Which of these products is the most mild? Androseries, finaflex, or ams.

[Austinmck17]

I am deciding which of these to use. I was looking into 1-Andro, Epi-v, and 550-xD by finaflex. also looking into the AMS anabolic growth kit which consists of 4-ad, decavol, and 1-andro. are any of these products similar to the finaflex products? in terms of side effects which is worse? also is the andro series in the same level of shutdown ?

 

[MattPorter]

I am deciding which of these to use. I was looking into 1-Andro, Epi-v, and 550-xD by finaflex. also looking into the AMS anabolic growth kit which consists of 4-ad, decavol, and 1-andro. are any of these products similar to the finaflex products? in terms of side effects which is worse? also is the andro series in the same level of shutdown ?

You will have to dose the AMS products higher and and around the clock. Epi-v (assuming it is epistane) will be liver toxic and shut you down as ANY methylated steroid would.

Finaflex is a oral capsule with DHB to supposedly increase bioavailability, however you would still need to mega-dose this stuff for sufficient conversion to 1 androdiol(dione).

AndroSeries will be only dosed one-a-day and that will minimize most hpta suppression worries, and is dosed rather potently and also has the best delivery system (fatty ester +LV).

-Matt

 

[soontobbeast]

epi V is stanodrol and small amounts of 11oxo

 

[jbryand101b]

AndroSeries will be only dosed one-a-day and that will minimize most hpta suppression worries, and is dosed rather potently and also has the best delivery system (fatty ester +LV).

-Matt

just a heads up, it cant be potent and minimal supression to hpta function, not unless the andro series really contains sarms instead of pro hormones.

if you want minimal hpta supression, you are going to have to use minimal amounts of androgens, and will give you minimal amounts of gains.

more gains, more sides.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

just a heads up, it cant be potent and minimal supression to hpta function, not unless the andro series really contains sarms instead of pro hormones.

if you want minimal hpta supression, you are going to have to use minimal amounts of androgens, and will give you minimal amounts of gains.

more gains, more sides.

this is why I spread the A-series dosages out 3X per day, morn afternoon and night....I don't believe in all this minimize the HTPA supression stuff....supress the got-damn HTPA and then do a proper PCT its cheap enough for clomid. unless you were going to go all out and do the dose in the morning and then do some "PCT" at night and all that jazz....but again....just cycle and then do PCT, not some conglomeration of a clusterfuq combination of PCT/cycle....seems like your making life more difficult and making the potential gains more difficult to achieve (maximizing the product potential) putzing around with all this minimization stuff....

 

[hvactech]

between the three i would choose what bests fits ur budget....

 

[jbryand101b]

i can understand the logic beind dosing the esterfied dhea products once per day.

but whether your dosing it at rec dosing all at once in the am, or 3 times per day, i dont think it's going to matter, because the rec dosing is such a mild dose of the product.

now, if you are doing more than the rec dosing, well, guess what, you will have more gains, and will also have more hpta supression, and i dont think with the ester's, it's going to matter how you dose it.

now, the non esterfied dhea products, like ams 4-dhea, that will have a super short half life (4 hours or so), so dosing it all pre w/o may help save hpta supression.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

well according to their "curves" on the charts on the packaging.....it would seem that twice per day dosing would keep the levels elevated 24 hours....and 3X per day should keep it almost constant.....which I would assume keeping it at steady but not max saturation for 24 hours would be the most effective way to dose it rather than one max dose that drops to baseline within 24 hours or so......

 

[MattPorter]

just a heads up, it cant be potent and minimal supression to hpta function, not unless the andro series really contains sarms instead of pro hormones.

if you want minimal hpta supression, you are going to have to use minimal amounts of androgens, and will give you minimal amounts of gains.

more gains, more sides.

"more gains more sides" is a general statement and just not accurate in all scenarios. If you were to take 60 mgs of halotestin or methyl-testosterone (not m1t) you would probably get more sides than gains.

If the "more sides more gains" statement was true --- hell, 200 mgs of halotestin should mop the floor w/ 750 mg/ test prop a week --- but it would not even be comparable.

I am not saying the Andro products are super potent muscle gainers like tren, moderate dose test,SD etc,.... but out of the products he listed (namely AMS) they are more potent and the way they are dosed will help mitigate some hpta suppression.

-Matt

 

[soontobbeast]

"more gains more sides" is a general statement and just not accurate in all scenarios. If you were to take 60 mgs of halotestin or methyl-testosterone (not m1t) you would probably get more sides than gains.

