best oral (newbie thread)

julius kelp

julius kelp

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hey guys. can't do the pin thang. looking at the orals since i'm less than ecstatic about my ph/ps experiences. don't want to just put on 20 lbs of water (like i did with 1t/4ad transderm)
the m1t did about the same, i kept some of it, but that stuff really beat me up. any constructive thoughts greatly appreciated. later
 
CDB

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hey guys. can't do the pin thang. looking at the orals since i'm less than ecstatic about my ph/ps experiences. don't want to just put on 20 lbs of water (like i did with 1t/4ad transderm)
the m1t did about the same, i kept some of it, but that stuff really beat me up. any constructive thoughts greatly appreciated. later
Look to your pct, diet and training. If you did those cycles right you should have kept a reasonable amount of muscle. As for the best oral, it depends on your goals and risk/reward tolerance.
 
julius kelp

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well, i just really wanted to know if dbol,drol,winny orals were noticably effective orally only.
 
Pirate!

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If your going to do an oral only cycle, you might as well do M1T right. With a proper diet and PCT, you should be able to keep most, if not all of your gains. Not the case with D-bol or drol. Winny won't give you the mass you seek.
 

chasec

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man, i seriously doubt you gained 20lbs of water. im guessing at least 10-12 of it was muscle, but poor pct/diet resulted in the loss of gains.

not trying to be an ass, but make sure that is all in check before you try steroids. oh, and d-bol wouldn't be worth it over M1T in an oral only cycle. now if you were to pin also the story would be different.
 
SureShot

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winny for strength/hardness, dbol for size. YES you CAN keep dbol gains with proper pct, the weight you are losing is most likely water if PCT is properly laid out
 
jarhead

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Why can't you inject? If possible, I would really reconsider it because it's easier on your body(particularly the old liver) and your pretty limited with just orals. Just make sure you learn proper injection techniques.
 
pestis

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dont want to make this thread sound like a broken record bro but you are going to need to consider two things:
1. you are going to have to get used to the idea of pinning.
2. you are going to need to re-evaluate your diet and pct protocol before moving forward with more chemicals.
If you look at AAS as just super effective nutrient partitioners it will help to put the role of diet in perspective. Without proper diet you will never see the gains you want and without proper pct you will never keep them.
best of luck,
Pestis
 
julius kelp

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thanks. diet is immaculate. pct's were typical. (nolva/clomid tapered). i just wondered what a comparison between something like m1t & dbol was. & honestly, the many pounds that pile on in a week on m1t i'm doubting are MOSTLY muscle, that's all i was saying. my body just seems to STRONGLY gravitate to more like a basketball player's type physique. i'll never be massive. the pinning is just out unfortunately, i'd love to, but it can't possibly fit into my family lifestyle safely. dabbling with "supplements" is one thing & hiding injectables in the closet is another. i'm sure some of you can relate.
 
Skye

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here is part of a FAQ I am working on

Oral only cycles

Not keeping any of your gains on an oral only cycle is popular and common belief. This is not without reason. Many people don't keep their gains, not because of the type of drugs used or differences in potency but because of the type of people that use an oral only cycle. To make a success out of an oral only cycle you a. dedicated b. to be knowledgeable, c. disciplined. Most people (not all) that are all three don't tend to do the oral only cycles. They know that there are better options available and are going to use the safer, more effective methods to meet there goals. That usually involves other delivery types, specifically injections. So the irony here is that the very people that can make the most out of an oral only cycle don't use them while oral only cycles are the first cycles that the rest of the people tend to look at. They are the ones that don't want to inject, or rub themselves with smelly gels, or jest generally not willing to do what it takes. Newbies that are dedicated generally get talked into doing better things (or just learn). It really isn't to be wondered that people look down on orally only cycle.

