Looking for Final Pointers on First PH Cycle (and stock up)

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    Looking for Final Pointers on First PH Cycle (and stock up)


    I've done my research and finally feel ready to run my first PH cycle at 25. I'll probably be buying bulk powders from 1fast and Custom.

    Looking to start with

    1,4-AD (600-900 mg/day - oral, probably in olive oil. Not as confident as some about even dosing in caps, though persuadeable)
    4-AD (300-600 mg/day - transdermal in t-gel)

    Will probably run for 6-weeks. Perhaps not starting the 4-AD until week 2, seeing as this is a first cycle?

    I'm considering this a cleanish bulk, hoping for some strength gains. Hairloss is a primary concern, and I'll be running this with finasteride, 2% nizoral, and 5% spiro. No, no 1-AD.

    Nolva will be on hand throughout and used for PCT.

    The 1,4-Andro isn't that bad when you buy it in bulk (i.e. $2/gram). Obviously 4-AD isn't that expensive, either. I was also thinking about getting some M1,4-ADD, as the reviews seem to be really positive with little hairloss.

    -Does the olive oil sound like it will be fine for the 1,4-andro? It seems others have done well with it.

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    If you are going to bulk buy things, you might want to look at buying bulk powders for a transdermal 1Test/4AD cycle. If you make your own it is fairly cheap and very effective at putting on some good mass if run at the right dosage.

    Other than that, your cycle looks good. I would throw some M1,4ADD in there too like you said. I'll be doing a similar cycle soon 1AD, 1,4andro, M1,4ADD, M5AA.
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    For me, 4ad takes 10 - 14 days to kick in. If you wait 2 weeks to start and it takes almost 2 weeks to kick in, you'll only be getting its benefits for 2 - 2.5 weeks of your cycle. With that in mind, I would personally start the 4ad at day one. I don't have any knowledge or experience with 1,4ad so I have no input there.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
    If you are going to bulk buy things, you might want to look at buying bulk powders for a transdermal 1Test/4AD cycle. If you make your own it is fairly cheap and very effective at putting on some good mass if run at the right dosage.

    Other than that, your cycle looks good. I would throw some M1,4ADD in there too like you said. I'll be doing a similar cycle soon 1AD, 1,4andro, M1,4ADD, M5AA.
    If it's his first cycle I don't suggest methylated version of 1.4 AD (M1.4AD) but just 1.4 AD base.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir.kevin
    If it's his first cycle I don't suggest methylated version of 1.4 AD (M1.4AD) but just 1.4 AD base.
    M1,4ADD is supposed to be mild, unlike M1T....I dont think it should be a problem for him to do this.....
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    If he did never use PH.He doesn't know how he is going to react. M1.4AD is milder than M1t regarding androgenic side effects, but it's still a methylated version and is harsh to the liver.
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    yeah but telling him to use 1,4 andro instead of m14ad is like me telling you to use EQ instead of dbol
    1,4 andro is a completely different compound with different effects than m14ad they are not substitutes

    imho there is nothing wrong with using m14ad for a first cycle
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    1,4 andro needs about a 4 week frontload to be effective. You should use the 4ad the whole cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    yeah but telling him to use 1,4 andro instead of m14ad is like me telling you to use EQ instead of dbol
    1,4 andro is a completely different compound with different effects than m14ad they are not substitutes

    imho there is nothing wrong with using m14ad for a first cycle
    M1.4ad is the same PH than 1.4andro but with a methyl group added. Theoretically the effect of these two compounds are the same but 1.4andro is much weaker and milder than the methylated version. EQ and dbol are not the same compound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir.kevin
    M1.4ad is the same PH than 1.4andro but with a methyl group added. Theoretically the effect of these two compounds are the same but 1.4andro is much weaker and milder than the methylated version. EQ and dbol are not the same compound.
    With this theory then m1t would be the same as 1-test, they are not. The methylation completely changes the androgen. They are not the same. 1,4 andro converts to eq, while m14add converts to d-bol, because they are the prohormones of each.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sir.kevin
    M1.4ad is the same PH than 1.4andro but with a methyl group added. Theoretically the effect of these two compounds are the same but 1.4andro is much weaker and milder than the methylated version. EQ and dbol are not the same compound.
    ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryansm
    With this theory then m1t would be the same as 1-test, they are not. The methylation completely changes the androgen. They are not the same. 1,4 andro converts to eq, while m14add converts to d-bol, because they are the prohormones of each.
    I totally agree but what I wanted to say was that IMO somebody who did never use PH would better start with the base form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir.kevin
    EQ and dbol are not the same compound.
    you do realize that dbol is methylated boldenone and boldenone IS eq?
    so by the same token m14ad is methylated 1,4ad

    still think m14ad and 1,4ad are the same thing?
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    Exactly, EQ and dbol are not the same, they don't seem to have the same effects... So therefore saying that 1,4AD and m1,4AD are the same and will have similar effects is nonsense.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
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    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Yeah, I'd planned on running the M1,4-ADD at a later date. I'm not so sure combining it with 4-AD would be all that I'm looking for, either, as I'd imagine you could surf on my bellywaves with all that water I'd be taking in.