If the "more sides more gains" statement was true --- hell, 200 mgs of halotestin should mop the floor w/ 750 mg/ test prop a week --- but it would not even be comparable.

I am not saying the Andro products are super potent muscle gainers like tren, moderate dose test,SD etc,.... but out of the products he listed (namely AMS) they are more potent and the way they are dosed will help mitigate some hpta suppression.

-Matt

if you could survive 200mg of halotestin, it would, in fact, outperform 750mg test prop.

i dont see how could disagree with that

 

[MattPorter]

if you could survive 200mg of halotestin, it would, in fact, outperform 750mg test prop.

i dont see how could disagree with that

You REALLY KNOW it would? the sides at 200 mg/day would NOT outperform the results? I am certain the sides would be extreme and the results would not equate to the nauseating side effects.

For the sides I would IMAGINE you would get from such a toxic dose --- given the logic of "more sides, more results" You should put on friggin 30-40 lbs with the disaster that is taking place internally.

Test prop at 750/week will blow people up and be pretty safe in doing so...

-matt

 

[Royd The Noyd]

"more gains more sides" is a general statement and just not accurate in all scenarios. If you were to take 60 mgs of halotestin or methyl-testosterone (not m1t) you would probably get more sides than gains.

If the "more sides more gains" statement was true --- hell, 200 mgs of halotestin should mop the floor w/ 750 mg/ test prop a week --- but it would not even be comparable.

I am not saying the Andro products are super potent muscle gainers like tren, moderate dose test,SD etc,.... but out of the products he listed (namely AMS) they are more potent and the way they are dosed will help mitigate some hpta suppression.

-Matt

You're right. For a seventh of the price you get a fourth as good of results with AMS stuff vs 200 dollar androbulk or whatever it's called.

Seems alright to me...

-Royd The Noyd

 

[soontobbeast]

You REALLY KNOW it would? the sides at 200 mg/day would NOT outperform the results? I am certain the sides would be extreme and the results would not equate to the nauseating side effects.

For the sides I would IMAGINE you would get from such a toxic dose --- given the logic of "more sides, more results" You should put on friggin 30-40 lbs with the disaster that is taking place internally.

Test prop at 750/week will blow people up and be pretty safe in doing so...

-matt

the sides would be dying of course, but should you survive, you would see more gains. that's the way it is.

what you are referring to is optimal dosing of androgens for a good benefit to side ratio.

that isn't the question.


30mg of superdrol WILL have more anabolic potency than 20mg.

however, you will see more sides.

if you're going to assume a 200mg dose of halo, you have to assume you're immortal, in which case, you would see more sides and more gains than at 50mg - it's pointless to hypothesize about doses that are lethal. i dont know why you would even bother.


the bottom line is anabolic potency - not whether something can be safely done with comparable gains.

 

[jbryand101b]

"more gains more sides" is a general statement and just not accurate in all scenarios. If you were to take 60 mgs of halotestin or methyl-testosterone (not m1t) you would probably get more sides than gains.

If the "more sides more gains" statement was true --- hell, 200 mgs of halotestin should mop the floor w/ 750 mg/ test prop a week --- but it would not even be comparable.

-Matt

without looking at any of the other comments, you really should no better matt.

more gains more sides is a true term, no matter what androgen you are using.

now, dosing, this is compound dependant, and will vary between compounds. 10mg of m1t is different than 10mg of testosterone.

comparing halotestin & m1t to testosterone is redonkulous.

again, more gains, more sides is compound specific.

so with halotestin, the more gains you want, the more side effects you will have to deal with, and this is going to be dose dependant.

testosterone, same thing, there is a dosage at which you can minimize hpta supression, prob around 100 some odd mg's. at this dosage, gains and side effects will be little to none.

as you increase the dosage to get more gains, so do you increase you potential to experience negative side effects.

if you are injecting 1,000mg of test ace e/d, solo, well, you are going to experience more gains, as well as much more side effects than you would at 300mg e/d.

5-10mg of m1t will bring nice decent gains, with less side effects than 20-30mg. but 20-30mg will bring much more in the way of side effects both positive and negative.

it does not matter what compound you refer to, hpta supression is automatic, and when the hpta senses an abundance of androgenic hormones, it will begin to do what it does.

want to fool the hpta? take less of the hormone, this will also cause less gains as well as less side effects.

if you want me to research on halotestin dosing to explain that compound i can for you.