However oral only cycles can be ran with success. And there are times when they are desirable. Anyone that has to travel should appreciate this. The key to success with them is four fold. First you must run a real full cycle. By that I mean you have to eat right, train right, get your sleep, and avoid taking shortcuts. In other words you need to be dedicated, the steroids are meant to help you along, not to be used as a crutch. Second is you cannot skip on your ancillaries, you need them to make this work right. This means using the appropriate anti estrogens, AI and/or SERMs. Third DO NOT SKIMP ON THE PCT. I don't know why but some people seam to think that they do not get shut down. Not true, PCT is as important as if you were running test. Fourth your supplements will make a big difference as well.

The following steroids are oral compounds that are designed (or will work regardless) to have oral availability. This usually done by two means; methylate the steroid to help prevent the liver from processing it or by using an ester that the body can absorb. The drawbacks to doing this are the methylated steroids all have some degree of liver toxicity and the esters suffer from low and/or uneven absorption. Also methylated steroids should never be used together if possible due to the liver toxicity. This obviously limits what you can do with oral steroids as most of the effective one are methylated.

Oxandrolone (Anavar, Var) Very safe but weak steroid. Methylated but surprisingly easy on the liver. Still it is liver toxic and should not be ran indefinitely. 8 weeks is as long as it should be ran. The main drawback to this steroid besides its strength is the cost. Anavar cost no more then Dianabol to manufacture yet cost sometimes as much as 20 times that of Dianabol. The reason for this is the US government got involved (are we surprised?) A law was passed that allowed companies to gain the equivalent of patents on drug that otherwise might not be worth their while if it was for AIDS. This coupled with the weak nature of the drug make it less then desirable for most.

Methandrostenolone (Dianabol, Dbol, Anabol) is covered in the common drug section. Probably the single best steroid if you are running an oral cycle. It is unfortunately also high in sides. Ancillary drugs are a must here. A Dianabol only cycle requires an AI and should also include nolvadex. Can be used for ether bulking or cutting. Bang for the buck this is it.

Oxymetholone (drol, A-bomb) is not recommend for first cycles (or at all by this author). Again the amount you need to run for an effective dose usually includes too many side affects. This is covered in the common drug section.

Stanozolol (winny, Winstrol) Same arguments as in the common drug section. On top of that it is mild steroid at best.

Trenbolone Acetate (tren, fina, finaplex H) This is a cattle implant (finaplex H) that contains the steroid Trenbolone Acetate. For more information on cattle pellets and such go to http://www.chemicalfitness.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127 for details. All that is important for this topic is the nature of the drug and that in come in convent pellets that you can treat like pill. Trenbolone is a powerful steroid, on of the most powerful available. It is almost always used as an injectable despite having a 25% oral availability. Given that Trenbolone is expensive this is not hard to understand. Additionally even accounting for the absorption it STILL works better when injected. Still even so it is still 2 to 3 times as powerful as testosterone. With that being the case it is usually not a drug to be used by the novice with orally being the exception due to the limited number of steroids available for oral use. Still expensive even as an injectable you’re stuck taking 4 to 5 times as much if taken orally. For instance to dose yourself 50mg of trenbolone a day you have to 200mg worth of pellets, that is10 pellets, divided at least twice a day, being 5 pellets twice a day. 75mg is better and I would prefer 90mg a day (oral isn't as effective as inject) but that can get really expensive (That is almost one cart every 5 days so about 8 carts at 32 dollars a cart 256 dollars vs. 5 carts being 160 dollars worth of pellets) if you can swing it that would be much better. But is still a waste of money compared to injecting. Still if your going to go oral this is high on the bang for buck. For the best collection of fina article (old though) go to http://www.rippedcanadians.ca/articles/fina.html

Methenolone acetate (Primobolan, primo) Another Acetate ester oral, this one has a better absorption rate some ware between 30 and 50%. So dosages start at 100mg a day preferable 200 and up to 300. A good steroid it is mild on the sides (notable it doesn’t do much to shut you down) with moderate gains you can take high doses if you wish with little on the sides. Did I mention you have to be rich to do this? One of the most expensive steroids on the market I have seen (literally) the tablets priced for more then twice what the whole tablet would weigh in gold. Recently some to the underground labs have been making these far more reasonable then that though. Still it is extremely expensive. It stacks well with anything and has the benefit of promoting you libido, useful if your using suppressive steroids. Additionally it stacks well with anything, with or replace testosterone (Trenbolone and Methenolone make for a awesome cutting stack). If you have the money then go ahead. For myself if I win the lottery my ass is going to the Bahamas.

