1. 4-AD/19-Nor

    Has anyone used a transdermal stack of 4-AD/19-Nor? I doing 400 mg/day of 4-AD and 500mg/day of 19-Nor, and 60mg M 1,4. Has anyone had success with this? I've been on it for a week now and have only noticed a slight strength increase. Are the doses too low? I'm going to stop the M 1,4 in another week. How long should I run the transdermals? 4 weeks or 6 weeks? I've heard some people say that the 19-Nor doesn't really kick in for about 3 weeks.

  2. 4-ad and 19-nor both take a while to kick in, like 3 weeks for the 4ad, and sometimes longer for the 19-nor. Why are you stopping the m14add? Try bumping the dose by 20mgs per week until you notice the effects.
    Last edited by ryansm; 10-27-2004 at 12:01 PM.


  3. I was only going to 2 weeks with the M-1,4 because it is methylated. Would there be a problem going 4 weeks at 60 mg/day? I' guessin your suggesting a 6 week cycle to get the full effect. Have you had any luck with 19-nor? I've seen where some people have been disappointed with it.

  4. Not all methylated androgens are created equal, including sides. M14add is rather mild compared to m1t, so it can be used longer. I would bump the dosage, and use it 4-6 weeks. I have never used 19-nor so I can't help you there, my advice is to stick with it, it hasn't been long enough to start doubting anything.

  5. Thanks ryansm. I'll try to keep you posted on how things work out. I can tell after having my second chest workout while using them I went from 295 for 5 reps in the bench to 295 for 7 reps. I do have to qualify that though. I was up to 315 for 5 reps a year ago before having what the doctors thought was a shoulder problem. Long story short it wasn't a shoulder problem it was a bicep tendon problem but I still ended up three holes in my shoulder in July and a year of lost time. So I really haven't been anywhere I haven't been before.

  6. wait it out. You are just getting started. wait til 2weeks and you should notice something and after 4-6wks you'll love it. I've done deca which is what 19 nor converts to, I gained 9 lbs and leaned up. low carb high protein. got strong. keep us posted.

  7. WWB2,
    Did you change your diet much? I'm normally around 2500 calories and 200 grams of protien. I've moved up to 3,000 and 3000. I don't want to start to get sloppy looking, or sloppier lookng (it's a perpective thing).

  8. I cut back from 4000 to about 3500 and ate so much lean meat I hated meat. I forget the # of protein grams. I had a drastic change because I wanted lean muscle gain. keep in mind ph still has to convert and I injected the deca so there was so much more in the blood stream.

    The 4ad and the m1,4 will add some estrogen.

  9. I'll keep plugging away and let you know how it goes. I don't mind a little estrogen action right now, not that I'm trying to get in touch with my feminie side, it should help the joints a little while going heavy. Beginning in week 2, this past Tuesday I started with 40mg of Nolva. I'll probably keep it there through the cycle and start reducing it over the first two or three weeks off cycle. I'd like to reduce it over the first 2 weeks post cycle and then start some 6-OXO but I just stocked up and spending more money might not make it past the misses.

    I have some 1-AD sitting around and thought about using that the last 2 weeks of the cycle when I run out of the the m-1, 4. That should help dry me out and might help me keep more of my gains.

    Thanks guys for your input. I'm always looking for new or better ideas and will gladly share anything I learn.

  10. It's the beginning of week2 for the stack. I haven't felt much change, a little increase in aggression levels which is nice for the heavy sets. My bodu weight is up a few pounds. I cut my calories a little because I felt I was starting to look a sloppy. I've found I don't need a lot of extra calories to get my weight up. I'm still keeping my protien up about 60 grams a day over maintanence levels and that's where most of my extra calories are coming from.

    I increased the 4-AD to 500mg/day and upped the m-1,4 to 4 tablets a day (2 morning and two in the afternoon).


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