Fighting my genetics with T3!(myths destroyed)

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    Fighting my genetics with T3!(myths destroyed)


    I am now in a lean mass phase with a small t3 dose.25-30 mcgs as a nutrient partitioner.Most my my training has been done in a low carb/deficit state because of my love hate relationship with my genetics.Father is a rather large man and has been for most of his life.Mom is the same.Needless to say I lose alot of muscle staying lean or atleast trying to.Carbs are my enemy so to speak and excess calories seem to store quickly. So far my first dose today and I feel better after eating carbs than I used to,not tired at all.
    Over the next 3 weeks I'll be playing around with this serious drug.Here are some myths/misconceptions about t3 I have found in my research.

    T3 causes damage to your thyroid myth

    It dose indeed cause your natural t3 production to stop but you do recover as long as you don't go overboard.25mcgs ED even over 3 months won't damage your thyroid permanently .Of course this is for the general population mind you.If you go above 150mcgs thats getting a little much.Although rebound weight gain is almost writen in stone.


    T3 burns muscle!

    This is true at high doses (above 50 mcgs) coupled with low calories.At lower doses this shouldn't be a problem as long as your eating enough OVER maint level.



    T3 is a cutting drug and nothing more!

    Not true,nutrient partitioning aspect is great!Can be used in bulk/lean mass for better breakdown of/partitioning fats,carbs and protein.

    Heres info on the effects
    Effects of T3

    T3 increases the basal metabolic rate and, thus, increases the body's oxygen and energy consumption. The basal metabolic rate is the minimal caloric requirement needed to sustain life in a resting individual. T3 acts on the majority of tissues within the body, with a few exceptions including the spleen and testis. It increases the production of the Na+/K+ -ATPase and, in general, increases the turnover of different endogenous macromolecules by increasing their synthesis and degradation.

    Protein
    T3 stimulates the production of RNA Polymerase I and II and, therefore, increases the rate of protein synthesis. It also increases the rate of protein degradation, and, in excess, the rate of protein degradation exceeds the rate of protein synthesis. In such situations, the body may go into negative ion balance.

    Glucose
    T3 potentiates the effects of the β-adrenergic receptors on the metabolism of glucose. Therefore, it increases the rate of glycogen breakdown and glucose synthesis in gluconeogenesis.

    Lipids
    T3 stimulates the breakdown of cholesterol and increases the number of LDL receptors, thereby increasing the rate of lipolysis.

    Heart
    T3 increases the heart rate and force of contraction, thus increasing cardiac output, by increasing β-adrenergic receptor levels in myocardium. This results in increased systolic blood pressure and decreased diastolic blood pressure. The latter two effects act to produce the typical bounding pulse seen in hyperthyroidism.

    Development
    T3 has profound effect upon the developing embryo and infants. It affects the lungs and influences the postnatal growth of the central nervous system. It stimulates the production of myelin, the production of neurotransmitters, and the growth of axons. It is also important in the linear growth of bones.

    Neurotransmitters
    T3 may increase serotonin in the brain, in particular in the cerebral cortex, and down-regulate 5HT-2 receptors, based on studies in which T3 reversed learned helplessness in rats and physiological studies of the rat brain.


    T3 has a short half life!

    This may be started by doctors,bro science or w/e but the half life of Liothyronine or cytomel is 2.5 days.Confirmed by a local pharmacy and a doctor and the internet.No need to split dosage unless you feel hypo symptoms caused by the bigger doses(50-75 mcgs or higher)


    T3 must be used with an anabolic so you don't waste away!

    Again not for the lower doses but for the higher doses you MUST to retain even alittle muscle.At50 to 100 plus mcgs you will be burning muscle even with anabolics.This is a fact.


    You must taper up and down!

    God I wish this would die.After hundreds of post and everyone posting the same reason(perm thyroid damage) I found one that lead me to the conclusion this is a myth.Confirmed it aswell.Just like with clen,no need to tapper up or down but the sides can be a bit much if you don't.Also it's easier for your thyroid to recover if you come down slowly but you still can recover if you don't.This is one of those drugs where you need to acess how it reacts with your body.Start at 25 mcgs cause nobody wants to faint/throw it up by jumping right to 100mcgs.



    Interesting read about Regulation of Human Skeletal Muscle Gene Expression by Thyroid Hormone

    http://genome.cshlp.org/content/12/2/281.full

    Interesting read on Effects of hyperthyroidism on the sensitivity of glycolysis and
    glycogen synthesis to insulin in the soleus muscle of the rat ( hyperthyroidism effects at doses of 60+mcgs I'll look for a human study later)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...00228-0095.pdf


    NEW USEFULL INFO!