Testosterone Undecanoate (Andriol) In a word this stuff is worthless. Designed to be an oral available testosterone (basically the body treats it like an oil so it bypass the liver) it just doesn’t work well. In some fashion most of the testosterone is destroyed requiring a starting dose of 240mg before you see even minimal results (doctors have prescribe HRT at 240mg a day). Worse the absorption rate changes day to day depending on what you eat, the time of day due to what your metabolism is like at the time and apparently the alignment of the stars. To add injury to insult the gel caps (the actual Androil tabs) are expensive. Even the doctors don’t like this stuff for HRT. Why they still make it I do not know.

For most oral only cycles the only thing I really recommend is Methandrostenolone. High bang for the buck and good results used alone it is one of the few drugs other then test that can be ran as a single drug cycle. Most everything else needs to have something stacked with it. Here is an example of a Methandrostenolone only cycle:

Here is a sample of a Dianabol dbol only cycle:
50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
.25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.

Here it is again with a minimal dose of fina. (360mg ED would be best)
50mg Methandrostenolone ED (25mg twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
200mg Finaplex H pellets ED (5 pellets twice a day) for weeks 1 to 6
.25 to .5 mg of Anastrozole ED for weeks 1 to 6
10mg of nolvadex ED for weeks 1 to 6
Start PCT week 7 with 40mg of nolvadex ED for two weeks then 20mg ED for another two weeks.
 
julius kelp

julius kelp

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Thanks Skye for the informative article. I understand what you're saying, & if there's one thing I have is discipline. I get kind of obsessive with these things really. I like the looks of the dbol cycle. I'm still wondering how it compares to m1t. m1t seems to be pretty powerful stuff, but it also seems to put a hurt on your body in several different ways. i've got plenty of it put back from when it was expensive! Thanks again.
 
DR.D

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anadrol or dianabol for an oral only, if M1T is out of the question
 

size

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I would choose anavar.

However, I think you really need to develop a risk:reward scenario before deciding to use AAS. Reason being, you are willing to use illegal substances(high risk) but you are limiting your drug selection(low reward). Personally, I do not think the risk is worth the reward.
 
ryansm

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Couldn't you add a transdermal here?
 
julius kelp

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oh yeah, done a number of transderms. they're ok. a little bit of a pain i just wear a t- shirt to bed...i've kind of given up on the bulk/cut method. i just get bigger & FATTER then when i cut i end up too close to where i started. & the damn process takes months. i'm trying now to just maintain a small calorie surplus. don't want to offend anybody, but i gave up the 400 grams protein a day method too. i have to believe it's just overkill for a guy with 170 lbs of muscle mass, i'm doing my best with a 40/40/20 right now at about 2.7kcals divided into meals. usually back off the carbs at night. sorry, i should roll that over into the diet thread. anyhow, i appreciate everybody's input.
 

chasec

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oh yeah, done a number of transderms. they're ok. a little bit of a pain i just wear a t- shirt to bed...i've kind of given up on the bulk/cut method. i just get bigger & FATTER then when i cut i end up too close to where i started. & the damn process takes months. i'm trying now to just maintain a small calorie surplus. don't want to offend anybody, but i gave up the 400 grams protein a day method too. i have to believe it's just overkill for a guy with 170 lbs of muscle mass, i'm doing my best with a 40/40/20 right now at about 2.7kcals divided into meals. usually back off the carbs at night. sorry, i should roll that over into the diet thread. anyhow, i appreciate everybody's input.
sorry, but i fail to see how your self proclaimed "immaculate" diet yields only fat gains on a bulking cycle. you seriously need to reconsider what's going on with your eating habits if you run an androgen, eat "cleanly" according to you, and still gain only fat. something is wrong with that picture
 
