Deca/Test log: version Smash Time

smash1904

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So I'm going to see the doctor within the next week or two to get my hormones, cholesterol and heart checked. If everything looks ok I should be starting around 3/11-3/18. I will post pre cycle bloodwork for everyone to see, I might get some objections that are worth hearing.

So after some deliberation I decided I do want to run it at higher dose, for a longer duration than I was previously talking about:

1-3 test p 440/440/220
1-14/16 test e 312.5 or 420
1-13/15 deca 275 or 370
Haven't quite figured out the dose and duration, suggestions?
hcg on cycle 250mcg M/F
Exemestane on hand
Pct
Torem 120/120/60/60/60/60
Exemestane 25mg M/F?
DAA
Ostarine 20mg/day
I will also be throwing in IGF periodically on cycle, and during pct.

Fish oil, multi, caber, liv 52, Hawthorne berry, accutane, ghrp

This is my first time running deca, 2nd aas cycle, but I've run many ph cycles. I'm looking for as much strength and size as possible.

I'm 5'9 182 10% bf 6 years training. I do a modified 5x5 program x3/week and box x2-3/week.

Just wanted to get the thread started, and discuss it a bit. I forget anything?
 
ManBeast

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I'd do the test 420 for 16, deca 300 for 14.
HCG is in iu not mcg (just making sure)
torem doeses are too high IMHO
you could do 120 for a day or two to saturate, then the rest of that week at 90, then 90/60/60/30/30.
make sure you have some caber or parami on hand in case of major deca sides (I wouldn't expect them at that dose though).
 
smash1904

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I'm mixing 1cc deca 250, 1cc deca 300, and 2.5cc test e 250 for 3 1.5cc doses - I have 2 different companies and I'm trying to make sure I'm getting the dosage all the way through. Modifying this is difficult.

If I add .5cc test e, and .5cc sterile oil, that would make it so 1.5cc has 204mg test e and 150mg deca. Or 408mg test e and 300mg deca/week.

16 & 14 sounds great to me, a nice solid number with plenty of time for the deca to clear before starting pct.

The torem is dosed based on 60mg capsules, so 30/90mg isn't really an option. Do you advise 120 just for the first couple days, and then 60 for the remainder?

As for caber, I have it on hand, I'm taking .5 M/F from the start, I'm not giving the sides a chance to occur.
 
ManBeast

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torem has a long half-life so we could do something like (dosage per day now)
week 1: 120/120/60/120/60/120/60
week 2: 120/60/120/60/120/60/120
week 3: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60
week 4: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60
Week 5: 60/0/60/0/60/0/60
Week 6: 60/0/60/0/60/0/60
 
smash1904

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How important is getting bloodwork before starting? I found out its going to be pretty pricey without health insurance, and I can't really afford more than just a basic physical and cholesterol check - hormones is a couple hundred dollars? Is that normal?
 
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smash1904

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Thank you, got checked today, will post when I get results. I can tell you my bp is a little on the upper limits of the normal range, but my hr is under 60. I was getting a little chest pain for a bit, but I think it was just temporary hbp, cause the doctor said he couldnt see anything wrong. Who knows. Maybe I was just being a hypercondriac bc I had learned about angina at school. Maybe its the caffeine.
 
smash1904

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torem has a long half-life so we could do something like (dosage per day now)
week 1: 120/120/60/120/60/120/60
week 2: 120/60/120/60/120/60/120
week 3: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60
week 4: 60/60/60/60/60/60/60
Week 5: 60/0/60/0/60/0/60
Week 6: 60/0/60/0/60/0/60
Alright this looks good to me. I hear torem is amazing, brings you back right away like you were never on.
 
ReyMan

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So I'm going to see the doctor within the next week or two to get my hormones, cholesterol and heart checked. If everything looks ok I should be starting around 3/11-3/18. I will post pre cycle bloodwork for everyone to see, I might get some objections that are worth hearing.

So after some deliberation I decided I do want to run it at higher dose, for a longer duration than I was previously talking about:

1-3 test p 440/440/220
1-14/16 test e 312.5 or 420
1-13/15 deca 275 or 370
Haven't quite figured out the dose and duration, suggestions?
hcg on cycle 250mcg M/F
Exemestane on hand
Pct
Torem 120/120/60/60/60/60
Exemestane 25mg M/F?
DAA
Ostarine 20mg/day
I will also be throwing in IGF periodically on cycle, and during pct.

