Which pro-hormone is right for my goals?

[LearnAnabolic]

I've been looking into prohormones recently as an introduction to Anabolic compounds. Through my research I've found two compounds that I've been looking at:

4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17bdiol (I believe this is Halotest/Halodrol?)

and

3Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One (I believe this is called Andro1/Androsteine? Forgive my ignorance!)

My goals is quality lean muscle gain mass, and added fat loss would be nice. I want to basically add some moderate mass while leaning out more. I'm around 9-10 bf, with a visible 6 pack, but I want to take it to that "shredded" level. I think a small reduction in BF and a few pounds of lean mass is what I need. I want something mild my first time around with prohormones. I really REALLY want to minimize risk in the realm of gyno, hair loss, acne, shutdown, etc. Its not worth gyno/hairloss/an eternally ****ed up hormonal system for it. But it seems with moderation, knowledge, and excecution, you can manage a good outcome.

In terms of methylated compounds and liver toxicity. I do no drink alcohol, I eat super clean/organic (no processed foods), and take no medications for anything. No recreational drugs either. Would a cycle of a methylated prohormone risk any serious permanent damage, even if supplemented with thistle/nac?

Pros of
4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17bdiol:

Leaning out.
Decent muscle mass gains.
No aromatization! Gyno/other sides miniminum!
PCT doesn't cost as much, doesn't require SERM/etc?


Cons:
Methalyated
I hear the gains are hard to keep (if you put on 10lbs, you will be lucky to keep 3/4, which for me is fine, I hear this is due to the majority of the gain being intracellular water, is this true?)

Pros of: Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One

More moderate mass gains.
Converts to straight testosterone, 1-testosterone (is this true, does this compound actually break down into the same t that we create in our testes? or close enough. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the info on this one?)

Cons:
Risk of aromatization,
PCT is more involved, requires more products/SERM?
Does not lend itself to a leaner/harder physique compared to Halotest/drol?

Just looking for info/guidance here. My pros/cons are what I've seem to have gathered from research, feel free to correct me. If you have any other suggestions, please share. Stats: 23/5'8/155/BF ~ 9-10%. Basically want to fill out/look bigger after my cut. I just lost 30lbs since Dec, and while I am happy with my leaness, I want to take it to the next level while gaining back some of the mass/size/fullness I lost, and gaining some hardness.

I've seen some great help on these forums, better than I could seem to gather from other sites, most people here seem to be educated/experienced/into the science of things!

 

[musclemaniac]

4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17bdiol is a dry compound that causes little to no water retention, so it is best stacked with a wet compound like 4-androsterone or 19Nor-Androsterone or 3Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One. This is because you will want some estrogen in your system when taking a dry compound like this. Wet compounds add in additional stimulation and cause an increased effect.

4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-diene-3,17 diol - Halodrol-50 was introduced by Gaspari Nutrition and is a prosteroid of Turinabol, the banned East German designer steroid. This means it converts to Turinabol once ingested. Although Halodrol is no longer available, there are generic clones available such as P-Mag, Halo-Plex, H-Drol, Halovar, or Hemadrol. Solid gains in muscle and strength. Often taken while cutting to help preserve muscle mass.

3Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One is the last legal prohormone on the market that can convert into testosterone. Testosterone is the body’s natural androgen and is in my opinion the only steroid you really want to take if you don’t want nasty side effects. Testosterone is best. but in the US, testosterone is illegal. You can however use 3Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One, the last legal androgen that converts to testosterone. You can’t just take this supplement however to get great results, you need it mixed with the right anti-estrogens and activators to make it active. 3Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One available such as LG Sciences Methyl Masterdrol V3, M1D Black.

 

[Gerbil]

Okay before I recommend anything I need your height and weight, training history, and age.

 

[TestEinstein]

He posted stats. Look at the last paragraph.

I wouldn't cycle at 155 lbs if I were you...would concentrate on natural building. It's not the answer you want, I know. If you're going to cycle, and you've completed research to attain a level of knowledge to be competent (usually takes about 3-6 months, but depends on you) then my recommendation would be halodrol. Halotestin(fluoxymesterone) is a different compound, so keep them separate. Halodrol is the main beginner product, but has a wide range of side effects.

Personally, I think you should probably do a ton more reading before you try to start matching your goals to any specific product. And in the meantime, train for mass (6-8 reps, heavy, compound) with protein high and carbs moderate. I think you have a lot of genetic potential to go, and after your first cycle it will be near impossible to gain without more gear.

