Winny tabs or masteron?

[technique88]

Hey everybody, I am throwing a few ideas around on a cycle I plan to run starting in July. My goal: basically a recomp. I want a little size, drop BF, harden my physique, and really get vascular as f*%K! My debate lies with masteron or winny...I wants some thoughts on what everybody thinks. Here are 2 different cycle lay outs:

Cycle 1)

Turinabol 50mg ed week 1-6
Test E 500 mg/week 1-12
Masteron E 400mg/week 3-12
Aromasin week 3: 20mg ed
week 4- 19 10mg eod (1 week past PCT)
* aromasin may just be kept on hand during mast run and used during PCT

Cycle 2)

Turinabol 50mg ed week 1-6
Test E 500mg/week 1-12
Winny tabs 50mg ed week 7-13
aromasin week 3: 20mg ed
week 4- 19 10mg eod (1 week past PCT)

PCT: week 14-18

Nolva 40/20/20/10
DAA 3g ed
aromasin as stated above.

I will also be running Toco-8 throughout the entire cycle/ PCT.

In terms of my goals what do you guys think would give me the best results?

I am 230 lb and will be consuming 2g of protein per lb of body weight, 1g of carbs per lb, and 0.5g of fat per lb.
All clean foods.

 

[burlyman]

Go with the Mast. It'll keep you using only one methyl during the cycle. And you'll have more weeks on mast than you would on winny. I'd bump the Tbol to 8 weeks, though.

 

[technique88]

Go with the Mast. It'll keep you using only one methyl during the cycle. And you'll have more weeks on mast than you would on winny. I'd bump the Tbol to 8 weeks, though.

Thanx buddy, have you used Tbol for? What did you notice in terms of types of gains and sides...

 

[burlyman]

Tbol is a non-aromatizing, no-bloat, lean tissue gainer. It increases glycogen retention, but not to the degree of Dbol or Anadrol. Strength goes up, but not immensely. It's a great compound in my opinion. One of my favorites. Some people might get headaches/BP issues from it, but that's not an issue I usually deal with on a cycle. Because you don't get the massive bloat of one of the other bulking orals, you also don't lose a massive amount of size at the end. Of course, I always recommend liver support of TUDCA.

 

[technique88]

Tbol is a non-aromatizing, no-bloat, lean tissue gainer. It increases glycogen retention, but not to the degree of Dbol or Anadrol. Strength goes up, but not immensely. It's a great compound in my opinion. One of my favorites. Some people might get headaches/BP issues from it, but that's not an issue I usually deal with on a cycle. Because you don't get the massive bloat of one of the other bulking orals, you also don't lose a massive amount of size at the end. Of course, I always recommend liver support of TUDCA.

Sounds good to me. My body fat is definitely higher than 10% and I hear masteron's results are geared towards lower BF...is it a better fat shredder/ hardening agent than winny?

 

[superbeast668]

Sounds good to me. My body fat is definitely higher than 10% and I hear masteron's results are geared towards lower BF...is it a better fat shredder/ hardening agent than winny?

i've always heard the same about masteron.

just an idea. sometimes simple things dont process in my mind. drop the tbol. winny and masteron along with test e. your still going to put on a ton of lean mass either way and cut up a bit.

what is your bf% at anyways?

 

[technique88]

i've always heard the same about masteron.

just an idea. sometimes simple things dont process in my mind. drop the tbol. winny and masteron along with test e. your still going to put on a ton of lean mass either way and cut up a bit.

what is your bf% at anyways?

I'm not too sure what it is right now. I plan on going to get evaluated soon. I'm still doing a lot of planning (diet, work out routine etc..) so now I'm trying to get ideas. If I were to run your idea would you run the mast like I have and throw in winny last 6 weeks?

 

[technique88]

i've always heard the same about masteron.

just an idea. sometimes simple things dont process in my mind. drop the tbol. winny and masteron along with test e. your still going to put on a ton of lean mass either way and cut up a bit.

what is your bf% at anyways?

Also, I forgot to add...the tbol is for a kicker with dry gains. Maybe throw in SD for a kicker?

 

[burlyman]

Masteron is a good hardener. So is Winny. But I would not consider any AAS to be fat shredders. That's not what they are intended for. They can help you use food for muscle building instead of fat deposition, but they don't shred you up. Fat shredding happens in the kitchen, plain and simple.

 

[technique88]

Masteron is a good hardener. So is Winny. But I would not consider any AAS to be fat shredders. That's not what they are intended for. They can help you use food for muscle building instead of fat deposition, but they don't shred you up. Fat shredding happens in the kitchen, plain and simple.

Well put. My diet will be on point. I guess I should have worded it toawrds good lean dry gains.