Fish oil, multi, caber, liv 52, Hawthorne berry, accutane, ghrp

This is my first time running deca, 2nd aas cycle, but I've run many ph cycles. I'm looking for as much strength and size as possible.

I'm 5'9 182 10% bf 6 years training. I do a modified 5x5 program x3/week and box x2-3/week.

Just wanted to get the thread started, and discuss it a bit. I forget anything?
I'm so jelly of this cycle brah. I wish I had the extra money for something like this
 
smash1904

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So these are the numbers I got back:
Test 423
Estradiol 27.4
LH 5.2
Fsh 2.9
HDL 52
LDL 113

I was also told my liver values were elevated, but I'm assuming that's the accutane. Unless there's any objections I would like to start tomorrow.
 
smash1904

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Day 1:

Weight: 182

Overhead press 105 5x5
Front squat 145 5x5
Front squat shrug 145 4x10

I won't be listing isolation unless I feel it needs mentioning...

My acne wasn't quite under control, might need to up the dose on accutane if it starts getting pretty bad again. 40mg/day.
 
ReyMan

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Day 1:

Weight: 182

Overhead press 105 5x5
Front squat 145 5x5
Front squat shrug 145 4x10

I won't be listing isolation unless I feel it needs mentioning...

My acne wasn't quite under control, might need to up the dose on accutane if it starts getting pretty bad again. 40mg/day.
How long have you been on accutane for? I took it for 6 months, my junior year of highschool. That stuff made me so depressed!
 
smash1904

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How long have you been on accutane for? I took it for 6 months, my junior year of highschool. That stuff made me so depressed!
About 3 weeks so far. Some days my skin looks a lot better, than it breaks out again. It's weird. And its mostly just on my right shoulder. Seems like regular tanning and 20mg a day is working, but I might need to up the dose.
 
smash1904

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Day 2:

Weight: 184

My back is super sore, but shoulders and legs? Nope.

Gotta say this dose does not feel good - 200mg test e 125mg test p 150mg deca is 2cc plus I diluted it with half a cc of oil, and its almost as bad as test 400. Is that just cause its such a large shot?

Will there be complications if I just switch quads every time, rather than hit other muscles? I mean what is too frequent to hit a muscle?
 
smash1904

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Day 5:

Weight: 185

Friday didn't go as planned. My gym closes at 8 and I forgot and got there at 755. So I went to the poolside gym, which is lacking, but basically did my workout high rep low weight. Was pretty sore the next day.

I'm feeling energized and strong, I love the way test makes me feel. Was thinking about trying 250mg test p eod in the near future. I'm really excited about this deca.
 
smash1904

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Tell me if these goals seem unreasonable for this cycle:

Bench starting 210 5x5 ending 315 5x5
Wide grip pull up starting 35 5x5 ending 90 4x10
Deadlift starting 225x5 ending 365x5
Overhead press starting 105 5x5 ending 225 5x5
Front squat starting 145 5x5 ending 225 5x5
This is a 16 week cycle test 400 deca 300/week, and that's where I could be, respectively, with progressive load if I had little sticking at any weight. 16 weeks of no sticking would provide a 160 lb increase on bench and deadlift, and the number I'm talking are under that.
 
ManBeast

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I'd be concerned at the loads your joints and tendons will see at that progression. I'd move things to a higher volume and go for more of a mass gain cycle while on, especially deca and test.
 
Rodja

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Those are not realistic expectations. If you got half of that, it would be a pretty successful cycle.
 
smash1904

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How frequently should I go up in weight? 5 lbs every other time instead of every time like my current protocol demands? I'm happy I brought this up, realizing I could injure myself if I kept my protocol the same. My friend brought up tendon and ligament issues as well, said try to do 225 1x25 on bench and move up from there, for instance. I have no problem switching to a 4x10 approach, but is 20 lbs a month on bench and deadlift, 10 lbs on front squat and overhead press too much?
 
smash1904

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Day 6:

Weight: 184

Bench: 210 5x5
Deadlift: 215x5 225x5 235x5
WGPU: bw + 35 5x5

Best work out I've had in awhile, I felt strong and energized all the way through. I'm on break from boxing 3/15-4/15 so I did some cardio on a bike: 15 mins keeping my hr between 140 and 150.
 