    While the primary athletic purpose of using thyroid drugs is to maintain an upgraded metabolism in the hope of burning bodyfat faster, such drugs are also used for other purposes. For example, injecting human growth hormone (GH) temporarily inhibits the release of a pituitary hormone called thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) that controls thyroid hormone release from the thyroid gland. Some athletes seek to overcome this GH side effect by taking thyroid drugs.

    In addition, GH itself will not work without an adequate thyroid output. This illustrates the many interactions between the body's hormones and why taking an isolated hormone can lead to imbalances in other hormones. GH also fosters the conversion of inactive T4 thyroid to the active T3 version. However, the fat-mobilizing effects associated with GH are not the result of this upgraded thyroid activity.

    Studies have concluded that bodybuilders who use anabolic steroids show impaired thyroid functions (Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 76:1069-7 1, 1993/American Journal of Sports Medicine, 15:357-61, 1987). The research confirmed that bodybuilders using large doses of steroids had increased TSH release, coupled with lower T3 levels. How the steroids do this isn't known.

    One theory is that large doses of steroids decrease a protein that binds with thyroid hormone in the blood. This, in turn, leads to higher blood levels of free thyroid hormone. This increased free-thyroid blood level is monitored by the brain's hypothalamus, which reacts by releasing less thyroid-stimulating hormone, leading to less thyroid output from the thyroid gland. This scenario is called "negative feedback inhibition," and is characteristic of several other hormones, including testosterone.

    For body composition purposes, the primary problem with using thyroid hormone at high doses is that it isn't specific to fat tissue. The upgraded metabolism that results from taking thyroid drugs also leads to increased muscle catabolism, or breakdown. This is particularly evident during the initial two weeks of using thyroid drugs. After that time, the body appears to compensate for the added thyroid intake, and muscle catabolism subsides to a limited degree.

    A SEMI recent report, published in the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism (82:765-70, 1997), examined what happens when a group of healthy young men used high doses of T3 drugs for 63 days. The study focused on the drug's effects on nitrogen balance (a measure of muscle function), body composition and energy expenditure. The men in the experiment were also randomly assigned to either low-fat or high-fat diets to assess the effects of thyroid and diet composition.

    By the six-week point in the study, the men using thyroid drugs showed losses in both muscle mass and bodyfat. As expected, nitrogen balance was negative during the first three weeks, pointing to increased muscle catabolism. But after three weeks, the nitrogen balance in the men on thyroid drugs returned to baseline values. At the nine-week mark, no significant changes in protein turnover occurred, but the men still showed increased usage of protein as energy.

    Consuming a high-fat diet appeared to decrease the fat-oxidizing effects associated with thyroid intake. However, the doses ofT3 drugs in this study were less than those typically used by some athletes. Regardless, this finding does indicate that thyroid drugs work belier at reducing fat stores if a low-fat diet is used in conjunction with the drug. CALMING THE STORM Another study, published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise (29:175- 80, 1997), looked at the effects of excess thyroid hormone on muscle function. It was discovered that having a surplus of active thyroid hormone, whether it results from a malady such as Graves' disease or from taking thyroid drugs, can lead to decreased muscular function through several mechanisms. People with Graves' disease, a clinical form of excess thyroid output, often display muscle weakness and impaired exercise tolerance.

    Bodybuilders who use thyroid drugs while attempting to carb load during the final week of their contest preparations may be wasting their time. The purpose of carb loading is to provide a fuller, more dense appearance to muscles. But taking thyroid drugs will inhibit glycogen synthesis at high doses. If a bodybuilder reduced his carb intake before the loading phase - as is the common practice - he may wind up looking "flat" onstage because the carbs simply won't kick in as expected due to the concomitant thyroid usage.

    Small amounts of thyroid, however, may be advantageous during low-carb dieting. If less than 40 grams of carbohydrate are consumed, the body turns on a survival mechanism to conserve lean body mass. One way it does this is by converting active thyroid hormone into an inactive version called "reverse T3." This mitigates muscle-tissue breakdown, but it also lowers the rate of fat- burning. To compensate, some athletes use small doses of Cytomel.

