M1T at the beginning or end of a cycle or ?
- 10-17-2004, 07:13 PM
M1T at the beginning or end of a cycle or ?
I posted this query elsewhere, but I'm curious what the AM census is. Since 2 weeks seems to be a desirable length to run M1T, do you think it is better at the beginning of a long cycle (to "kick it off", because of its efficacy) or at the end (because of the massive shutdown) or elsewhere, perhaps even more than once during the cycle? Also, what are your experiences with cycles which include M1T and what else did you use?
My last cycle went like this, and was very good:
1. 4AD, 1T
2. 4AD, 1T
3. 4AD, 1T, M1T
4. 4AD, 1T, M1T
5. 1T, M4OHN, M5AA
6. 1T, M4OHN, M5AA
7. 1T, M4OHN, 3-ALPHA
8. 1T, M4OHN, 3-ALPHA
- 10-17-2004, 07:38 PM
I'll be the first to ask for you to elaborate on the effectiveness of your last cycle. What does "very good" mean? How did you run it?
- 10-17-2004, 09:21 PM
Awright...admittedly, I'm kind of a slacker compared to some of you guys regarding cycle logs, stat-tracking, and so on. The overall result was 11 lbs gained during the 1st weeks, some of which was water, lost during the last 4 "cut" weeks. Strength/poundages went up I'd say about 10%, and body comp effects of this cycle were excellent; I noticed fat loss and muscle gain throughout, ending up with a grand total of only 5lb gain, but clearly this was LBM, and considering fat loss, LBM gain was even greater.
I used 600mg 4AD and 300mg 1T t/d daily to start, dropping them both by 50% or more weeks 3-4 due to bloating hell. Also kicked some letro in, 1.25mg EOD.
I ran the M1T at 10mg/day weeks 3-4.
I started the M4OHN and M5AA at 24mg and 50mg/day, respectively, ending up at 40mg and 100mg. I switched the M5 to 3-Alpha 150mg/day t/d (weeks 7-8) to ease up on the methyls.
Oh, and PCT weeks 9-13 include Nolva, Trib, ZMA. Liver support/"sides" control throughout the cycle and PCT include milk thistle, potassium, taurine, hawthorne, CoQ10, ALA, NAC, vitamins and extra H2O.
11-02-2004, 09:04 AM
Well i'd say its most worthy place is right at the beginning, but if your not using hcg your nuts are gonna shrink bad....Its a good, fast acting compound, I feel the effets within days of taking it, so imo its great for jumpstarting a cycle, kinda like dbol \(although ive never used it)...
11-02-2004, 09:33 AM
The big question for me is whether the shutdown from M1T is so brutal, it is a negative for the rest of the cycle to do it right off the bat. Obviously while using PS/PH's throughout you would ostensibly not lack "T". But would it be better to start with mellower (shutdown-wise) substances, then end with the big M1T? I've been putting M1T kinda in the middle (as stated) to let 4AD/1T kick in. Of course, either way, you hit PCT with nothin' doin' in the nut dept. I still lean towards kicking off the cycle with M1T rather than later on.
11-02-2004, 09:56 AM
Personally, I would run it for the first 4 weeks, lowering your dose during weeks 3-4. However, I don't seem to suffer from too many sides from M1T.
11-02-2004, 10:46 AM
in a 1-test cyp cycle I may prefer to run it at the end while I'm waiting for the cyps to clear before PCT.
11-08-2004, 08:06 AM
Do you think you should run 4ad weeks 1-3 and then m1t week2-3, to avoid the sides?
Then continue with the cycle as normal from week 4 on.
Or just put up with the sided and run it week 1 and 2?
11-08-2004, 09:36 AM
Personally, I would front load the 4AD. I believe the cycle would be more comfortable.
11-08-2004, 10:59 AM
I was thinking the same thing, it's still only 2 weeks on m1t after all, out of 8 weeks total(usually anyway.)
11-12-2004, 11:51 AM
I am on a 6 week cycle of with s1+. I jumpstarted my cycle with M1T for weeks 1-2. I have now been off M1T for two weeks, but still on the s1+. Would it do good, harm, or nothing if I finished my last week(s) with M1T since I will already be shutdown?
11-12-2004, 03:01 PM
Well, I'm finishing up a 4 week cycle:
1-2 M1T 20mg ED
3-4 M5AA [week 3 30mg ED - week 4 70 mg ED]
Seemed shutdown was brief at best, I don't usually suffer many sides to begin with, and M5AA tightened me up, i got much leaner, and still put on 4 more pounds and strength keeps climbing. (Right on!)
Anyway, I feel from this cycle inclined to think the M1T is a fine way to jumpstart the cycle and plan on doing this type of two week M1T starter in future cycles.
I'm going to 'baby' my liver for the next few during PCT, and make sure my diet is stellar to avoid losing too much. I'm just feeling like I'm going to keep the majority of it at this point.
12-14-2004, 07:47 AM
You may be already shut down but the best gains come (average) during the first two weeks of a M1T cycle because you're starting fresh (fully recovered). I'm not sure if a two week pseudo break will do anything. However, there is only one way to find out. Personally, I would just do the first two weeks.Originally Posted by 5111
12-14-2004, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by silverSurfer
There's no way to recover natty test production while during the middle two weeks. The "cruising period" does nothing but use less androgens.
I also say put it at the start of your cycle when your receptors are free and clear.
12-14-2004, 03:28 PM
that's a rather interesting cycle - except those M5 doses look really low considering its super-short half-life. that cycle would take care of the bloat from M1T - i reckon id be nervous about having M5 as the ONLY androgen supporting my virtually completely suppressed test production.Originally Posted by Grim Repper
12-14-2004, 03:29 PM
I'd beg to differ that the shutdown was brief. It may not have looked to bad but after seeing the bloodwork of those who have used M1T, the shutdown is HARD regardless of what it seemed. After 2 or 4 week cycles natty test levels were at 17 I think instead of at least 300? Not to mention M1T shuts you down in a matter of days and you aren't going to start producing your own test until PCT and then some. I'll double check w/ the figures but my point is that shutdown doesn't always look or feel as harsh as it actually is.Originally Posted by Grim Repper
12-14-2004, 03:31 PM
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