Rodja

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How frequently should I go up in weight? 5 lbs every other time instead of every time like my current protocol demands? I'm happy I brought this up, realizing I could injure myself if I kept my protocol the same. My friend brought up tendon and ligament issues as well, said try to do 225 1x25 on bench and move up from there, for instance. I have no problem switching to a 4x10 approach, but is 20 lbs a month on bench and deadlift, 10 lbs on front squat and overhead press too much?
It's not just the joint and connective tissues; it's also the CNS. Even on AAS, you cannot expect to have linear strength gains and will still need a deload every 4-6 weeks.
 
smash1904

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It's not just the joint and connective tissues; it's also the CNS. Even on AAS, you cannot expect to have linear strength gains and will still need a deload every 4-6 weeks.
Oh ya I didn't even think of that, I was just imagining ongoing strength gains the whole cycle. When your only talking a 5 lb weight increase every workout, and being on aas, I forgot normal physiology, and was only thinking about issues with connective tissue. Last cycle I had to drop weight a few times, I don't know why I didnt think this would happen again, or why that applies. I was just thinking: 10 lb increase on bench a week, 16 weeks, 160 lb increase. Kind of dumb. Ive just been wanting to hit 300 on bench for years, but Ive learnt patience plays a huge part in this, along with dedication and consistency.

Should I drop a 5x5 routine on cycle? I mean you do a 10% deload when you stick on an exercise three times anyways, so is that enough deloading through the routine? I might be overthinking it, but is this kind of routine likely to hurt me on cycle, or hinder results? I really like 5x5, but this isnt the first time Ive heard about switching to higher volume, and focusing on mass. I'm just not sure how to approach this cause its pretty different from what Ive already been doing. Honestly I was thinking of switching from 5x5 to madcow:

http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/

I mean thats what Id be comfortable with doing, and itd be an easy transition, so I was thinking of switching over in a 4-8 weeks.
 
smash1904

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Tell me if these goals seem unreasonable for this cycle:

Bench starting 210 5x5 ending 315 5x5
Wide grip pull up starting 35 5x5 ending 90 4x10
Deadlift starting 225x5 ending 365x5
Overhead press starting 105 5x5 ending 225 5x5
Front squat starting 145 5x5 ending 225 5x5
This is a 16 week cycle test 400 deca 300/week, and that's where I could be, respectively, with progressive load if I had little sticking at any weight. 16 weeks of no sticking would provide a 160 lb increase on bench and deadlift, and the number I'm talking are under that.
Just rationalizing my previous statement

Average increases:
bench is 6.5 lb/week
wide grip pull up 3.5 lb/week
deadlift 8.75 lb/week
overhead press 7.5 lb/week
front squat 5 lb/week

Would dropping it to just a 5 lb increase average per week suffice, or just going through the routine with periodic deloading be better? I could even limit it to 5 lb increase per week, and incorporate deloading.
 
Rodja

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A deload is when you cut the intensity to ~40-50% for 1-2 weeks. A 10% deduction will not exactly be a deload.

Quick example (I started my deload this week):

PR on squat 425x2

Deload
Squats
225x3x5

GHR
BWx15x3

Standing Cable Crunches
100x15x3

Hypers
BW+45x15x3

I still do my assistance lifts, but cut back on the load on them as well. My usual sets of GHR are BW+45x15x5, but what I did was add more TUT and reduce the weight. Adds in a little more hypertrophy without adding CNS strain.
 
smash1904

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A deload is when you cut the intensity to ~40-50% for 1-2 weeks. A 10% deduction will not exactly be a deload.

Quick example (I started my deload this week):

PR on squat 425x2

Deload
Squats
225x3x5

GHR
BWx15x3

Standing Cable Crunches
100x15x3

Hypers
BW+45x15x3

I still do my assistance lifts, but cut back on the load on them as well. My usual sets of GHR are BW+45x15x5, but what I did was add more TUT and reduce the weight. Adds in a little more hypertrophy without adding CNS strain.
First question: after going back 40-50% for two weeks what weight do you go back to? and its what 6 weeks heavy, 2 weeks deload? This sounds like hst strategic deconditioning...
2nd question: you use the acronym GHR and TUT - what do they stand for? Not familiar.
Finally: can I keep to the same routine, and just incorporate deloading?

Thanks for the help.
 
ManBeast

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while i like the idea of forcing yourself to add more weight at regular intervals, I am also not a fan, because the biggest thing in this game is listening to your body, I have moved away from "x reps for y sets" to "x-y reps for z sets" in my older age, it makes more sense, and somewhat naturally allows for progressively loading yourself higher.
 
Rodja

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First question: after going back 40-50% for two weeks what weight do you go back to? and its what 6 weeks heavy, 2 weeks deload? This sounds like hst strategic deconditioning...
2nd question: you use the acronym GHR and TUT - what do they stand for? Not familiar.
Finally: can I keep to the same routine, and just incorporate deloading?

Thanks for the help.
GHR: glute-ham raises
TUT: time under tension

With anabolics, a 1 week deload will suffice. If you're going for maximal strength, then you go as heavy as possible. 5x5 is a great program, but strength is not linear and it is not something designed for maximal strength development.
 
smash1904

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Can you give a sample work out plan of what your talking about? Almost sounds like drop sets? And the only reason I'm still messing with a 5x5 program is because I'm still not lifting much in these key exercises, and I'm trying to get my strength up to par. 5x5 is a good program for getting your strength up quickly, and the weight your putting up goes up and down progressively for what is ultimately a good net gain. I would like to stick with it for at least part of this cycle and get my numbers up higher, but I can see what you're saying about perhaps being better ways, and doing it more naturally.
 
Rodja

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Can you give a sample work out plan of what your talking about? Almost sounds like drop sets? And the only reason I'm still messing with a 5x5 program is because I'm still not lifting much in these key exercises, and I'm trying to get my strength up to par. 5x5 is a good program for getting your strength up quickly, and the weight your putting up goes up and down progressively for what is ultimately a good net gain. I would like to stick with it for at least part of this cycle and get my numbers up higher, but I can see what you're saying about perhaps being better ways, and doing it more naturally.
I did give you a sample. Drop sets are seldom used and are only on assistance lifts.
 
smash1904

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So a 1 week deload how often? Every 6 weeks? If I basically have two workout groups that I switch between, could I maybe make every third time I hit a group a deload workout and switch to low weight high repetition? Would that be significant enough, or does it really need to be a full body deload for 7-14 days? And then what weight do you start at after deload?
 
smash1904

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I did give you a sample. Drop sets are seldom used and are only on assistance lifts.
Im talking about manbeast saying moving from xy to xyz. I think I understand what youre talking about with deload workouts, Ive already sort of started looking at my routine and tweeking it a bit.
 
ManBeast

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You basically focus on your primary lifts only, and do them at a reduced total weight/volume, enough to stimulate the muscle, but not tax it into heavy fatigue/failure.
 
ManBeast

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ohhhhhhhhhh gotcha...

well for example, some programs call for set 1 to be 10 reps, set two to be 8 reps, and set 3 to be 6 reps. For this you really need to keep track of weights and progression amounts, and if you don't get the weight "right on" you kinda feel like you messed up a set (at least I did).

what I do is pick a rep range for my goals (3-5 for strength, 6-8 for "balance", 9-12 for hypertrophy, and 12-15 for conditioning) and do working sets in that weight range. If on my first working set I hit my high number easy, I know I need to up the weight (and we all know how upping x lbs affects us), if I barely hit my bottom number, I should probably unload the bar a bit. Usually on the last set I'll push the weight up just a bit, and if I don't make my low number (but only miss by like 1) I'm pretty happy.
 
Rodja

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So a 1 week deload how often? Every 6 weeks? If I basically have two workout groups that I switch between, could I maybe make every third time I hit a group a deload workout and switch to low weight high repetition? Would that be significant enough, or does it really need to be a full body deload for 7-14 days? And then what weight do you start at after deload?
Your body will let you know when you need to deload, but it's generally every 4-6 weeks that it's needed. You can get away with 6 weeks of maxing out on anabolics, but you won't be able to do that while off cycle. Another way to look at a deload is to do what I call a "technique week." People lose their technique every now and then and taking a week to train that specifically is always a good idea. These are sets of maybe 5 reps, but done with as much bar speed as possible.