    The danger with this "solution," besides all the other inherent problems related to higher thyroid activity discussed earlier, is that excess(high doses) thyroid may also interfere with testosterone activity. Excess(high dose) thyroid hormone also increases the rate of synthesis of another protein that binds to insulinlike growth factor-I (IGF-l). This is significant because IGF 1 is thought to be the active ingredient of GH's beneficial effect on muscle. And, because it affects specialized satellite cells in muscle, IGF-l is also needed for muscle repair after exercise.




    I hope that cleared up some foggy info and thank you for reading.Sub for updates on my results.

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    Good post man, best of luck. Do you plan to run it in conjunction with clen? Certainly not necessary to reap the benefits, it just seems to be an incredibly popular stack.
    Quote Originally Posted by LiamTaylor View Post
    I push myself to limits everyday i train tbh, visited my mum yesterday and she said i looked a bit bigger, she doesnt know about the steroids
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenEarth View Post
    Good post man, best of luck. Do you plan to run it in conjunction with clen? Certainly not necessary to reap the benefits, it just seems to be an incredibly popular stack.
    For fat loss yeah.I am gaining and clen may hinder me in conjunction with T3.I'm at 8% bf so no worries about weight gain haha
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    Excellent post, t3 can be used for 9-10 months with 2 months off with out causing damage. If used appropriately. And anything below 12.5 mcg stimulates the thyroids natural production. So I don't taper, as u mention this is not needed, but my last week when I cycle it I drop to 10mcg. To help stim the thyroid, also I eat kelp. This is some what bro science but it is based off studies. I am currently at 50mcg of t3 per day. I will not go higher as this is double ur natural production. If I start to lose weight to fast I will drop dose down to 10mcg for a week or two. Then go to 25mcg.

    I rep u for this when I get home
    Christopher
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    subd. interested in this.
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    Great read! Thanks for the post.
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    People dont realize that people are misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism and have been on t3 for years and they still recover full thyroid lvls at the end of I believe 3 months. If I am remembering the case study correctly..... I will try and find it later.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I am now in a lean mass phase with a small t3 dose.25-30 mcgs as a nutrient partitioner.Most my my training has been done in a low carb/deficit state because of my love hate relationship with my genetics.Father is a rather large man and has been for most of his life.Mom is the same.Needless to say I lose alot of muscle staying lean or atleast trying to.Carbs are my enemy so to speak and excess calories seem to store quickly. So far my first dose today and I feel better after eating carbs than I used to,not tired at all.
    Over the next 3 weeks I'll be playing around with this serious drug.Here are some myths/misconceptions about t3 I have found in my research.

    T3 causes damage to your thyroid myth

    It dose indeed cause your natural t3 production to stop but you do recover as long as you don't go overboard.25mcgs ED even over 3 months won't damage your thyroid permanently .Of course this is for the general population mind you.If you go above 150mcgs thats getting a little much.Although rebound weight gain is almost writen in stone.


    T3 burns muscle!

    This is true at high doses (above 50 mcgs) coupled with low calories.At lower doses this shouldn't be a problem as long as your eating enough OVER maint level.



    T3 is a cutting drug and nothing more!

    Not true,nutrient partitioning aspect is great!Can be used in bulk/lean mass for better breakdown of/partitioning fats,carbs and protein.

    Heres info on the effects
    Effects of T3

    T3 increases the basal metabolic rate and, thus, increases the body's oxygen and energy consumption. The basal metabolic rate is the minimal caloric requirement needed to sustain life in a resting individual. T3 acts on the majority of tissues within the body, with a few exceptions including the spleen and testis. It increases the production of the Na+/K+ -ATPase and, in general, increases the turnover of different endogenous macromolecules by increasing their synthesis and degradation.

    Protein
    T3 stimulates the production of RNA Polymerase I and II and, therefore, increases the rate of protein synthesis. It also increases the rate of protein degradation, and, in excess, the rate of protein degradation exceeds the rate of protein synthesis. In such situations, the body may go into negative ion balance.

    Glucose
    T3 potentiates the effects of the β-adrenergic receptors on the metabolism of glucose. Therefore, it increases the rate of glycogen breakdown and glucose synthesis in gluconeogenesis.

    Lipids
    T3 stimulates the breakdown of cholesterol and increases the number of LDL receptors, thereby increasing the rate of lipolysis.

    Heart
    T3 increases the heart rate and force of contraction, thus increasing cardiac output, by increasing β-adrenergic receptor levels in myocardium. This results in increased systolic blood pressure and decreased diastolic blood pressure. The latter two effects act to produce the typical bounding pulse seen in hyperthyroidism.