julius kelp

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well it's not ONLY fat gained on those bulkings, however the majority of the muscle mass gained comes back off even with slow moderate cutting of no more than 2lbs /week. immaculate diet to me is knowing virtually every calorie of protein,carbs, & fat throughout each day. i can go back on my pc & graph the data going back a year. & i don't really care for junk food in general, i love eating lean beef, chicken/turkey breast,seafood, oatmeal (organic whole),whole grains,some fruits,salads & vegetables of most varieties. i admit, i hate beets! anyhow, in the end i'll never be "massive" it's not that i'm scrawny now, but my genetics are what they are. i'm 6'4" 190lbs @ about 12% right now, i weighed like 235 for a short time last year, but i was a fat thin guy. i don't plan on going over 15% bodyfat ever again. my ph/ps/supplement experiences (& i still have a bottle of that killer osmo androstendione somewhere if anybody wants to buy it!) just havn't seemed to take me very far beyond where i would have gone with just diet & hard work.
 
DR.D

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Dude! I still use andro pre-w/o sometimes. It just works well like that. I also love the whole grain stuff too, like rice and pasta. Are you hypoglycemic at all JK? Ever had your thyroid function tested?? Cause the diet does sound better regulated that most.
 
TheChosen1

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From my personal experience bro, I HATE NEEDLES TOO. But I did alot of reading and researching and learned how to inject painlessly. Besides, I've gained too much fluid from dbol, not to mention my bp had skyrocketed.

These guys here are telling you right. You may want to consider learning to get used to it. And when you think about it, it's alot cheaper to inject once a week than to swallow 1-3 tabs 3 times a day.
 

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Julius:

I had possibly the most terrible time of anyone when it came to bringing myself to injecting. I work in the medical field, give injections everyday to all kinds of people without hesitation. I never even thought about it because it was just part of my job. But when that needle was staring at me, everything changed. It's not the pain that I fear because needles don't hurt. It was that gut wrenching feeling of putting something into my muscles, it just got the best of me. I tried everything I could think of, psyching myself up, relaxing, hot shower, lying down, standing up, listening to music, talking to myself and trying to rationalize why I should do this and not be afraid, but nothing worked.

My gear sat in the closet for well over a year while I continued to use dermals and prohormones. Finally, I realized something. I had never had a problem at the doctors office when I got a shot, so what was different? It was the fact that someone else was doing it. I sat the wife down, explained what was going on, gave her my old textbook to study on giving injections, and the next day she gave me my first one. No problem whatsoever. This went on until I was comfortable with the feeling and started doing them myself. Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to ask their wife or girlfriend for such a favor. But if you will be honest with her and educate her from the start, you might find they are more than willing to listen and learn. Anyway, back on topic. Try getting someone you trust to do it for you the first few times and you will see that its nothing. Hope this helps.
 

jweave23

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If you cannot possibly inject get some test base, throw it in t-gel and make that the base of your stack. I like M1T and winny for orals, JMO. Dbol will of course work well also. Var is great but you need to find a cheap source, which isn't always easy :)
 
SureShot

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Dbol only has been run by quite a few people i know and they kept gains. I see the reasons being
1. They train and eat properly
2. They trained and ate properly for quite a few years before touching a steroid
3. Genetics
4. PCT
For example, one guy i know has done ridiculously low dose cycles, such as just spreading out 100 dbol tabs over a few week period, did proper pct, kept all his gains.
 

jweave23

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I agree, you can run dbol the right way and keep some gains. With that said, some dermal test is always a good idea. :)
 
SureShot

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I agree, you can run dbol the right way and keep some gains. With that said, some dermal test is always a good idea. :)
I definitely agree there, you will obviously see greater gains when an oral is stacked with test
 
julius kelp

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thanks dudes, again all quality thoughts. some have suggested 1-test trans. what do we think of that?
 
julius kelp

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ok

well then, i'll post any significant results either way.
 
julius kelp

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thanks doc, i'm doing 2 weeks 1-test/4ad transderms, then drop the 4ad & add the dbol & something for the water retention. i'm "dieting" lightly right now (2.4kcals/day), but will start raising cals maybe 100/day sometime probably next week. maybe level off @ 3.5k for the duration. wish me luck.
 