    I appreciate the advice on running the 4-AD for the full six weeks. It was something I'd planned on looking into before I started.

    Muchas gracias, dudes.
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    I don't know much at all about 1,4AD and how much water weight and estrogen it'll give you, but I think if you threw some M5 or MDHT in there for at least part of the time, it would kill any estrogen and water weight from the 4AD plus give you some more strength gains and a killer pre workout boost.
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    gotta agree 1,4 and m1,4 are different.

    here's my input on 1,4 andro. 10/29/04 will be 4wks of 900mg spread out. very little results so far. I'm also stacking with 37mg of m4ohn. I'm a hard gainer so I think I need to stick with the more potent ph.
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    wasted - Are you using the regular dione version of 1,4andro or the diol? I assume you're doing this orally (since most believe it has high oral bioavailability) Thanks.
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    using the diol. I wanted to stay lean. there is some rumor that the dione is more effective? yes its oral.
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    Yes, some say the dione works better. This could be because it results in some estrogen which may help with gains, or it could be due to the fact that diol is difficult to produce in pure form. At least one retailer found that the product sold to them was not in high concentration. If that's true you may not be taking as much diol as you think and it won't be effective as you expect. There's also some info at the following link: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/19371-1-4ad-transdermal-post176411.html
    Last edited by rrgg; 10-29-2004 at 09:29 AM.
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    thanks I'm increasing the dose today to 1200mg. I think its sci fit 300mg caps. Ive heard what people think about sci fit.
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    I've seen complaints about SciFit on the BB board, but ...

    Sade at BN says SciFit is a good company, and BN doesn't even sell their products.
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    I've had great success with 6 weeks on 1,4andro and 5 weeks on 1-test. I started the 1,4andro a week before the 1-test because of how long it takes to kick in. My gains were dry and lean. My gf and my brother (workout partner) think I look leaner and much larger. I won't argue I probably put a few pounds of fat on but I'm up over 15 lbs from the start of my cycle and I *know* the majority of that is lean gain. I'll be writing a post up this weekend or the start of next week listing my results and gains. You might consider a 1-test, 1,4andro cycle. This is my first cycle and I had zero side affects other than some testicular atrophy. I was taking 600 mg 1,4andro spread in three doses 8 hours apart. I was taking 400 mg 1-test transdermal spread in two doses 12 hours apart. Good results! No water retention... which was my goal. I can't wait to finish PCT and start a cut to see all of this new added muscle. PCT is 40mg Nolva week 1 - 2 with Metacort. 20mg Nolva week 3 - 4 with Metacort.

    Regards,

    Brian
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    BTW, I was taking 1fast400 1,4andro caps and Dermabolics Big One.

    Brian
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    thanks for the input. I wonder if the 1test is contributing to the gains. I've used 1ad and liked it. I'm extending my cylce with larger doses to see what happens.
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    I wonder if the 1test is contributing to the gains.
    I don't think there's any doubt about that. 400mg/day over 5 weeks would provide good gains on its own, but the sides may be too much for some people unless stacking with something else.

    dd
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    I am a big guy, 6'1" 233 starting and I am now 250 lbs. We use 6 rep to failure only upping weight after completion of 6 solid reps at the given weight. We do warm up exercises each set consisting of 5 low weight reps. I also forgot to mention but I've never been really vascular but recently I've seen veins all over the place. This supports that fact that I believe my overall bf% has dropped on cycle. My muscle density and hardness is much much more then when I started. I'm stocking up on , M1T, 1-test, and 1,4andro before the ban. Lean gains is where it is at atleast as far as I am concerned. I have 4derm incase any sides were unbearable but I didn't need it. I also might experiment with jump starting my cycle next time with M1T for 2 weeks @ 5mg but keeping everything else the same. I'll probably try this new approach after the new year.

    Brian
    Last edited by yourHEAD; 10-29-2004 at 02:29 PM. Reason: Forgot some info...
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