    Development
    T3 has profound effect upon the developing embryo and infants. It affects the lungs and influences the postnatal growth of the central nervous system. It stimulates the production of myelin, the production of neurotransmitters, and the growth of axons. It is also important in the linear growth of bones.

    Neurotransmitters
    T3 may increase serotonin in the brain, in particular in the cerebral cortex, and down-regulate 5HT-2 receptors, based on studies in which T3 reversed learned helplessness in rats and physiological studies of the rat brain.


    T3 has a short half life!

    This may be started by doctors,bro science or w/e but the half life of Liothyronine or cytomel is 2.5 days.Confirmed by a local pharmacy and a doctor and the internet.No need to split dosage unless you feel hypo symptoms caused by the bigger doses(50-75 mcgs or higher)


    T3 must be used with an anabolic so you don't waste away!

    Again not for the lower doses but for the higher doses you MUST to retain even alittle muscle.At50 to 100 plus mcgs you will be burning muscle even with anabolics.This is a fact.


    You must taper up and down!

    God I wish this would die.After hundreds of post and everyone posting the same reason(perm thyroid damage) I found one that lead me to the conclusion this is a myth.Confirmed it aswell.Just like with clen,no need to tapper up or down but the sides can be a bit much if you don't.Also it's easier for your thyroid to recover if you come down slowly but you still can recover if you don't.This is one of those drugs where you need to acess how it reacts with your body.Start at 25 mcgs cause nobody wants to faint/throw it up by jumping right to 100mcgs.



    I hope that cleared up some foggy info and thank you for reading.Sub for updates on my results.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    People dont realize that people are misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism and have been on t3 for years and they still recover full thyroid lvls at the end of I believe 3 months. If I am remembering the case study correctly..... I will try and find it later.
    Yes you r remembering correctly.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    People dont realize that people are misdiagnosed with hypothyroidism and have been on t3 for years and they still recover full thyroid lvls at the end of I believe 3 months. If I am remembering the case study correctly..... I will try and find it later.
    I know the study your refering to and ill link it when I get home.Also something to consider some if not most anabolics also cause t3 to come to a screeching halt aswell. Alot of pro's use it along cycle to counteract this aswell as other things.
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    I am slightly concerned with running it at 50mcg but I'm monitoring it pretty closely.i would love to cycle it with s4.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Yeah the thyroid is a tank of an organ especially for the endocrine system. I was debating throwing in low dosed T3 in my current cut still might.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/223429-abscent-minded-log.html
    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbil
    Yeah the thyroid is a tank of an organ especially for the endocrine system. I was debating throwing in low dosed T3 in my current cut still might.
    A calorie negative slows thyroid function down. As long as you are responsable I dont see why it would hurt. It will cirtanly rid you of the need of a refeed or cheat day to normalize t3
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    I used a liqued T3' I taperd up to 100mgs' 1ml' I did this on my last cycle' i feel it had no effect' I got it from a pretty good place' was thinking maybe my thyroid was messed up to start' but I'm not fat and can lose weight not to hard' was using a slin pin to dose then I read the particles may be to large to fit through' so started dossing through the back of tube with stopper pulled out. Still nothing. I leaned out but not how I expected or read I would' was I expecting to much? U think it was just bunk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalT81
    I used a liqued T3' I taperd up to 100mgs' 1ml' I did this on my last cycle' i feel it had no effect' I got it from a pretty good place' was thinking maybe my thyroid was messed up to start' but I'm not fat and can lose weight not to hard' was using a slin pin to dose then I read the particles may be to large to fit through' so started dossing through the back of tube with stopper pulled out. Still nothing. I leaned out but not how I expected or read I would' was I expecting to much? U think it was just bunk?
    Probably. I actually felt mine. Almost like a stimulant.I could tell when I took it.