After I'm done with a deload, I go immediately back into setting PRs on my lifts.
 
fueledpassion

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How important is getting bloodwork before starting? I found out its going to be pretty pricey without health insurance, and I can't really afford more than just a basic physical and cholesterol check - hormones is a couple hundred dollars? Is that normal?

thru privatemdlabs.com it is only around $50 for cholesterol check. For female hormone panel which includes total T, estradiol, LH, FSH and CBC for liver and kidney values it runs about $52 after a 15% discount...
 
fueledpassion

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So are you trying to build mass or build strength? If you are going for strength then you better ask ole Rodja how it goes. But building muscle has a different approach. You don't max out every week in that case. You do move up in weight as you go, but keeping the weight at 65-75% of your 1RM and taking at least 2 out of 4 sets to failure would be ideal for muscle growth. Typically, for upper body I stay between 8-12 reps to failure and lower body anywhere from 7-15 reps, again, to failure. The only reason I ask is because I thought your first post said you want to get big. Big and strong aren't necessarily the same thing.

For instance, when I started my cycle 12 weeks ago I could deep squat 225 X 8 times fresh and could usually do two sets like that before I was nearly spent and had to move to another exercise. Now, I can pyramid up to 315 doing normal squats and then turn around and deep squat 225 X 15 times after doing the pyramid. I've seen about a 60lb increase in squat strength overall as well. For bench, I've had about 40lbs increase or so just to give you an idea.
 
GreenEarth

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I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.
 
smash1904

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Day 8(yesterday):

Weight: 185.5

Overhead press 110 5x5
Front squat 150 5x5
Front squat shrug 150 4x10
and I finally moved up to 20 lb on my side delt raise 2x10. Never been able to move up on that before, it was weird, but last time I did 15 4x15 and tried it out 20.
 
smash1904

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ohhhhhhhhhh gotcha...

well for example, some programs call for set 1 to be 10 reps, set two to be 8 reps, and set 3 to be 6 reps. For this you really need to keep track of weights and progression amounts, and if you don't get the weight "right on" you kinda feel like you messed up a set (at least I did).

what I do is pick a rep range for my goals (3-5 for strength, 6-8 for "balance", 9-12 for hypertrophy, and 12-15 for conditioning) and do working sets in that weight range. If on my first working set I hit my high number easy, I know I need to up the weight (and we all know how upping x lbs affects us), if I barely hit my bottom number, I should probably unload the bar a bit. Usually on the last set I'll push the weight up just a bit, and if I don't make my low number (but only miss by like 1) I'm pretty happy.
So it is a pyramid? I mean youre not really sure how high youre going to go, its kind of just based how many reps I can do? 190x15 195x13 200x10 205x7 210x6 215x5 220x2 for instance?
 
smash1904

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Your body will let you know when you need to deload, but it's generally every 4-6 weeks that it's needed. You can get away with 6 weeks of maxing out on anabolics, but you won't be able to do that while off cycle. Another way to look at a deload is to do what I call a "technique week." People lose their technique every now and then and taking a week to train that specifically is always a good idea. These are sets of maybe 5 reps, but done with as much bar speed as possible.

After I'm done with a deload, I go immediately back into setting PRs on my lifts.
Ok you have me sold, I'll make sure I incorporate that. It makes sense.
 
ManBeast

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No, its only kinda shakey the first week back into the program when I feel it out, after that I have a good idea where to start and I usually hit the middle and low end of my rep goals perfectly from there out.
 
smash1904

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So are you trying to build mass or build strength? If you are going for strength then you better ask ole Rodja how it goes. But building muscle has a different approach. You don't max out every week in that case. You do move up in weight as you go, but keeping the weight at 65-75% of your 1RM and taking at least 2 out of 4 sets to failure would be ideal for muscle growth. Typically, for upper body I stay between 8-12 reps to failure and lower body anywhere from 7-15 reps, again, to failure. The only reason I ask is because I thought your first post said you want to get big. Big and strong aren't necessarily the same thing.

For instance, when I started my cycle 12 weeks ago I could deep squat 225 X 8 times fresh and could usually do two sets like that before I was nearly spent and had to move to another exercise. Now, I can pyramid up to 315 doing normal squats and then turn around and deep squat 225 X 15 times after doing the pyramid. I've seen about a 60lb increase in squat strength overall as well. For bench, I've had about 40lbs increase or so just to give you an idea.