 

[MattPorter]

I disregarded the hpta suppression viewpoint and was focusing on side effects such as BP, liver enzymes, Lipids, Mood , sex drive etc...

and insinuating that certain compounds halo,and methyl test actually have not produced much weight gain from empirical feedback compared to the likes of testosterone or other "safer" injectables in terms of side effects versus results.

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

You're right. For a seventh of the price you get a fourth as good of results with AMS stuff vs 200 dollar androbulk or whatever it's called.

Seems alright to me...

-Royd The Noyd

Very few actually pay retail. More like 40% off retail.

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

want to fool the hpta? take less of the hormone, this will also cause less gains as well as less side effects.

if you want me to research on halotestin dosing to explain that compound i can for you.

There comes a point where there are no more results from increased dosing, but purely sides as in diminishing returns.

You will hit that road block much faster with most "vida high scoring A:A ratio orals" much faster than testosterone.

Let's say you can tolerate M1T at 50 mgs a day for 3 weeks --- gain 16 lbs----- sides are there ---bump up to 65 mgs and you gain 4 lbs in 2 more weeks --- sides are extreme BP, liver enzymes, lethargy, no appetite, depression, etc etc etc... -- you bump up to 80 mgs and you gain zero weight and then go to the hospital.

20 lbs in 5-6 weeks --- but you have jaundice and now will be 40 lbs lighter when you get better....

Typically users can gain 20 lbs off 500mg/test a week in 8 weeks --- bump to 750 --- bump to 1000 etc etc ...and the diminishing returns effect will be far up the milligram ladder and also MOST LIKELY wont leave you in critical condition once you reach that "threshold"

-Matt

 

[jbryand101b]

we're gonna have to stop discussing this, i doubt either of us is going to get the other to see their viewpoint.

i'll rephrase my quote taken from big cat,

the more potent a compound is, the stronger it will bind with/interact with the androgen receptor, and this will lead to more side effects. some compounds are so potent, the structure modifications make the side effects too extreme to handle at effective dosages. side effects such as hpta supression will be dose dependent, and compound potency will be compound specific.
so with that, more gains more sides, different compounds will be dosed differently to make this phrase true.

the higher you dose halotestin, the more pronounced the androgenic effects will be, and the more negative side effects you will incur. with all compounds, there is a point where you are just wasting steroid, and increasing side effects.

each androgen has it's own properties. all compounds the higher you dose them, the more likely it is you will experience negative side effects.

 

[jbryand101b]

Typically users can gain 20 lbs off 500mg/test a week in 8 weeks --- bump to 750 --- bump to 1000 etc etc ...and the diminishing returns effect will be far up the milligram ladder and also MOST LIKELY wont leave you in critical condition once you reach that "threshold"

-Matt

testosterone is a completely different compound than m1t, and just like with everything else, the higher you dose testosterone, the more likely it is you will experience side effects. esp hpta disruption and estrogenic side effects.

 

[MattPorter]

testosterone is a completely different compound than m1t, and just like with everything else, the higher you dose testosterone, the more likely it is you will experience side effects. esp hpta disruption and estrogenic side effects.

I realize they vastly different, I was just comparing different steroids for the side --vs--results ratio.....and just implying that although testosterone doesn't score as high in it's A:A ratio, it has the propensity to deliver gains that will ***** or exceed your MORE androgenic, high AR binding steroids before it's side effects threshold will come into the point of diminishing returns.

I have so much experience with seeing people first hand mega dose androgens that it is hard for me to see your side of things as paper and empirical evidence won't always match up.

-Matt

 

[MattPorter]

hehe BIG CAT , wasn't he that little red head guy that was supposedly a steroid guru on BB.com I remember those profiles.

-Matt

 

[jbryand101b]

big cat aka peter van mol

he's a trainer, some of the athletes he's trained include

Philiep Van Nuffel, 3 time Belgian and European champion bodybuilding

Estelle Moreau, world champion figure fitness in the medium height class

 

[MattPorter]

Looks like a happy tall kid. What ever happened to Big Cat?

-Matt

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Jay Cutler ate him.

 

[jbree]

Very few actually pay retail. More like 40% off retail.

-Matt

Where?!

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Where?!

LMFAO!! yeah those 40% off sales are getting fewer and farther between huh? well 25% ain't bad, but its better to peruse the "classifieds" and find some v3 stuff 2nd hand from someone looking for quick cash. THEN you can get 40-50% lol

 

[jbryand101b]

Looks like a happy tall kid. What ever happened to Big Cat?

-Matt

he just stopped posting.