 

[jbryand101b]

Wtf if up with all these long ass profiles.

What was the question?

 

[roblasane]

Wtf if up with all these long ass profiles.

What was the question?

I agree ! I punched out after a few lines

 

[LearnAnabolic]

Sorry, I really like to give detailed information, thats just me, I like to be complete rathering than lacking.

I am 23, I have been training for 18 months. I'm 5'8. I was originally 185, but I cut 30lbs in the past 3 months and got to a lean 155, I am happy with what I accomplished I can finally see all 6 abs quite clearly, but would like a boost cutting down an extra 2/3 BF. Just getting me from lean to shredded. I lost a little mass during my cut, and I think a few lbs of fat lost, plus a few pounds gained of muscle would really seal the deal. Also, I have lost considerable strength on my cut, my 1RM on deadlift used to be 375, now its 315...my 1RM on bench as gone from 200 to 185. I would love to get a nice strength boost going.

My main goal is decrease my BF to get from lean to 'shredded', I only need to lose a few more lbs, but at this BF, that can be harder to accomplish. If I could lose even 5lbs of pure fat, and gain 3lbs of keepable solid muscle, I think the results would be amazing. Any strength gains are a sought after bonus.

I want to keep permanent sides to a minimum, I want to reduce all risks associated. I'm willing to take a reduced reward for a reduced risk. I'm just really at a loss at which PH is right a first cycle and my goal. I have to be honest, PHs have piqued my interest. I want my first cycle to be safe and effective, I may never run another cycle again, but I feel like I've gotten to a point in my physique/training/bf/etc. where its never felt more appropriate and where I could see clear results. I feel like I have to give it one go.

I appreciate the concern though, really. I need to hear it from experienced people.

 

[LearnAnabolic]

He posted stats. Look at the last paragraph.

I wouldn't cycle at 155 lbs if I were you...would concentrate on natural building. It's not the answer you want, I know. If you're going to cycle, and you've completed research to attain a level of knowledge to be competent (usually takes about 3-6 months, but depends on you) then my recommendation would be halodrol. Halotestin(fluoxymesterone) is a different compound, so keep them separate. Halodrol is the main beginner product, but has a wide range of side effects.

Personally, I think you should probably do a ton more reading before you try to start matching your goals to any specific product. And in the meantime, train for mass (6-8 reps, heavy, compound) with protein high and carbs moderate. I think you have a lot of genetic potential to go, and after your first cycle it will be near impossible to gain without more gear.

You make a great point here that I was wondering earlier.

I'm still fairly young, 23. I was curious, would I be completely ****ing my ability to naturally reach my genetic potential even after a cycle? Meaning would I be depedent on PH to make solid gains if I tried to stay natural after a cycle? I don't want to be dependent on it, just want a nice boost and personally see the results a PH can make. But I don't want to make natural gains in the future HARDER for me.

Maybe I should just run Clen to get my BF where I want it to be and then bulk up? I just figured a PH would be a great 2 for 1 and lead to a stellar recomp.

Thanks for the info.

 

[LearnAnabolic]

Just wanna clear something up here. I'm not trying a PH because I need help bulking up or gaining mass. I can certainly do that, I did a great job in the past year putting on 15lbs and gaining some great strength and muscle. The next few months have some important things coming up for me, and I really just wanted a boost in getting my physique to that killer level. I feel lean, but not shredded. I feel like I'm a good size, but not huge like I used to be.

TBH, I'm looking at a PH as a shortcut to to having "Holy ****" physique this summer. It will take a few months to put even a quality 3 lbs of muscle, and thats with some fat added, which ruins my leanness/abs (I've been using LG with great success though!), and I still have a few lbs of pure fat to go.

With a PH, I'd lose those last few lbs, get shredded, and have a few lbs of muscle/strength gains. If I achieved this, I would not want to/need to run another cycle. I would just slowly bulk using the leangains method for the rest of my life. Hah, that would be fun. But I definitely do NOT want to risk gaining naturally again for it...

Though with what muscle said, maybe Beta-Hydroxyandrost-5-Ene-17-One is right for me? Just a test boost. Though is any of it keepable? Whats the point if I only get the results I want during that month. I mean the fatloss is permanent but, still. Any idea what anti-e, activators I would need to run with this to get a nice test boost? And again, is any gain keepable using this method? I've heard people using Clomid to boost test, but it goes away as soon as you stop using it, which of course makes sense. But is all the muscle gained during that period just deteriorate away because your natural test levels can't support it...

Dear god...I do ramble...aranoid: