Desperate for Help.. Need advice on First cycle

TEP25

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First off,
I want to apologize.. I know there are a billion threads here with newb's trying to figure out their first cycles.
It's annoying, but I'd like to get some feedback from the experienced guys on here.

Just a brief back story,
I've always had problems putting muscle on, and a much easier time gaining fat.
I recently got some bloodwork done, and my general doctor told me I have normal testosterone levels.
But is 380ng/dl of total test, for a 26 year old athletic male normal???.. Isn't the normal range 300-800ng/dl??
I guess it's all individually specific, but I've always felt my hormones were out of wack.

As far as lifting is concerned, in the last 2 years, i've only progressed in my lifts very slightly.
It's very frustrating, and if I choose to take a few weeks off, I always feel like I start over when I get back in the gym.

Nutrition is not an issue, but when I carb cycle, I lose so much muscle mass, and barely effect my fat.

I've pretty much given up, until I heard about TRT, and the benefits of the therapy.
I've found a cycle that is intriguing, and I wanted to know what you guys thought about it.
It's a Helladrol cycle, with Forged liver support/pct, and forma stanzol.
being a methyl-androst, I will be using a liver cleanse and re-generator, as well as Indole-3-carbinol to modulate estrogen post cycle.

Anyways, thanks a lot for listening to my concerns guys.
Any feedback would be beneficial, thanks again.
 

jt339

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First off,
I want to apologize.. I know there are a billion threads here with newb's trying to figure out their first cycles.
It's annoying, but I'd like to get some feedback from the experienced guys on here.

Just a brief back story,
I've always had problems putting muscle on, and a much easier time gaining fat.
I recently got some bloodwork done, and my general doctor told me I have normal testosterone levels.
But is 380ng/dl of total test, for a 26 year old athletic male normal???.. Isn't the normal range 300-800ng/dl??
I guess it's all individually specific, but I've always felt my hormones were out of wack.

As far as lifting is concerned, in the last 2 years, i've only progressed in my lifts very slightly.
It's very frustrating, and if I choose to take a few weeks off, I always feel like I start over when I get back in the gym.

Nutrition is not an issue, but when I carb cycle, I lose so much muscle mass, and barely effect my fat.

I've pretty much given up, until I heard about TRT, and the benefits of the therapy.
I've found a cycle that is intriguing, and I wanted to know what you guys thought about it.
It's a Helladrol cycle, with Forged liver support/pct, and forma stanzol.
being a methyl-androst, I will be using a liver cleanse and re-generator, as well as Indole-3-carbinol to modulate estrogen post cycle.

Anyways, thanks a lot for listening to my concerns guys.
Any feedback would be beneficial, thanks again.
When you have low test levels like yourself (average is 280-810 I believe), doing a cycle is a gamble. You may end up with higher test after pct or you may end up with less (more likely). If you do decide to do this, you have to realize trt may be your only option even after one cycle. I don't mean to scare you, just wanted to let you know.

As for the PH, I don't know **** about PHs so I can't help you there.
 
Gerbil

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You could try running DAA. One of the few natty products actually proven to work.
 

TEP25

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Thanks for the responses guys.
Gerbil, yes, i've cycled DAA before, and did not see much improvement in strength, but did experience more wet mass gains.

jt339, I don't think i'm quite sure what you mean by ending up with less T after a cycle.. Are you speaking of the body's tendency for a negative feedback loop??.. Like shutting down the natural production??

I was intrigued by helladrol, because it does not aromatize.
So even though my total test levels may not go through the roof, free test should go up without the risk of conversion.

I also had another question, i've read that 11-oxo is a great substance for drastically cutting fat.
Anybody know a good source for getting it??
Anyways, thanks for the responses guys, hope to hear more
 
Gerbil

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11-oxo is a good cutter but a bit pricey if you run it orally due to low bio-availability, it is better as a transdermal which you would have to make, primordial performance has a transdermal kit and just google 11-oxo powder or 11-lean powder.
 
bad rad

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If you're that low I'd start looking at why first. Your levels are about half what they should be. Talk to your doctor about the Clomid test and I would really examine your diet, sleep/rest and training/overtraining possiblities. Low fat intake and lack of sleep will decimate men's test levels rather quickly. Also methylated orals are probably the last place I'd look right now.
 

TEP25

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thanks again gerbil, i'll be doing some google searches.

bad rad, my diet is not 100% on point, but I would say its quite balanced.
Sleep is ok, and overtraining is not an issue.. I don't think.

