolva. Or would it just be best to use the letro from the getgo.
10-28-2004, 10:11 AM
I was thinking about this myself, and decided that I will run a dht androgen along side the m14add. I think an AI is to potent for this, and will ruin the effects of m14, jmo. I still want some of the bulking poperties of the E, so I was thinking a low dose of 3-alpha.
10-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Sounds like an intresting solution.I diddn't know a DHT androgen could do that. I'm sure it will help with sex drive too. I would like to hear more about that.Anybody else use it that way before? Suggestions on type,brand, and dosages would be helpful. I assume I could get what I need for an 8 week cycle for about the same price of letro?Or close to it?Originally Posted by ryansm
10-28-2004, 11:00 AM
Too late. You use the AI from the beginning. If you start to feel an itch or a lump, start running nolva at 60mg ED until it subsides. At that point depending on how you respond you can continue the cycle or stop and go straight to PCT if it isn't working.Originally Posted by Lean One
10-28-2004, 11:01 AM
id go with the 5aacyp. it's good stuff.
10-28-2004, 11:45 AM
Don't have any. Don't think I can get any either.Originally Posted by chasec
CDB, What do you think about using 3alpha. Any thoughts?
10-28-2004, 11:53 AM
Well, I found some 5AAcyp on customs site. How many grams would I need to get me through an 8 week cycle? What would the mg/ml be and would one kit be enough?Oh yeah, how should I dose it?
10-28-2004, 12:43 PM
Sorry, no. Never used it and never was interested enough in it to do research. Custom should have some M5AA, and his Methyl Jacked or MDHT should be out pretty soon. I'd go with his stuff if you're gonna try stacking an androgen to compete with the estrogen. If not, go with an AI. The benefit from the DHT and such is the extra jacked attitude and focus in the gym and other androgenic effects that come with it along with the anti e properties. Might be the best way to go actually.Originally Posted by Lean One
10-28-2004, 12:52 PM
You could run it the entire cycle at 600mgs a week or more. I would either do this or the 3-alpha, stacking methyl's for that long wouldn't be practical.Originally Posted by Lean One
10-28-2004, 01:37 PM
OK, so if I get a kit and convert it,what size kit would I need? How many mg/ml can I get it to hold?Originally Posted by ryansm
BTW, the help is apreciated.I'm learning something new here. I'm getting exited about this cycle.Well worth the $10 a month.
10-28-2004, 01:44 PM
I haven't done this conversion yet myself, but here is a link that discusses it. http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=17416There are more obviously, but you could try to pm one of those guys to help you out. It looks like you can get 200mgs a mil. Sorry, bro and I agree the 10 bucks is well worth it.
10-28-2004, 02:57 PM
Letrozole and arimidex will pretty much eliminate 95%+ of your estrogen. M5AA, 5AA-cyp, and MDHT will also counteract estrogenic sides. I recommend femara or arimidex at .5cc eod. If you want to add another androgen, use M5AA or MDHT for ease of use. Or, if you want to convert and pin, go with 5aacyp. They'll all work. If I were you, I'd use MDHT or M5AA (designersupps has a buy 1 get one free deal on m5aa right now, so it is super cheap.)
Last edited by screwbol; 10-29-2004 at 07:12 AM.
10-28-2004, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.Originally Posted by screwbol
10-28-2004, 04:47 PM
letro and you won't have to worry about ANY bloat
do a search for letro by supersoldier he was complaining a while back he got too dry
10-28-2004, 05:23 PM
Supersoldier is on so much **** I don't think you could pin any one effect he noticed down to one substance. I appreciate the guy and all he's posted here, but God damn...Originally Posted by glenihan
10-28-2004, 06:05 PM
if i remember correctly he was on a lot yes, but he got super super dry within like 2 days once he started on the letro so in this specific case i'm pretty sure you can attribute it to the letro it is powerful stuff
i think most would do fine with .5 eod
10-28-2004, 07:56 PM
True, very true.Originally Posted by CDB
Thanks for the help guys. I think I'm gonna go for the MDHT. Customs' deal looks real good and by the time I stock up on powder and get a kit, the cost just isn't worth it IMO. Besides, I'll be pinning Tren and 4ADcyp with this. one less needle to stick in my ass is fine with me.
Again, thanks for the help. I learned something new with this one.
10-28-2004, 08:09 PM
btw, just curious...
when did you get the gyno symptoms?? if it was when the tren started, then may be estro wasn't the culprit
10-28-2004, 08:25 PM
Nah bro, I was on the tren for like 4 weeks before I got any symptoms. It really was the last week of the cycle when it started. I was suprised because I was taking 300mg of M14ADD/day with the 4ADcyp for the first 5 weeks. I thought after that, if I got no symptoms of gyno, I was home free. Guess not.Originally Posted by kojie
10-28-2004, 08:30 PM
I have a study of Letrozole's effect on E, LH and Test levels done on 18 healthy males, mean age 28.4, ED dosing. A cautionary trend to this study is that doses from 0.02mg to 30mg causes a large drop in E2 in the first 24 hours, but at all doses the E2 (estradiol) levels again start climbing between hour 24 and 32 , and some doses, like 0.1, the E2 levels go above baseline on day 8 , to 1.51X of the start value on day 21, and at 2.5mgs, to 1.15X of start value on day 21.
Unfortunately, this publishing is missing some data, no values beyond day 3 for 0.5 and 1.0mg doses, but the upward trend after hour 24 is there for all doses. Makes me think the best way to use Let is EOD and that Ergopharm's very limited study on 6-oxo has both a better E and T response profile than this.
10-28-2004, 08:33 PM
Letro doesnt hurt gains at all right???? Doesnt real low estrogen like hurt gains I thought I read something about that in big cats articles
Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
10-28-2004, 08:41 PM
Estrogen promotes glycogen storage witch will make your muscles fuller. It also is helpfull in keeping sex drive up. That's why I decided to use a DHT steroid to control E. I want the benificial effects of E on the cycle, but I don't want gyno.Originally Posted by tommyboy
Anyway, I covered all my bases. I got 2 bottles of nolva and pre-ordered 4 bottles of MDHT from custom. This is gonna be a good cycle. God I love chemistry.
10-28-2004, 08:46 PM
Taking Estrogen completely out of the cycle, basically turns a bulker into a lean mass cycle. Remember that Estrogen helps in the mass department that is why I suggest running some form of dht as it has some anti-e properties, not something as powerful as an AI.
10-28-2004, 08:47 PM
I'm actually running this too for my winter bulk. What dosages are you thinking on the mdht?Originally Posted by Lean One
10-28-2004, 08:50 PM
You could go with 3 alpha powder in a trans solution and rub it right on where you want. M5aa would also help to lower overall E.
Actually DHT will be even better for the sex drive, you want to control E not totaly destroy it. The real reason it can hurt gains is GH needs it to be present in the liver for a better igf1 conversion. if e is to low now igf1.
10-28-2004, 08:51 PM
My point is that maybe Let used ED for more than 8 days may not be the complete E eliminator for a full cycle that it's commonly believed to be.
10-28-2004, 08:56 PM
I have heard and read some studies showing this as well. . .Originally Posted by Rogue Drone
10-28-2004, 09:21 PM
I have no Idea. I need to research that. I know Customs Tablets are 12.5mg 90 per bottle. I'm open to suggestions. Sldge?, Custom?Originally Posted by ryansm
10-29-2004, 02:26 AM
I believe in another thread they said 37.5mg ED would yield good results.Originally Posted by Lean One
10-29-2004, 04:58 AM
That's what I figured. I'm gonna do a search on this and feed my brain.
10-29-2004, 07:47 AM
Anybody tried 6oxo or formestene for this purpose (controlling bloat on cycle). I don't want to mess with letro or arimex cause I don't want all the estrogen and water sucked from my body, but I was thinking maybe a milder anti-e would do better....maybe formestene or 6oxo. They got that powder in bulk at custom now, and I could scoop that up cheap. My next cycle is probably going to be very wet: tentatively trans 1test/4ad and M1,4AD so I thinking about my options.
10-29-2004, 01:40 PM
i took formastane transdermal during a T1Pro cycle, helped nicely and its easy to control the dosage.
I used Avants E-Form, recommend it.
11-01-2004, 11:54 AM
Well, after some resaerch, it seems like guys are really liking this stuff at 75-100mg/day. I think this is in terms of agression though. I still would like to know if 37mg/day will work for estrogen control and wether or not I should divide the dose. I need to know if I should stock up more before the ban.
11-01-2004, 01:39 PM
11-01-2004, 04:00 PM
I'm gonna use formestane or M-DHT at the beginning of my next cycle (in cycle info) to combat e/bloat probs while using 4AD/1T. Letro was my earlier choice, but I think formestane t/d with the others should do the trick and work synergistically as well. I'm tempted to use the M-DHT though, cause I'm caught up in all the hype!! Damn choices...
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