My main focus is strength, but I'm keeping my calories high for size. Is bulking during strength training a contradiction? Cause I thought the best strength gains came with wet compounds, that's why anadrol is so good for strength athletes and power lifters, and that would mean a lot of size too? If I'm wrong and these aren't the same things then I'm misinformed.

As Ive mentioned, I may want to move over to a 4x10 program at some point - might give me better results on cycle.
 
smash1904

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I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.
From what I understand accutane works by telling your subcutaneous glands to stop producing so much sebum, and to shrink. Yes on cycle you have androgens telling those glands to produce more, so it might be an uphill battle, but its still supposed to be effective cause your skin will produce less oil than without, and the glands will still shrink. I do not believe it balances your hormones, but balances your skin if you happen to have a problematic hormonal imbalance. Ive heard a lot of pros and cons to accutane, both on or off cycle, and I felt it was worth the risk - especially at a lower dosage. I take 20-40mg/day, tan for 15 minutes 3x/week, shower twice a day if possible, and use medicated soap and acne cream - been working pretty good so far... And to be perfectly honest, my case is not so bad that I would be able to get a prescription, and so I'm using research chemical grade. When I had brought up steroid use with my doctor in the past his advice was "do not take them," so I can only imagine what he'd say right now. hahaha
 
smash1904

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So right now I'm taking test p 125mg eod, and deca 300mg test e 410mg per week split M/W/F(its a painful shot, feels better split up, and i figured this would give more stable test levels). First thing is I'm taking 2cc of deca and 3 cc of test and putting it together in a vile, and then pulling off that for dosing - is this ok? Next I'm thinking of raising the test e to 470mg/week deca 310, does anyone think I shouldn't? And finally I am reading Swale's HCG Protocol, and Im wondering if I'm dosing correctly - 250mcg M/F... It says like day of once a week shot and two days before that, but I have a different aas protocol.

Thanks.
 
fueledpassion

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My main focus is strength, but I'm keeping my calories high for size. Is bulking during strength training a contradiction? Cause I thought the best strength gains came with wet compounds, that's why anadrol is so good for strength athletes and power lifters, and that would mean a lot of size too? If I'm wrong and these aren't the same things then I'm misinformed.

As Ive mentioned, I may want to move over to a 4x10 program at some point - might give me better results on cycle.
Well most wet compounds are ideal for strength gains but even more so for muscle gains. I was just asking really. True strength training will not necessarily be very effective at mass gaining, although some gains should be realized regardless.

When talking anabolics, I always aim for mass gains personally. My theory is that steroid strength will always escape you unless muscle mass has been added as well. Keeping muscle gains on the other hand really has more to do with your PCT protocol as well as bridging supplements. I'm not arguing with Rodja or anyone who is into the strength/power lifting stuff but I just try to realize as much gains as possible from these cycles. I couldn't justify steroid cycles if everything I benefited from the cycle was lost 4 weeks after stopping.
 
jaderjader321

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Post up some results man! Pics or weight or measurements! :)
 
smash1904

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Day 10:

Weight: 186 (+4)

Bench 205 5x5
Deadlift 135x10 225x5 245x5
Wide grip pullup 20 3x10 bwx10

Great work out today. My muscles are starting to look really full again, and I'm getting super vascular... Hunger is through the roof, test makes me hungrier than ghrp I think.
 
ReyMan

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I'm not insanely educated on this subject (as you will quickly realize lol), but doesn't running an anabolic cycle while on isotretinoin seem like a bad idea? When I was on it a few years ago they made me get bloodwork on a monthly basis to ensure that it wasn't messing with me too badly, and along with that my dermatologist forbade me from taking any supplements or vitamins. Unless I'm completely mistaken, isotretinoin mainly works on a hormonal level to try and alleviate acne caused by hormone imbalance. Wouldn't it follow, if you were taking something to try and balance your hormones, that injecting test, shutting down your system, and attempting to create what would be considered a pretty sizable imbalance (in the favor of testosterone) would be a bad idea? It seems like the drugs would not exactly agree with one another.

Again, not terribly educated on this...when I was on accutane, I was given a "crash course" explanation of how it was meant to work by my derm, and who even knows how correct that was.
It's not hormonal, it's a derivative of vitamin A
 
ReyMan

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It's not hormonal, it's a derivative of vitamin A
Although I'm sure there are some hormonal effects, because when I was on it, I got crazy mood swings, like from depression to rage
 

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