 

[technique88]

Masteron is a good hardener. So is Winny. But I would not consider any AAS to be fat shredders. That's not what they are intended for. They can help you use food for muscle building instead of fat deposition, but they don't shred you up. Fat shredding happens in the kitchen, plain and simple.

As for the test e...I can get 10 mL vials, 250mg/mL. I am 225 (just throwing that in there because I'm unsure if weight matters in terms of dose) with this gear I could run 12 weeks at 625mg/week or 15 weeks of 500mg/ week. What would be the best method?

 

[burlyman]

500mg for 15 is what "I" would do, but others might lean toward the other option. I always prefer lower doses and more weeks when looking at cycles.

 

[DangerDave]

Check my log bro. Im starting my recomp of Dbol/Test E/Winny this weekend. I would go with 500mg EW. I have never used Mast so I cant chime in on that.

 

[technique88]

Check my log bro. Im starting my recomp of Dbol/Test E/Winny this weekend. I would go with 500mg EW. I have never used Mast so I cant chime in on that.

Definitely will be subd on that one. I gues the reason why I shyed away from 500mg/ for 15 weeks was due to this being my first cycle and I felt maybe shorter is geared towards being better for a beginner.

 

[technique88]

Could you tbol and winny at the same time or is that too much on the liver?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Could you tbol and winny at the same time or is that too much on the liver?

Too much bro.

 

[DangerDave]

I wouldn't run them together personally. You could do a nice 12 weeks of injections of 500mg ew and then week 14 start your PCT. that gives you about 10 weeks "On"

The thing with longer cycles is how long do you want to be shutdown? The longer you are shutdown the longer the recovery. Do you want one maybe 2 big cycles a year? Or 4 smaller ones?

I'm running 16 weeks total as of right now. Might cut it back to 14. This will be my last long cycle (using up some Test E). Just because I would like to do more than 2 cycles in a year... food for thought bro. Either way its legit and gains will be epic!

 

[technique88]

I wouldn't run them together personally. You could do a nice 12 weeks of injections of 500mg ew and then week 14 start your PCT. that gives you about 10 weeks "On"

The thing with longer cycles is how long do you want to be shutdown? The longer you are shutdown the longer the recovery. Do you want one maybe 2 big cycles a year? Or 4 smaller ones?

I'm running 16 weeks total as of right now. Might cut it back to 14. This will be my last long cycle (using up some Test E). Just because I would like to do more than 2 cycles in a year... food for thought bro. Either way its legit and gains will be epic!

I am going to do 12 weeks. Just because I'm a beginner and want my PCT to be simple and effective. I don't mind the "on" phase but when dealing with PCT it definitely takes a lot of experience to really perfect it. With 12 weeks I'm doing winny last u6 weeks and exchanged tbol for SD. Money wasn't an issue before but I had some unexpected financial obligations come up. SD is a lot cheaper. I also kinda want to get real beefy =) ill save drying up and leaning out for end of my cycle and after. I'm hoping to be around 245 after cycle.

 

[DangerDave]

Sounds like a good plan bro. SD is KING!!!

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

I am going to do 12 weeks. Just because I'm a beginner and want my PCT to be simple and effective. I don't mind the "on" phase but when dealing with PCT it definitely takes a lot of experience to really perfect it. With 12 weeks I'm doing winny last u6 weeks and exchanged tbol for SD. Money wasn't an issue before but I had some unexpected financial obligations come up. SD is a lot cheaper. I also kinda want to get real beefy =) ill save drying up and leaning out for end of my cycle and after. I'm hoping to be around 245 after cycle.

Sounds legit bro.

 

[technique88]

Sounds like a good plan bro. SD is KING!!!

I'm so impatient I want to cycle now lol. I got my post bloods done and I'm completely normal.

 

[technique88]

But of course I'm going to have patience. I'm going to e leaning out as much as I can

 

[carnivore24]

The thing with longer cycles is how long do you want to be shutdown? The longer you are shutdown the longer the recovery.

Does anyone know if there's any prove of this? Not trying to sound like a dick but this seems like bro science all the way. If your body stops production and you lh and fsh are both low. Why would it matter to your body for how long?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Does anyone know if there's any prove of this? Not trying to sound like a dick but this seems like bro science all the way. If your body stops production and you lh and fsh are both low. Why would it matter to your body for how long?

Its not broscience bro. What's worse your testicles being atrophied for 8 weeks or 14 weeks, think about it?

 

[superbeast668]

Does anyone know if there's any prove of this? Not trying to sound like a dick but this seems like bro science all the way. If your body stops production and you lh and fsh are both low. Why would it matter to your body for how long?