Chr0niC

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>>...............<<

Dbol only has been run by quite a few people i know and they kept gains. I see the reasons being
1. They train and eat properly
2. They trained and ate properly for quite a few years before touching a steroid
3. Genetics
4. PCT
For example, one guy i know has done ridiculously low dose cycles, such as just spreading out 100 dbol tabs over a few week period, did proper pct, kept all his gains.
k...
 

Sal Collaziano

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Anadrol is strong but I've heard too many scary liver stories.. I'd stay away from that..

It's probably hard to believe but I got great results from my experience with Andriol.. I gained and got stronger - and everyone around me noticed..

My first injections were done by my best friend's Mother! Imagine that? She was a nurse at one point in her life. I had to psyche myself out to let her do it and when she was done - I asked - "Did you do it yet?" I never felt the needle..

By the time it came to me doing it, I wasn't thrilled about it. But, I did it - and it was painless.. No problem at all. That scared me a bit - I was too immature in my early 20s and lost all my fear of doing whatever steroids I wanted. Then, I did a 10 week cycle of Sustanon and didn't gain a pound. After realizing I just injected 10 weeks worth of nothing, I decided never to try it again..
 

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What ever happened to Julius? Did you gain muscle man?
whats your stats nowdays?
 
Syr

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Three picks:

t-bol
anavar
SD

These are the orals I like and will ever use.
 

Methyl1

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Great info here guys!! What do you think of that Dbol cycle Dr. D? The 50mg ED for 6weeks, How would that compare to your earlier cycle you had laid out for me of 30,35,40,45,35,30 ? :)
 
DR.D

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Me1,
It would work @50mg/6wks, but it would be too strong initially and too weak at the end. I believe in the effeciency of pyramiding the dose.
 

Methyl1

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Me1,
It would work @50mg/6wks, but it would be too strong initially and too weak at the end. I believe in the effeciency of pyramiding the dose.
Will do Doctor, pyramid it is. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions:)
 

Dedicated

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SuperDrol and Equipoise something new i was thinking off (Good combo, Solid lean gains, SuperDrol inhibits appetie, Equipoise encourages it, Very low risk of DHT related 5-alpha side effects!!)
 

UNDERTAKER

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Will do Doctor, pyramid it is. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions:)
Methyl....just to let your know, their is soooooooo much fake dbol out there. The chances of getting real **** is slim imo unless you really know someone.
 
Beowulf

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SuperDrol and Equipoise something new i was thinking off (Good combo, Solid lean gains, SuperDrol inhibits appetie, Equipoise encourages it, Very low risk of DHT related 5-alpha side effects!!)
Syr ran SD with 1,4, which is the ph to Equipoise (isn't it?). I think the majority of his benefits came from the SD. I think you would also have to the Equipoise several weeks before the SD, or at least that is the case with SD.
 

Methyl1

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Methyl....just to let your know, their is soooooooo much fake dbol out there. The chances of getting real **** is slim imo unless you really know someone.
I ordered the Anabol 5mg x 1000 tabs , well see how it turns out. How can you tell its fake?
 
Grassroots082

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Knowing your source (trust). LOTS of fake Anabol too, aren't BD pink thai's the most copied fake out there? I think I would've went elsewhere for your Dbol needs (as far as brand).
 

Methyl1

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Well I ordered 2 bottles of the 1000 tabs, they were cheap enough, so if they are fake then oh well, not much lost:) Ive found pictures on the internet comparing the fakes to the real ones and know what to look for when I get them.
 

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