The only reason i'm considering external anabolics is that my situation has been like this for as long as I can remember.
Inability to hold on to muscle, and an easy time gaining fat.
Strength has inched forward, but at a much slower pace.. considering how much I push myself in the gym.

Anyways, would low dosing of helladrol or katanadrol bring my levels up to a respectable number??.. I knew 380 was not even close to being normal, I would think something around 600-700ng/dl would be proper for my age.
 
bad rad

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IMHO hold off until you find out why your low. At your age I consider that test level unhealthy, why try to add performance on top of an unstable foundation? It's like putting nitrous on a engine with bad rings, it runs good for a minute but when it goes wrong -it really goes wrong.

How's the rest of your blood work? Was your cholesterol or estrogen elavated too? Low test tends to go hand in hand with those.
 

TEP25

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Good advice bad rad, I think I was looking for a short term solution..
Good analogy, I know exactly what you mean (I had to rebuild my subaru motor because of bad ringlands, hahah)
I think a long term plan will do wonders.. Good diet, sleep, and training.. with natural testosterone enhancers, with cortisol and estrogen blockers.

So maybe some in-depth bloodwork should be done first.. Should I visit my local endocrinologist for the correct tests??
Anyways, I think this thread is over.. I'll be finding my solutions in the natty section.
Thanks for the insight everyone.
 
Airborne42

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If you're that low I'd start looking at why first. Your levels are about half what they should be. Talk to your doctor about the Clomid test and I would really examine your diet, sleep/rest and training/overtraining possiblities. Low fat intake and lack of sleep will decimate men's test levels rather quickly. Also methylated orals are probably the last place I'd look right now.
I agree
 

jt339

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When you cycle you can only hope your test levels come back to what they were. For most people, it may lower slightly to a lot. I agree with the clomid test, that may get your levels up. If it does, then you're in good shape.
 
bean5er

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Not to hijack this thread but my question is similar maybe you guys can shed some light for me I've been researching AAS and still am but back in october my test reading off the top of my head was like 359 or there abouts. I was in the middle of getting back into shape which I have done ( I'm around 180lbs 9-11% bf). My question is I've done the androstat test on primordials website and I can't get anything under 500ng/dl. How accurate do you guys think this is? I've been contemplating my first cycle of just test E but when I saw this thread it made me reconsider. I'm 30 years old btw and don't have any of the OP symptoms just a fairly recent blood test that showed my low t levels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
 

jt339

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Not to hijack this thread but my question is similar maybe you guys can shed some light for me I've been researching AAS and still am but back in october my test reading off the top of my head was like 359 or there abouts. I was in the middle of getting back into shape which I have done ( I'm around 180lbs 9-11% bf). My question is I've done the androstat test on primordials website and I can't get anything under 500ng/dl. How accurate do you guys think this is? I've been contemplating my first cycle of just test E but when I saw this thread it made me reconsider. I'm 30 years old btw and don't have any of the OP symptoms just a fairly recent blood test that showed my low t levels. Any advice would be greatly appreciated
Run some clomid 50mg a day for a month and test again. Levels that low shouldn't be gambled with.
 
bean5er

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Run some clomid 50mg a day for a month and test again. Levels that low shouldn't be gambled with.
Agreed thanks! Since every doc I see tells me 400 +- is fine for my age what should my levels be at ?
 

TEP25

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No problemo guys.
I've heard a lot of great feedback so far.
So the Clomid test is a portion of a blood profile???
 

jt339

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What do u mean by won't likely get that high?
If your levels are naturally in the 380s you'd be one of the lucky ones if clomid got you over 500. Don't count on it though.

No problemo guys.
I've heard a lot of great feedback so far.
So the Clomid test is a portion of a blood profile???
No, you need to get your own clomid and then get a blood test to see if they have come up. Either that or your doc will do this for you if your test levels are low enough. Seeing how you guys are in the normal range, a physician probably won't do this.
 

TEP25

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Ahhh.. You're saying take some clomid (the SERM right??) and then test my levels??
I'm assuming the clomid will stimulate my body to produce more test by bringing estradiol down??
 

jt339

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Ahhh.. You're saying take some clomid (the SERM right??) and then test my levels??
I'm assuming the clomid will stimulate my body to produce more test by bringing estradiol down??
I believe it has more to do with stimulating GnRH production.
 

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