You dont shut down immediately unless youre using 19nor based gear. With test, Its more like a decline and the longer youre on the more chance of shut down. 19nors... deca and tren will shut your **** down in one shot.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

You dont shut down immediately unless youre using 19nor based gear. With test, Its more like a decline and the longer youre on the more chance of shut down. 19nors... deca and tren will shut your **** down in one shot.

Str8 up man.

 

[technique88]

Anyone have any thoughts on proviron? When to run it, is it even worth running?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Anyone have any thoughts on proviron? When to run it, is it even worth running?

Its really only used to help keep estrogen at bay like an AI would. Proviron(mesterolone) is really androgenic, so some ppl do use it for estrogen control but its minimally anabolic.

 

[burlyman]

Its really only used to help keep estrogen at bay like an AI would. Proviron(mesterolone) is really androgenic, so some ppl do use it for estrogen control but its minimally anabolic.

This ^^^. I would always rather use Proviron over an AI on a cycle that aromatized. The additional androgens are great for strength and hardness as well as mitigating E2 sides.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

This ^^^. I would always rather use Proviron over an AI on a cycle that aromatized. The additional androgens are great for strength and hardness as well as mitigating E2 sides.

Yeah u think more ppl would use it during cycle

 

[technique88]

This ^^^. I would always rather use Proviron over an AI on a cycle that aromatized. The additional androgens are great for strength and hardness as well as mitigating E2 sides.

So proviron would be much better to use than adex? I want to keep the bloat down as much as possible.

 

[technique88]

Also what mg do you run it at? Do you run it everyday? And do you run it through PCT?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

So proviron would be much better to use than adex? I want to keep the bloat down as much as possible.

Supposedly its as effective as adex, but it will help with hardness. Plus proviron binds to SBHG so it will make other anabolics you're on more potent.

 

[burlyman]

Also what mg do you run it at? Do you run it everyday? And do you run it through PCT?

Start at 75mg/day and adjust upward if you need to. You could run it at 50mg through PCT without issue--it won't suppress and is great to keep E2 in check during the PCT period when your natural androgen/estrogen ratio is out of whack.

 

[technique88]

Start at 75mg/day and adjust upward if you need to. You could run it at 50mg through PCT without issue--it won't suppress and is great to keep E2 in check during the PCT period when your natural androgen/estrogen ratio is out of whack.

Will it help make PCT less "rough"?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

Will it help make PCT less "rough"?

Not really any less rough than using an AI during pct.

 

[technique88]

My source provides 50 tabs of 50mg winny. What do you would yield most optimum benefits from winny: 7 weeks of 50mg ed or 5 weeks of 50mg ed and the 6th week 100mg ed?

 

[DangerDave]

Don't do 100mg your joints will kill you. 6 weeks max is the rule of thumb for oral winny length. Keep it at 50mg it will take a week or 2 to kick in so be patient.

 

[fueledpassion]

Masteron gets my vote. Be ready to bump it if your joints aren't hurting

 

[carnivore24]

i def understand the longer your on test scenario, but still i was wondering if theres any science to back up what your saying. if you take a 19nor of something else that will shut you down hard. whats the diff if its 3 weeks vs 50 weeks?

saying well your testies being out of action for 50 weeks is worse cuz its longer is the definition of broscience. again not trying to sound like a dick. it more than likley is true and may be nothing to back it up but i just want to see if there is. because on paper what your saying should be right but we all know our bodies dont always react the same or how they should.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

i def understand the longer your on test scenario, but still i was wondering if theres any science to back up what your saying. if you take a 19nor of something else that will shut you down hard. whats the diff if its 3 weeks vs 50 weeks?

saying well your testies being out of action for 50 weeks is worse cuz its longer is the definition of broscience. again not trying to sound like a dick. it more than likley is true and may be nothing to back it up but i just want to see if there is. because on paper what your saying should be right but we all know our bodies dont always react the same or how they should.

On paper shutdown is shutdown, your LH level would probly b the same with 10 weeks or 20 weeks, but the point is I've seen in all cases of ppl I know who did very long cycles their recovery was very rough and much longer than when they did shorter cycles and recovered in 4-6 weeks. Don't u think we would all run 30 week cycles if the level of shutdown and recovery time was the same versus an 8 week cycle?

 

[carnivore24]

First off I wanna say I do side with the longer the cycle probably the longer the recovery just hoping someone had prove.

As far as everyone running 30 week cycles are not popular because of the health side effects. Running even high levels of test alone isn't great for you for that long not to mention what tren would do to you. And your body kinda figures out what's going on after awhile and gains drastically slow after 8 weeks or so. Anabolic hormones are Hgh but your body has raised your catabolic hormones also.