    Depends how it was stored /if your in austin texas like I am the heat is baddd.Use an oral siringe next time
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    I don't notice any stimulant effects. But I sweat my balls off all day. Same way with Clen, I dose at 200mcg a day I get no shakes or craps. I dj get elevated bp and again I swear my balls off!
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179
    I don't notice any stimulant effects. But I sweat my balls off all day. Same way with Clen, I dose at 200mcg a day I get no shakes or craps. I dj get elevated bp and again I swear my balls off!
    Not quite a stimulation but you could feel it hit ya.
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    Yeah I get that, I feel strange the first hour or so, and the. I'm hungry and sweaty all day
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    And thirsty
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Yeah I get that, I feel strange the first hour or so, and the. I'm hungry and sweaty all day
    YES!Exactly!
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    First day recap.I am noticing the effect.Actually having energy after I eat instead of going into a food coma for about an hour.Could this be the god send I am looking for?Lets see how it effects my body image after a few days.
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    I am excited to see your results I am sure you will kill it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Pin the kittens with the tren, then attack the judges with the kittens, uppity bastards
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    Especially when I carb up. I seem to sweat more.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179
    Yeah I get that, I feel strange the first hour or so, and the. I'm hungry and sweaty all day
    Yeah man I can feel my metabolism spike at every meal also. No matter how much I eat little or a lot I get like a boost and real hot.
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    In to learn more about T3

    Im eating Leangains diet and I always crash after my first big carb meal.
    "above all else, WILLINGNESS is the most effective at reaching your goals"
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel11
    In to learn more about T3

    Im eating Leangains diet and I always crash after my first big carb meal.
    I am an endo even at 8%body fat. I get sluggish after meals because of my body and insulin spikes dont mix. T3 so far has helped that..damn near destroyed it.
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    Hi Guys,

    I'm naturally hyperthyroid - I have a condition called Graves Disease - and I'm also a medical student. So if you need any information I can try to help. Otherwise, I've posted some info below.

    First off a disclaimer - I don't advise anyone on doing this.

    Basically what you're doing with thyroxine tablets is similar to steroids - they both act on the hypothalamus and pituitary but in this case it ends with the thyroid.

    If you put exogenous t3 (tri-iodothyronine) into your body, it will reduce production of endogenous T3 in your thyroid. So long term effects of this could be that your thyroid may shrink and become obsolete eventually. This would give you hypothyroidism. I don't know many patients who have been hypothyroid and recovered to a euthyroid state (i.e. normal thyroid function).

    T3 and T4 are hormones involved in metabolism. Therefore, weight loss and heat intolerance indicate increased metabolism, but other symptoms of anxiety tend to occur: flushing, palpitations, tremor, diarrhoea...

    One week where my levels were particularly high I seemed to lose 2kg. It was crazy how the weight dropped off. It didn't particularly affect the muscles. I have to say with free T3 and T4 levels, symptoms are pretty much none existent (apart from a little weight loss and heat) until it hits a threshold and then all symptoms seem to appear. All symptoms appear at once and until the hormone levels reduce to under this threshold, they won't go.

    If you're going to do this, don't do it long term because you don't want to be playing with the hormone axis for too long. Treat it like a steroid with no pct.

    Hope this helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flook1e View Post
    Hi Guys,

    I'm naturally hyperthyroid - I have a condition called Graves Disease - and I'm also a medical student. So if you need any information I can try to help. Otherwise, I've posted some info below.

    First off a disclaimer - I don't advise anyone on doing this.

    Basically what you're doing with thyroxine tablets is similar to steroids - they both act on the hypothalamus and pituitary but in this case it ends with the thyroid.

    If you put exogenous t3 (tri-iodothyronine) into your body, it will reduce production of endogenous T3 in your thyroid. So long term effects of this could be that your thyroid may shrink and become obsolete eventually. This would give you hypothyroidism. I don't know many patients who have been hypothyroid and recovered to a euthyroid state (i.e. normal thyroid function).

    T3 and T4 are hormones involved in metabolism. Therefore, weight loss and heat intolerance indicate increased metabolism, but other symptoms of anxiety tend to occur: flushing, palpitations, tremor, diarrhoea...

    One week where my levels were particularly high I seemed to lose 2kg. It was crazy how the weight dropped off. It didn't particularly affect the muscles. I have to say with free T3 and T4 levels, symptoms are pretty much none existent (apart from a little weight loss and heat) until it hits a threshold and then all symptoms seem to appear. All symptoms appear at once and until the hormone levels reduce to under this threshold, they won't go.

    If you're going to do this, don't do it long term because you don't want to be playing with the hormone axis for too long. Treat it like a steroid with no pct.

    Hope this helps.
    this seems to contradict everything that was posted on the first page.
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    I said that a risk is atrophy of the thyroid or loss of function of the thyroid. I am unsure how big of a risk this is - there is no clinical evidence available.

    Regarding point two. Hypothyroidism is commonly caused by a blood reaction against the thyroid and it is uncommon for patients to recover function. If you put exogenous T3 into a normal body, you don't become "Hypothyroid". Essentially, you are still "euthyroid" but have exogenous T3.
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