So in no way do I think people should do 6 month cycles but just wanted to see if theres any prove of shutdown of 8 weeks vs 52 or what have you

 

[DetroitHammer]

i def understand the longer your on test scenario, but still i was wondering if theres any science to back up what your saying. if you take a 19nor of something else that will shut you down hard. whats the diff if its 3 weeks vs 50 weeks?

saying well your testies being out of action for 50 weeks is worse cuz its longer is the definition of broscience. again not trying to sound like a dick. it more than likley is true and may be nothing to back it up but i just want to see if there is. because on paper what your saying should be right but we all know our bodies dont always react the same or how they should.

There are plenty of guys on TRT for years and decide to get off it and recover with zero PCT. Conversely, I know of young guys, 19 years old, who after one cycle of test/deca shut down hard and two years later were still shut down. I know both them and their doctor.

There is no proof beforehand how your body will respond to any AAS. What shuts one guy down may send you into libido heaven. Tren comes to mind as one of those roll-the-dice compounds. Even the cycle time recommended by most guys is just a mark on the wall that everyone seems to agree to. In my opinion, if you stop a cycle at 12 weeks or 40 weeks, your recovery will be the same given the same PCT. It's not the shut down that dictates the cycle, it's the other damage, like RBC, Lipid profile and liver toxicity that keeps the cycle within the 16 week range. So if your only concern is natural testosterone recovery, no matter what you take, recovery should be the same regardless of the weeks on AAS, given the same on-cycle support and PCT.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

First off I wanna say I do side with the longer the cycle probably the longer the recovery just hoping someone had prove.

As far as everyone running 30 week cycles are not popular because of the health side effects. Running even high levels of test alone isn't great for you for that long not to mention what tren would do to you. And your body kinda figures out what's going on after awhile and gains drastically slow after 8 weeks or so. Anabolic hormones are Hgh but your body has raised your catabolic hormones also.

So in no way do I think people should do 6 month cycles but just wanted to see if theres any prove of shutdown of 8 weeks vs 52 or what have you

I totally agree with u. Its not healthy by any means to run a cycle that long. I don't have any of my friend's bloodwork to post but in all honesty they all said recovery was brutal and much longer than shorter cycles they ran.

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

There are plenty of guys on TRT for years and decide to get off it and recover with zero PCT. Conversely, I know of young guys, 19 years old, who after one cycle of test/deca shut down hard and two years later were still shut down. I know both them and their doctor.

There is no proof beforehand how your body will respond to any AAS. What shuts one guy down may send you into libido heaven. Tren comes to mind as one of those roll-the-dice compounds. Even the cycle time recommended by most guys is just a mark on the wall that everyone seems to agree to. In my opinion, if you stop a cycle at 12 weeks or 40 weeks, your recovery will be the same given the same PCT. It's not the shut down that dictates the cycle, it's the other damage, like RBC, Lipid profile and liver toxicity that keeps the cycle within the 16 week range. So if your only concern is natural testosterone recovery, no matter what you take, recovery should be the same regardless of the weeks on AAS, given the same on-cycle support and PCT.

Good point. Everyone is an individual.

 

[carnivore24]

There are plenty of guys on TRT for years and decide to get off it and recover with zero PCT. Conversely, I know of young guys, 19 years old, who after one cycle of test/deca shut down hard and two years later were still shut down. I know both them and their doctor.

There is no proof beforehand how your body will respond to any AAS. What shuts one guy down may send you into libido heaven. Tren comes to mind as one of those roll-the-dice compounds. Even the cycle time recommended by most guys is just a mark on the wall that everyone seems to agree to. In my opinion, if you stop a cycle at 12 weeks or 40 weeks, your recovery will be the same given the same PCT. It's not the shut down that dictates the cycle, it's the other damage, like RBC, Lipid profile and liver toxicity that keeps the cycle within the 16 week range. So if your only concern is natural testosterone recovery, no matter what you take, recovery should be the same regardless of the weeks on AAS, given the same on-cycle support and PCT.

This is pretty much what I was thinking. I kinda always thought recovery was really up to your genetic profile or whatever you wanna call it. And shut down was shut down no matter how long. Thanks

 

[technique88]

I'm thinking of throwing in some test suspension, micronized in water, for an extra boost on some of my harder work out days. I won't be using it everyday just here and there. I was wondering how many mg/mL to use pre work out and wyen to inj.?

 

[Dr.Stri8ed]

I'm thinking of throwing in some test suspension, micronized in water, for an extra boost on some of my harder work out days. I won't be using it everyday just here and there. I was wondering how many mg/mL to use pre work out and wyen to inj.?

50-75mg 1 hour before your workout.